Upside Down Clownfish

[TingeOfGinge]

Hi all,
Unfortunately, one of my orange storm clownfish is looking pretty bad. This weekend, he was looking a little sluggish and wasn't near his clownfish buddy like usual. I just attributed it to clownfish things, as the pair kinda liked to orient themselves funny ways. I wasn't home yesterday, but I came home from work today, and he was mostly drifting around upside down and dropping to the sandbed occasionally. I know he probably won't make it, but I want to give him a chance.

I went out and bought a quick and dirty 10 gallon QT setup from my LFS, as well as some Seachem Cupramine at the owner's best guess of a recommendation.

Background:
Got this fish as a pair about a month ago during a 4th of July sale. The tank itself has been setup since June. See my build thread for more info on the tank. He and his buddy are both juveniles, maybe about 3/4th of an inch long. They usually hang out together, but nip at each other or fight sometimes. He is the smaller of the two by a small margin. They frequent the top-left corner of my tank and are often swimming up and down the glass, swimming in one place against the current, or brushing up against the side of the HOB.

All-important parameters:
Nothing looks out of wack. Numbers are as follows (all Salifert):
Nitrate: ~15ppm
Phosphate: ~0.15ppm (Nyos)
Alk: 9.9dKH
Salinity: 1.026sg
Calcium: 375ppm

Current symptoms:
Floating upside down. Breathing about 2 times per second. While upside down, does not move at all other than breathing. Has quick spurts of movement where he swims somewhat normally, though still tending to be upside down. Nothing odd on his skin that I can tell. Skin looks clean and there doesn't appear to be a film or anything. No damage to fins. Not bloated (if anything, a little skinny). Doesn't seem to be eating, but also doesn't move all that much, so getting food may be a challenge. I added some brine shrimp to the tank in case he's hungry. Tank mates (another clown and a firefish) aren't showing any symptoms and corals and inverts seem happy

I guess my question is: is there anything else I should be doing? I have another clown, as well as a firefish, in the main tank, but I don't know if I should try to preemptively treat one or both of them. The firefish looks 100% okay, and the clown looks fine. Though like I said, both of the clowns have a history of not swimming around much and floating near the surface or up against things.

Thanks and I'll try to answer any questions the best I can!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi all,
Unfortunately, one of my orange storm clownfish is looking pretty bad. This weekend, he was looking a little sluggish and wasn't near his clownfish buddy like usual. I just attributed it to clownfish things, as the pair kinda liked to orient themselves funny ways. I wasn't home yesterday, but I came home from work today, and he was mostly drifting around upside down and dropping to the sandbed occasionally. I know he probably won't make it, but I want to give him a chance.

I went out and bought a quick and dirty 10 gallon QT setup from my LFS, as well as some Seachem Cupramine at the owner's best guess of a recommendation.

Background:
Got this fish as a pair about a month ago during a 4th of July sale. The tank itself has been setup since June. See my build thread for more info on the tank. He and his buddy are both juveniles, maybe about 3/4th of an inch long. They usually hang out together, but nip at each other or fight sometimes. He is the smaller of the two by a small margin. They frequent the top-left corner of my tank and are often swimming up and down the glass, swimming in one place against the current, or brushing up against the side of the HOB.

All-important parameters:
Nothing looks out of wack. Numbers are as follows (all Salifert):
Nitrate: ~15ppm
Phosphate: ~0.15ppm (Nyos)
Alk: 9.9dKH
Salinity: 1.026sg
Calcium: 375ppm

Current symptoms:
Floating upside down. Breathing about 2 times per second. While upside down, does not move at all other than breathing. Has quick spurts of movement where he swims somewhat normally, though still tending to be upside down. Nothing odd on his skin that I can tell. Skin looks clean and there doesn't appear to be a film or anything. No damage to fins. Not bloated (if anything, a little skinny). Doesn't seem to be eating, but also doesn't move all that much, so getting food may be a challenge. I added some brine shrimp to the tank in case he's hungry. Tank mates (another clown and a firefish) aren't showing any symptoms and corals and inverts seem happy

I guess my question is: is there anything else I should be doing? I have another clown, as well as a firefish, in the main tank, but I don't know if I should try to preemptively treat one or both of them. The firefish looks 100% okay, and the clown looks fine. Though like I said, both of the clowns have a history of not swimming around much and floating near the surface or up against things.

Thanks and I'll try to answer any questions the best I can!

