Water Paramaters During Cycling

[DominicGates]

So my girlfriend and I are starting our first saltwater tank. It is a 40 Gallon Tank with a shallow bed of live sand and 25lbs of dry rock. We added a small chunk of live rock that she got from a coworker just to help with the cycle and we have been ghost feeding and using MicroBacter7. We test the water daily for Salinity, pH, Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates and the temperature averages about 78 degrees Fahrenheit.

Today is day 13 of cycling the tank and we are having trouble reading the test results because the colors we come up with don't seem to match the test kit color cards. Our Nitrites and Nitrates seem to be spiking but our ammonia isn't showing any signs of changing at all (have gotten about the same reading for the past 5-6 days). The pH and salinity are fairy stable so we aren't as concerned with those at this time. Does this look like where we should be around this time in our cycle?

Any ideas or advice welcome. TIA

 

[nickenayat]

Maybe add some ATM colony do a water Change and don't add anymore food. Could also think about adding some more live rock or brightwell aquatic bio cubes for more biological filtration

 

[roberthu526]

Your tank is cycled based on the nitrate reading. You probably fed too much food causing ammonia and nitrite to be so high. But it's also an indicator that your biological filtration is still weak. Do a big water change and add less food.

 

[DominicGates]

Okay, so do a big water change, continue to ghost feed. I should keep adding the microbacter7 because that should be a good source of nitrifying bacteria correct? And then just keep monitoring levels? I know ammonia and nitrites need to be absolute 0 before it's safe to add fish. And nitrate should be low to moderate levels?

 

[cpschult]

Your tank is cycled based on the nitrate reading. You probably fed too much food causing ammonia and nitrite to be so high. But it's also an indicator that your biological filtration is still weak. Do a big water change and add less food.

Woah woah tank is not cycled. Any ammonia and nitrite still detectable will kill fish.

I'd stop feeding and see how quickly the ammonia drops. Having nitrate and nitrite means you have the bacteria in place for your filter like Robert mentioned. I had same issue a few weeks ago, now it's time for the ammonia and nitrite fixing bacteria to reproduce more.

 

[roberthu526]

Woah woah tank is not cycled. Any ammonia and nitrite still detectable will kill fish.

I'd stop feeding and see how quickly the ammonia drops. Having nitrate and nitrite means you have the bacteria in place for your filter like Robert mentioned. I had same issue a few weeks ago, now it's time for the ammonia and nitrite fixing bacteria to reproduce more.

Calm down. The tank is cycled or there would be no nitrate. I didn't suggest adding fish did I? In stead I suggested doing a big water change and feed less. I also mentioned that the biological filtration is still weak.
If he continues to feed the tank like he used to and waits for all the ammonia and nitrite to convert into nitrate then by the time there is no detectable ammonia his nitrate level will be through the roof. He will end up doing a big water change anyway.
Biological filtration doesn't mean no ammonia. It's about building the balance between the beneficial bacteria and ammonia produced by fish and waste.

 

[DominicGates]

Do we agree that I should do a water change to remove some of the decaying food?

 

[cpschult]

Why do a water change? Wait until ammonia isn't detectable. That detectable ammonia is only helping the cycle.. That's why it's recommended to do a water change after ammonia is 0.. To remove nitrates.

 

[roberthu526]

Just look at his readings. All this parameters are almost off the charts already. I don't understand the point of waiting to convert all ammonia and nitrite to nitrate. If you keep feeding big amounts of food the water is going to be totally foul before you see 0 ammonia... you can probably smell it before entering the room...

 

[cpschult]

Yes, re: the point where I also said stop feeding.

Doing a water change now doesn't make sense.

Edit: Well, you have at least two options. Either will work. Just keep an eye on ammonia and nitrite when you start to add fish. I had issue where feeding twice a day caused ammonia and I had to use prime and cut back
To once every othe day.

 

[tankstudy]

1) Stop the ghost feeding for now.

