What fish should i get for cycling saltwater

[mijan]

I think BRS knows what they are doing

 

[Celestion]

It's common knowledge now , almost anything is better than live fish lol , in the 80's they actually sold damsels as cycle victims

 

[V A R I A N T]

Simply pointing out for clarification and nothing else. OP asked what fish to use for cycling, period. No discussion of bottled bacteria or any other supportive solution to convert ammonia.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Simply pointing out for clarification and nothing else. OP asked what fish to use for cycling, period. No discussion of bottled bacteria or any other supportive solution to convert ammonia.

On the bright side...OP asked about what fish could be used for cycling as opposed to unwanted babies or puppies.

 

[brandon429]

why is it so hard to get a simple link where someone has seen an owner of a digital ammonia kit posting about ammonia noncontrol

I have to get the passion writeups without links>

it replaces thought, consideration and effort to simply not show what's being touted as a standout risk.

nobody is going to post a single example, that's really quite strong evidence to the contrary I think.


if our hobby is dealing is a continued loss scenario for using fish with bottle bac, the directions on the bottle bac say you can use with fish->

then I'm expecting five or ten links of failed fish in cycles with bottle bac.


I bet we get zero, because this is emotion/not reality.

reality is that bottle bac cycling requires no thought, it's already been done for you.

applying what Jay shows is required to keep fish alive requires thought and prep and wait times, that's for sure.


can anyone reading in total anger here just simply find us one thread here in the new tanks forum where fish didn't live when added, can I see just one example?

today alone 10+ new examples will be added to the disease forum, I want to compare rates of expression among the two data sets. I bet this request really offends someone lol.

 

[brandon429]

Bogdan

When you do a fish in cycle with bottle bac, 100 page bottle bac thread studies show you the bacteria work immediately in suspension. that's why every search on the matter shows normal-acting fish and an angry crowd with digital pitchforks made of sugar glass.

has anyone here read Dr. Reefs bottle bac thread, which studies the ammonia resolve time of all common brands> I have read it.

the reality is, the disease forum discusses vectoring and that's what you're doing wrong by cycling unprepped fish.

now to really agitate the crowd, we could say that using pre quarantined fish in a bottle bac dry start reef was kosher since ammonia will be controlled, and vetoring is as low as possible


let's let them digest a few seneye studies first before introducing the scary stuff.


bottle bac cycles have no more incidence of disease expression at month eight than do any other form of cycling. all forms of cycling without direct disease preps are causing massive loss rates in the hobby, they're just delayed a few months. re: the disease forum trending anyone can read.

cycling is merely about ammonia control, that happens as soon as you tilt the bottle's contents into the water. I'm not making it up, as we're searching for links maybe someone will find Dr. Reef's study.

he did one using six seneye machines, I'm quoting from that one.

 

[brandon429]

mijan​

thank you. these guys have been making up stuff for about 20 straight years. I'm talking forum posters, not brs. BRS is fairly accurate in relaying cycling data.


**even BRS did not mention disease preps


all reef tank display cycling should involve fish disease prep as the #1 strategy, ammonia control requires 0% thought or effort or coaxing. We tailor our cycling evolution to match where the loss rates are


and no loss rates are in the first few days they're delayed, until disease sets in, 2 readers here who were searching for links just now can see this trend.



the reason to move on from madeup cycling fears is because that's killing fish by exclusion of any truth

it's an implication that the tank is safe for fish once ammonia and nitrite are zero-that's not true, Jay's forum shows it every page for ten years.

once we direct folks to Jay's fish disease forum, and tell them that's required in cycling, loss rates will drop-simple as that.


however

if we keep using fish from non prepped sources, even after a legit cycle, loss rates will skyrocket.

disease preps are simply required.

 

[Big Smelly fish]

Each response on this topis is incorrect, I mean literally 100% of them.

not that you shold start with a fish, but ammonia burning isn't in play. that's fear made up; relayed among non seneye owners.