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

How does the clown look this morning, I think it may have passed, it looked pretty bad....

All I can see in the picture is an odd bruise at the base of the second dorsal fin on the right side. Is that visible on the left side as well?

Breathing at 120 gill beats per minute is a bit elevated, I start to worry when they breath faster than about 80 or 90.

Did you ever see either clown release white mucus feces?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Fish looks to be moribund and may not eat or swim normal going forward

 

[TingeOfGinge]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

How does the clown look this morning, I think it may have passed, it looked pretty bad....

All I can see in the picture is an odd bruise at the base of the second dorsal fin on the right side. Is that visible on the left side as well?

Breathing at 120 gill beats per minute is a bit elevated, I start to worry when they breath faster than about 80 or 90.

Did you ever see either clown release white mucus feces?

I wasn't able to check this morning (not much I'd be able to do anyways), but I also don't have much hope. I'm going to check after work today.
Yes, that spot is visible on both sides and I think it's just part of his coloration.
I honestly haven't ever seen either of them poop, so I can't answer that question.

 

[MnFish1]

Update when you can. are the other fishes doing ok?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I wasn't able to check this morning (not much I'd be able to do anyways), but I also don't have much hope. I'm going to check after work today.
Yes, that spot is visible on both sides and I think it's just part of his coloration.
I honestly haven't ever seen either of them poop, so I can't answer that question.

Sorry! It may be that you need to go into "damage control" and try to figure out what's going on to help the other fish in case this is an infectious issue. To help with that, we really need more information. This post explains all that:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...sease-treatment-and-diagnosis-section.775547/

 

[TingeOfGinge]

Update when you can. are the other fishes doing ok?

I just checked in on him, and surprisingly, he's still alive. Not doing much better though.
Here's a video to the sick fish:

Again, there's nothing obvious externally wrong with him. No film on the skin, no injuries that I can tell, nothing that looks like a parasite.

It doesn't look like any of my other fish are affected. The firefish is definitely acting normal. The other clown seems fine, but like I said, they've always swam kinda weird. I have a video of the presumably healthy fish here

 

[TingeOfGinge]

Sorry! It may be that you need to go into "damage control" and try to figure out what's going on to help the other fish in case this is an infectious issue. To help with that, we really need more information. This post explains all that:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...sease-treatment-and-diagnosis-section.775547/

I agree, but since I have no idea what's wrong, I don't really know what to do with any of my other fish. I believe I've provided most, if not all information asked for in the thread you linked (other than inverts and corals all look super happy) and I just posted a couple of videos. I've read through a few "sick clownfish" threads as well, and all of them had some kind of other symptoms (white poop, film on the skin and face, spots from parasites/ich, etc), where my guy has nothing. I don't know if a freshwater bath would be helpful in case it's parasites, but I've already put him in copper, which I think should also be effective. Let me know if there's any more info or easy tests you can think of that I should try out.

 

[TingeOfGinge]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

How does the clown look this morning, I think it may have passed, it looked pretty bad....

All I can see in the picture is an odd bruise at the base of the second dorsal fin on the right side. Is that visible on the left side as well?

Breathing at 120 gill beats per minute is a bit elevated, I start to worry when they breath faster than about 80 or 90.

Did you ever see either clown release white mucus feces?

I just re-read your message, and I got dorsal mixed up with ventral. I can't get a good pic right now since I don't want to mess with him and stress him out any more than I have too, but that circle on the dorsal fin is actually just an orange spot on the other side. So I'm still pretty sure it's part of the coloration

 

[Marco_99]

It sucks, but he’s cooked. Personally I’d call it and send the little guy home

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I agree, but since I have no idea what's wrong, I don't really know what to do with any of my other fish. I believe I've provided most, if not all information asked for in the thread you linked (other than inverts and corals all look super happy) and I just posted a couple of videos. I've read through a few "sick clownfish" threads as well, and all of them had some kind of other symptoms (white poop, film on the skin and face, spots from parasites/ich, etc), where my guy has nothing. I don't know if a freshwater bath would be helpful in case it's parasites, but I've already put him in copper, which I think should also be effective. Let me know if there's any more info or easy tests you can think of that I should try out.

One key point is that the invertebrates are all doing well. You can then typically rule out any water quality issues (I think you’ve probably done that, but this helps confirm that).

The dark spot I mentioned was in the first picture, there is a darkened region on the back, between the dorsal and the tail fin. I couldn’t tell if that was as shadow, but there is an unknown bruising disease that can cause mortality in clownfish - but it doesn’t seem highly, if at all contagious.