2) Do a water change to bring your nitrites under 5 ppm. Once nitrites tend to get above 5 ppm, the cycle generally stalls causing ammonia to build up. Its generally what causes you to see the same water parameters for several days to weeks when using bottled bacteria. Its a very common mistake people make when using bottled bacteria. I have done it before myself until I checked with Dr. Tim who also has a bottled bacteria product.

 

[Brew12]

If it were my tank, I would do a 50% water change if possible. I would do this for 2 reasons.

First, you are going to need to do several water changes anyway to get your nitrates down. No reason to not start doing it now.

Second, studies I have read show that nitrifying bacteria reproduction can slow at ammonia levels > 4 ppm. You may not be there yet, but you are close. Keeping your ammonia this high could actually slow down your cycle. This is why Dr. Tim recommends dosing up to 2ppm.

I agree with stopping ghost feedings. The problem with ghost feedings is that you never really know how much ammonia you are adding to your tank.

If you live near an ace hardware, I would pick up a bottle of pure ammonia. Otherwise I would order some of Dr Tims ammonia.

Once your ammonia is almost zero, dose the pure ammonia up to 2ppm. If the ammonia and nitrite are gone within 24 hours you are good to start adding fish.

 

[DominicGates]

Thanks for your reply @Brew12 very easy to read. Does the ammonia you buy at Ace have dosing directions? Adding pure ammonia is just to test the system is that correct?

 

[Brew12]

Thanks for your reply @Brew12 very easy to read. Does the ammonia you buy at Ace have dosing directions? Adding pure ammonia is just to test the system is that correct?

Glad to help. The stuff from Ace wont have directions, but if you order Dr Tims ammonia, I believe it is one drop per gallon. If you get ammonia from Ace you will have to do some math unfortunately. If you go that route, we can help with figuring out the dosage.

Yes, the pure ammonia is the best way to determine where your tank is in the cycle. With ghost feeding, you never know how fast it is decaying or how much ammonia is being released. If you dose it, there is no doubt. Odds are pretty good since you are seeing high nitrates that when ammonia and nitrite go to zero you would be fine to add fish. Dosing ammonia removes any doubt.

 

[DominicGates]

@Brew12 I'm going to get ammonia today! We did a pretty pretty big water change and our ammonia has been at .25ppm for the last two days. Should I go ahead and dose ammonia and see the results? Also we are starting to get a diatom bloom, and our nitrites are about 1ish ppm and nitrates are at 20ppm.

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12 I'm going to get ammonia today! We did a pretty pretty big water change and our ammonia has been at .25ppm for the last two days. Should I go ahead and dose ammonia and see the results? Also we are starting to get a diatom bloom, and our nitrites are about 1ish ppm and nitrates are at 20ppm.

I would wait until ammonia drops to zero before dosing more.

 

[Thor2j]

You need more live rock as well.

 

[DominicGates]

You need more live rock as well.

I was told that dry rock would pretty much double once it cycled and got bacteria and what not. Also we got a piece of live to seed the dry and lots of dry corals. I'm not really sure there's room for more lol. We also have some rubble in our refugium.

 

[Brew12]

I was told that dry rock would pretty much double once it cycled and got bacteria and what not. Also we got a piece of live to seed the dry and lots of dry corals. I'm not really sure there's room for more lol. We also have some rubble in our refugium.

I love the scape! Looks great!

You are a little light on the rock department. But, for my tank size, so am I. You just need to keep that in mind when I comes to stocking your tank. More rock = more surfaces for bacteria to attach = ability to support more fish. As long as you keep the number of fish reasonable you will have more than enough rock.

 

[DominicGates]

I love the scape! Looks great!

You are a little light on the rock department. But, for my tank size, so am I. You just need to keep that in mind when I comes to stocking your tank. More rock = more surfaces for bacteria to attach = ability to support more fish. As long as you keep the number of fish reasonable you will have more than enough rock.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-stocking-list.272124/

Here it is, I'm hoping I'm okay lol my cycle is already screwy enough!