I realize everyone cares about fish but you're relaying to him a risk that has no data


let me ask it this way: which forum on this site has the most fish death

is it in the new tanks forum, where they're all cycling? is it in the disease forum?

can anyone here find a cycling tank example for a reef display where the fish were not carried and acted just fine when added with bottle bac?

old cycling science allows us to make up things that no seneye owner has ever reported, free ammonia burning a fish when bottle bac is used

anyone who watches seneye + bottle bac study threads see ammonia burning is never in play, for anyone. by continuing on cycling lore that is untrue, we kill more fish by never directing a new tanker to the sole forum on this site that shows how to disease prep a tank. aim the concern correctly: nobody has burned a fish with ammonia during cycling. they die eight months later of crypto no matter how you cycle-if you skip preps.

nearly all entrants in the disease help forum properly cycled their tank with ammonia and no fish.

So Brandon, every body is wrong and you hold the magic key and have all the answers. Pretty arrogant to come on and say everything everyone wrote is 100% wrong. Not one person was incorrect in the information they gave. People have done cycling with fish for years and myself included. But over the years and without for just as many years. All were successful for the most part. It’s one thing to come on and post your opinion but another to come on and post what others say is incorrect. I’ve notice this in just about every post of yours.

 

[killer2001]

You can successfully cycle a tank with fish using bottle bacteria, but I think the main argument is why take the risk? Especially for beginners its just a bad idea all around IMO as mistakes are likely to be made.

 

[brandon429]

killer

I understand that sentiment

but there aren't any links showing that outcome. these guys keep writing passion post response when one or two links would make the case so much better.

it becomes evident when we search for only 3-4 minutes

delayed disease risk is where the sole risk is, it's all you/we/anyone can find for loss examples.

I know of two recent day 1 clownfish loss examples the hungry crowd would love to pounce on but since nobody is bothering to link as they emote we won't be seeing those. they're on nano-reef.com and we're discussing them on the main page lol/hint/

and when we visited with the party in question, he was 2+ hour floating an opened bag rolled back at the top of his tank. ammonia was killing the fish, but not from inside the actual tank. we then had him add new fish to the exact same water, netted over without 2 hour float cycle, they're fine.



there are no examples of a failed bottle bac cycle in reefing. that is a very very very hard bit of data for old school cycling proponents to digest, they'd rather shoot the messenger.

nobody here reading would have discerned that person was bad acclimating, they'd have said it was lack of bacteria from the start. old cycling science literally cannot troubleshoot any form of fish loss at all, it's all hyperfocused on bacteria and even that isn't using any decent ammonia meters. old cycling science says api .25 means fish are burning, yet that's what 90% of today's reefs read on api at year 4/ check api trending posts. if ammonia isn't zero, old cycling science says fish are burning.

wrong

 

[killer2001]

I think the response is valid as people more than likely have experienced ammonia burn on their fish or heard horror stories from others that dealt with ammonia burn starting up new tanks.

Perhaps in modern times with bottled bac its dummy proof now (that I do not know). Maybe these ammonia burn / fish death stories are from people throwing in a bunch of fish at once with no bottled bacteria at all?

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

So Brandon, every body is wrong and you hold the magic key and have all the answers. Pretty arrogant to come on and say everything everyone wrote is 100% wrong. Not one person was incorrect in the information they gave. People have done cycling with fish for years and myself included. But over the years and without for just as many years. All were successful for the most part. It’s one thing to come on and post your opinion but another to come on and post what others say is incorrect. I’ve notice this in just about every post of yours.

Kinda why i put him on ignore. I am not sure why..but he likes to play the contrarian to rile people up.

 

[Manny’s Reef]

killer

I understand that sentiment

but there aren't any links showing that outcome. these guys keep writing passion post response when one or two links would make the case so much better.

it becomes evident when we search for only 3-4 minutes

delayed disease risk is where the sole risk is, it's all you/we/anyone can find for loss examples.

I know of two recent day 1 clownfish loss examples the hungry crowd would love to pounce on but since nobody is bothering to link as they emote we won't be seeing those. they're on nano-reef.com and we're discussing them on the main page lol/hint/

and when we visited with the party in question, he was 2+ hour floating an opened bag rolled back at the top of his tank. ammonia was killing the fish, but not from inside the actual tank. we then had him add new fish to the exact same water, netted over without 2 hour float cycle, they're fine.



there are no examples of a failed bottle bac cycle in reefing. that is a very very very hard bit of data for old school cycling proponents to digest, they'd rather shoot the messenger.

nobody here reading would have discerned that person was bad acclimating, they'd have said it was lack of bacteria from the start. old cycling science literally cannot troubleshoot any form of fish loss at all, it's all hyperfocused on bacteria and even that isn't using any decent ammonia meters. old cycling science says api .25 means fish are burning, yet that's what 90% of today's reefs read on api at year 4/ check api trending posts. if ammonia isn't zero, old cycling science says fish are burning.

wrong

So where are your links proving that ammonia burn in fish is not real? Just one. We want just one link. You "keep writing passion posts response when one or two links would make the case so much better."