 

[TingeOfGinge]

More updates:
Even more surprising than yesterday, the sick fish is still alive. He seems a little more active, but is definitely breathing more heavily and with gills flaring more. I'm using a sponge filter in the hospital tank, so it shouldn't be an aeration issue. I also noticed that he isn't as upside down, and more flat on his side. He also seemed to eat a pellet or two when I put it next to him in the tank, though it was hard to tell for sure. His coloration has changed a little, with it looking like he's a little more pink near the head and near the rear dorsal fin. The final thing I noticed was that there appears to be a more opaque white spot that stands out a bit from his normal white coloration. A picture is attached, with the spot circled in blue in the second pic:

I dosed more Cupramine per the instructions, but I don't know if that'll have any effect since I still have no idea what the cause of all this is.

I know he's probably still going to be a goner, but I would like to find out what's wrong with him so I can save the other clown in case he starts showing any symptoms. Speaking of the other clown, I still don't know if he's fine and just being a weird clownfish or if he's starting to show symptoms. He still stays near the top of the tank most of the time, and I can't tell if he's having trouble staying down or if he just likes the top of the tank. I didn't get home until after dark today, so I had to turn the lights on, which might explain his behavior. I got another video of him, so let me know what you guys think: normal or not? He's not at the top in this video like he is most of the time, but it still shows his bobbing-like swimming motion. I turned all of the flow off to make sure he just wasn't fighting current or anything

 

[christinna77]

I'd still add a regular airstone turned on max. Sponge filter may not create enough surface agitation to oxygenate the water properly, which could explain the fish swimming at the top and breathing heavily.

Also, double check ammonia levels didn't creep up.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

More updates:
Even more surprising than yesterday, the sick fish is still alive. He seems a little more active, but is definitely breathing more heavily and with gills flaring more. I'm using a sponge filter in the hospital tank, so it shouldn't be an aeration issue. I also noticed that he isn't as upside down, and more flat on his side. He also seemed to eat a pellet or two when I put it next to him in the tank, though it was hard to tell for sure. His coloration has changed a little, with it looking like he's a little more pink near the head and near the rear dorsal fin. The final thing I noticed was that there appears to be a more opaque white spot that stands out a bit from his normal white coloration. A picture is attached, with the spot circled in blue in the second pic:

I dosed more Cupramine per the instructions, but I don't know if that'll have any effect since I still have no idea what the cause of all this is.

I know he's probably still going to be a goner, but I would like to find out what's wrong with him so I can save the other clown in case he starts showing any symptoms. Speaking of the other clown, I still don't know if he's fine and just being a weird clownfish or if he's starting to show symptoms. He still stays near the top of the tank most of the time, and I can't tell if he's having trouble staying down or if he just likes the top of the tank. I didn't get home until after dark today, so I had to turn the lights on, which might explain his behavior. I got another video of him, so let me know what you guys think: normal or not? He's not at the top in this video like he is most of the time, but it still shows his bobbing-like swimming motion. I turned all of the flow off to make sure he just wasn't fighting current or anything

I found the link to where I discuss the clownfish bruising issue:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/clownfish-bruising-lesion.936964/

 

[TingeOfGinge]

I'd still add a regular airstone turned on max. Sponge filter may not create enough surface agitation to oxygenate the water properly, which could explain the fish swimming at the top and breathing heavily.

Also, double check ammonia levels didn't creep up.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but the fish that is currently swimming at the top is the supposedly healthy one in the main tank. Everything else in that tank is doing fine. I'm not sure if it's breathing normally or not, since it's tiny and always moving so it's hard to get a good look at the gills.

Back in the hospital tank, there's quite a lot of surface agitation from the sponge filter, but I can try to add more if you think that'd help.
I also added an established rock from the main tank, so I'd be surprised if ammonia was an isuue. I haven't fed more than a few pellets anyway. I don't have an ammonia test on hand to 100% confirm.

 

[TingeOfGinge]

I found the link to where I discuss the clownfish bruising issue:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/clownfish-bruising-lesion.936964/

Thanks for the link. That may explain the new pink color showing through, though it's much more subtle and less localized than anything I saw in that thread.
I'm still pretty sure that dark spot you keep mentioning is just the other side of a blsck/orange spot in the coloration that's showing through. There's no other obvious discoloration other than the white dot I pointed out yesterday