Velvet or bacterial?

[mindme]

I have a Naso Tang that has been in QT since Wednesday. He hasn't eaten since I got him.

Until today, I saw no symptoms. Other than he seems to be happier with the lights out, and stays at the bottom when they are on. This makes me lean towards velvet. Today he is covered. But on his stomach it is kind of blotchy, and he has not scratched at himself even a little, which makes me lean away from velvet and toward bacterial.

Or could it be flukes dying? I am currently treating the QT with General Cure. Today is the 3rd day of it, and I put in the 2nd dose earlier today.

I'd really like to be able to get a positive ID on it so I know what to treat it with. Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

In all three pictures the fish’s mouth is wide open... is it breathing that way? Is it breathing fast? The pectoral fin also seems cloudy.

What are the water quality parameters?

My concern is that GC isn’t a primary treatment for velvet. I always start quarantine with copper first, as ich and velvet kill faster than flukes do.

Jay

 

[mindme]

In all three pictures the fish’s mouth is wide open... is it breathing that way? Is it breathing fast? The pectoral fin also seems cloudy.

What are the water quality parameters?

My concern is that GC isn’t a primary treatment for velvet. I always start quarantine with copper first, as ich and velvet kill faster than flukes do.

Jay

Yes, he pretty much keeps his mouth open all the time, decently fast but I have a hard time telling with fish to be honest.

I have copper available, but I didn't want to dose until I was sure what it was.

Water is fine, no ammonia etc.

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yes, he pretty much keeps his mouth open all the time, decently fast but I have a hard time telling with fish to be honest.

I have copper available, but I didn't want to dose until I was sure what it was.

Water is fine, no ammonia etc.

Thanks for the quick reply.

When you say water is fine, can you be specific ? These answers Will be Helpful

Ammonia -
Nitrate -
ph -
salinity -
Temperature -
Phosphate -
Are you using RO water or tap water from faucet -
Age of Tank -

 

[mindme]

I pretty much have meds for everyth

When you say water is fine, can you be specific ? These answers Will be Helpful

Ammonia -
Nitrate -
ph -
salinity -
Temperature -
Phosphate -
Are you using RO water or tap water from faucet -
Age of Tank -

Ammonia - 0, using seachem badge.
Nitrate - 0
ph - 8.2
salinity - 1.025
Temperature - 79
Phosphate - 0
Are you using RO water or tap water from faucet - RODI
Age of Tank - It's a QT. It's been setup for little over a week.

I have the meds for treating everything, but since copper limits some meds I wanted to make sure I identified it correctly. I have 4 QT tanks and have treated for velvet before.

Thanks for the help.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I pretty much have meds for everyth


Ammonia - 0, using seachem badge.
Nitrate - 0
ph - 8.2
salinity - 1.025
Temperature - 79
Phosphate - 9
Are you using RO water or tap water from faucet - RODI
Age of Tank - It's a QT. It's been setup for little over a week.

I have the meds for treating everything, but since copper limits some meds I wanted to make sure I identified it correctly. I have 4 QT tanks and have treated for velvet before.

Thanks for the help.

Mouth open, you may have low oxygen . phos is high ( < .05). drop salinity to 1.024. . . . Unfortunately, I and many experienced reefers have no use for test strips, badges as they work for fresh and saltwater ( And they rarely work) and personally API test kits are for the birds.
I agree with Jay that general cure for other than Brroklynella will have no effect on the tang. Give the tang a freshwater dip for 4-5 mins to offer temporary relief if it is parasitical, and swich to copper/copperbased but dose at 75-80-% of recommended
IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE COPPER - MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A RELIABLE COPPER TEST KIT

 

[mindme]

Mouth open, you may have low oxygen . phos is high ( < .05). drop salinity to 1.024. . . . Unfortunately, I and many experienced reefers have no use for test strips, badges as they work for fresh and saltwater ( And they rarely work) and personally API test kits are for the birds.
I agree with Jay that general cure for other than Brroklynella will have no effect on the tang. Give the tang a freshwater dip for 4-5 mins to offer temporary relief if it is parasitical, and swich to copper/copperbased but dose at 75-80-% of recommended
IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE COPPER - MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A RELIABLE COPPER TEST KIT

I have a sponge filter going with air going into it. I have a tiny powerhead that has air hose that can be attached to draw in more air, I can try to hook it up. His mouth moves, but it never really closes completely.