Just one link. Where is the link? O link where are you? Please just one link. I passionately request a link proving ammonia burn is fake news.

Not these links either.

 

[brandon429]

We can make jokes in place of legit work ha ha agreed.

 

[brandon429]

do we even want to see the seneye study thread from Dr. Reef that shows the ammonia control times digitally from the top common brands or we just go full ignorance mode the whole way>cartoons and such

I'm so glad you don't routinely post on the actual work threads, what a distraction that'd be.

asking for links, any form of proof that an evaluator here has practice being truthful isn't riling up the crowd it's merely calling out the correct folks for incorrect cycling advice.

I knew you didn't have any, and that none were coming-two min scan of post history makes for a great card game.

 

[92Miata]

dupe

 

[92Miata]

It's incredibly frustrating watching the same old 30 year old nonsense be pushed on every newbie who steps through the door, and then see them pushing it on the next one.

Modern bacterial solutions are really good. And most of the people running multi-week bottled bacteria cycles are doing it against the advice of the manufacturer of that bacteria. Even Dr. Tim's tells you to pour the stuff in and add fish.

My method:

Biospira day 1.
First fish day 3.


There is never any measurable ammonia. There is no risk to fish.

I think BRS knows what they are doing

Yes. They're selling you 3 cents of ammonia for $4, a $49 ammonia checker, and a bunch of other unnecessary nonsense.

These are infomercials. They are designed to sell you things under the veneer of information.

 

[TheBear78]

Perhaps in modern times with bottled bac its dummy proof now (that I do not know). Maybe these ammonia burn / fish death stories are from people throwing in a bunch of fish at once with no bottled bacteria at all?

That's very much the impression that I get. There seem to be two ways to cycle, with fish and without.
Whether bottled bacteria is used or not doesn't stop the abuse as you're still treated like you just threw a couple of cheap fish into some tap water and crossed your fingers.

To the OP, read the thread here which runs through a big test that Dr Reef conducted on a few bottled bacteria brands that were available a few years ago.

FWIW, I had great success with a couple of Clownfish and ATM Colony.

 

[Manny’s Reef]

It's incredibly frustrating watching the same old 30 year old nonsense be pushed on every newbie who steps through the door, and then see them pushing it on the next one.

Modern bacterial solutions are really good. And most of the people running multi-week bottled bacteria cycles are doing it against the advice of the manufacturer of that bacteria. Even Dr. Tim's tells you to pour the stuff in and add fish.

My method:

Biospira day 1.
First fish day 3.


There is never any measurable ammonia. There is no risk to fish.

Yes. They're selling you 3 cents of ammonia for $4, a $49 ammonia checker, and a bunch of other unnecessary nonsense.

These are infomercials. They are designed to sell you things under the veneer of information.

I don't think that the comments are necessarily disagreeing here. Personally, I use bottled bac and am comfortable tossing fish in same day.

I think where this got derailed was where a member specifically stated that ammonia burn is not real, when the OP was asking about the best fish to cycle a tank with. There was initially no talk of bottled bac.

 

[brandon429]

Bio-spira works great

I just started a new tank a little over a week ago. I started with all dry rock and new sand. I added a bottle of Bio-Spira and put fish and coral the same day. Never saw any ammonia and fish and coral seem healthy.

www.reef2reef.com

there is an entire reef, fish corals and inverts on day 1 with dry rock and sand, with no lead up time and one dose of common bottle bac.


the exact thing being claimed not possible, which anyone can already see on the search returns they completed but don't want to mention

This is so readers can see how easy it is to simply find a link for a claim, it's easy if you actually spend time tracking real reef cycles. you'll have ten or twenty memorized for the call when needed vs getting really angry at being caught without some.

all examples of fish-in cycles with bottle bac are just that same way too.

*what became the challenge later on in that thread? ammonia?