I mistyped the phosphates, it's 0. It's only had a bioload on it since Wednesday.

GC won't help for flukes? Do you think it's velvet?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have a sponge filter going with air going into it. I have a tiny powerhead that has air hose that can be attached to draw in more air, I can try to hook it up. His mouth moves, but it never really closes completely.

I mistyped the phosphates, it's 0. It's only had a bioload on it since Wednesday.

GC won't help for flukes? Do you think it's velvet?

GC wont help for velvet. Flukes are not really true flukes but are actually parasitic flatworms belonging to the class of Monogeans. With flukes, fish generally are lethargic, swim near the water surface, develop clamped fins, hide in the corner of the aquarium or behind rocks, lose appetite, shake their head, flash. dart, or scratch. They may exhibit yawning type breathing, cloudy eyes and loss of color.
best treatment for flukes is PraziPro (Praziquantel) and yes. . General cure

Can you provide clearer pics of the skin under white light. A freshwater dip previously mentioned will confirm flukes if any as they should fall off fish and you will see them on bottom of preferably a dark bucket which represent sesame seeds.

 

[mindme]

GC wont help for velvet. Flukes are not really true flukes but are actually parasitic flatworms belonging to the class of Monogeans. With flukes, fish generally are lethargic, swim near the water surface, develop clamped fins, hide in the corner of the aquarium or behind rocks, lose appetite, shake their head, flash. dart, or scratch. They may exhibit yawning type breathing, cloudy eyes and loss of color.
best treatment for flukes is PraziPro (Praziquantel) and yes. . General cure

Can you provide clearer pics of the skin under white light. A freshwater dip previously mentioned will confirm flukes if any as they should fall off fish and you will see them on bottom of preferably a dark bucket which represent sesame seeds.

I'm getting a bucket ready for a fw dip right now. It's coming up to temp. I don't have a darker one, so I won't be able to confirm easily by looking at the bucket, but hopefully some come off the fish and that will tell.

The symptoms you mention for flukes really sounds the same, minus the scratching etc, which is also a sign of velvet. Today is 48+ hours of GC, so I'm hoping it's flukes that are dying. He had no spots prior to today. Goes to the top of the tank, except when lights are on. I have LED lights real close to the water line, so that might have something to do with it, rather than being light sensitive due to velvet.

It's got me really confused on diagnosing what the issue is. I guess it could technically be both.

I went ahead started some copper(cupramine) in the tank. In 48 hours will be the end of the 4th day of GC, and I'll either water change as planned and put in some cuprisorb, or water change while increasing the copper dosage to strength.

Thanks for the help.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm getting a bucket ready for a fw dip right now. It's coming up to temp. I don't have a darker one, so I won't be able to confirm easily by looking at the bucket, but hopefully some come off the fish and that will tell.

The symptoms you mention for flukes really sounds the same, minus the scratching etc, which is also a sign of velvet. Today is 48+ hours of GC, so I'm hoping it's flukes that are dying. He had no spots prior to today. Goes to the top of the tank, except when lights are on. I have LED lights real close to the water line, so that might have something to do with it, rather than being light sensitive due to velvet.

It's got me really confused on diagnosing what the issue is. I guess it could technically be both.

I went ahead started some copper(cupramine) in the tank. In 48 hours will be the end of the 4th day of GC, and I'll either water change as planned and put in some cuprisorb, or water change while increasing the copper dosage to strength.

Thanks for the help.

If it is clear bucket/container. place black paper or similar underneath. Flashlight should also pick it up

 

[mindme]

If it is clear bucket/container. place black paper or similar underneath. Flashlight should also pick it up

Semi-clear ice cream bucket. I think that might still work, good idea. Thanks.

 

[mindme]

Not sure the FW dip was a good idea. He did normal while in the FW for the most part, a little excessive swimming around on occasion, but just the usual freakout overall.

But when I put him back in the tank he went even more ballistic. Swimming around at the very top of the water flapping around etc. Then he calmed down, and swam around a little but would bump into the pvc pipes. Now he's laying on his side in the back corner.

There is a tailspot blenny in that tank also, he is perfectly fine.

There were some little dots in the bucket after, but I don't know if it was flukes or not. The spots on him are still there, but after reading further I'm starting to think they are stress related and I've just made things worse.