What makes a Holy Grail ??

[VintageReefer]

@VintageReefer Incredible collection! When you have a new torch, what is your dip protocol currently? I have CoralRx, Restor, the Polyp Lab dip, pure potassium chloride, and hydrogen peroxide. I have moved to Polyp Lab or KCl for hard corals but still not sure what to do for LPS and euphillia.

I clean plug bases and torch trunks with hydrogen peroxide and a small paintbrush.

I don’t dip unless they look stressed. I use a torch product called Coral Infection Elimination. It’s a non pharmaceutical approach to fighting off bjd and sickness in early stages.

If I suspect or see pests, I use coral rx or revive

 

[VintageReefer]

How would one even refer to this without trade names.

hey bud, guess what I got?! A new torch!

What kind?

“It’s a mostly yellow torch with many tentacles that are speckled with purple marks, and teal green tips. Oh and some tentacles are solid purple and some are solid yellow”

Vs

“It’s a grafted tiger torch!”

 

[Lasse]

while you do need good lighting to retain the yellow shine, your not making anything show that doesn’t already exist.

In my opinion, this is wrong. Below I will explain my understanding of how it works.

Most of the colors we are talking about are caused by fluorescence - not primarily by reflection. Both fluorescence and reflection colors are based on proteins produced by the corals themselves. Most fluorescent proteins have a role as sunscreens and to change the spectrum inside the coral - creating wavelengths that are easier for the zooxanthellae to utilize. Since there are different proteins for different wavelengths, there is a certain elasticity in the gene pool of most clonal lines. This means that it is usually the spectrum of the light used that fine-tunes which proteins are produced and therefore which color we see from the fluorescence.

The fluorescence is always there - even in white light but it is a weak light source that is overwhelmed by the color of the reflected light if there is a lot of light in the 470 - 600 nm wavelength range.

The difference between the different "torches" that vintage reefers display may be individual variation among wild Euphyllia glabriscens rather than specific lines. Since our propagation of them consists of taking "cuttings" - not sexual reproduction - our fragments retain the original gene pool because they are the same individual. That is - retain the ability to get the same colors as the original. But if it does not get roughly the same spectrum as it got in the wild, it will slowly stop producing the same proteins - production will be focused on proteins that protect them in the new environment and that can change the colors we see.

Luckily for us, "white" LED light also contains a lot of the short wavelengths that the fluorescent proteins are primarily supposed to protect the coral animal from.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[VintageReefer]

The difference between the different "torches" that vintage reefers display may be individual variation among wild Euphyllia glabriscens rather than specific lines.

Why is torches in quotes they are all torches

I think we have a misunderstanding here. I do not argue they are different genetic/scientific species. Although from looking at growth and skeletal development, some are unique and may be an individual line. Majority are all the same species. However they have different traits that their new growth will retain as well. And that is what makes them individual. They will not change into something they don’t have. And you can not make one torch turn into another. Nothing will turn into a banana yellow torch unless it starts that way. I have yellow torch that started as 1 head almost 3 years ago and grew to 10 heads all identical. I frag these and they grow into more heads just like the original. All the offspring / new growth will look this way. And I grow it side by side with green torch that behaves the same. They are under the same lighting. The yellow does not become green. The green does not become yellow. They grow in these colors naturally and retain them under standard led lighting. Spectrum does not matter. I used blue only for 2 years. I used full spectrum with white daylight period for one year. The torches remain the same regardless.

 

[VintageReefer]

In my opinion, this is wrong. Below I will explain my understanding of how it works.

Most of the colors we are talking about are caused by fluorescence - not primarily by reflection. Both fluorescence and reflection colors are based on proteins produced by the corals themselves. Most fluorescent proteins have a role as sunscreens and to change the spectrum inside the coral - creating wavelengths that are easier for the zooxanthellae to utilize. Since there are different proteins for different wavelengths, there is a certain elasticity in the gene pool of most clonal lines. This means that it is usually the spectrum of the light used that fine-tunes which proteins are produced and therefore which color we see from the fluorescence.

The fluorescence is always there - even in white light but it is a weak light source that is overwhelmed by the color of the reflected light if there is a lot of light in the 470 - 600 nm wavelength range.

The difference between the different "torches" that vintage reefers display may be individual variation among wild Euphyllia glabriscens rather than specific lines. Since our propagation of them consists of taking "cuttings" - not sexual reproduction - our fragments retain the original gene pool because they are the same individual. That is - retain the ability to get the same colors as the original. But if it does not get roughly the same spectrum as it got in the wild, it will slowly stop producing the same proteins - production will be focused on proteins that protect them in the new environment and that can change the colors we see.

Luckily for us, "white" LED light also contains a lot of the short wavelengths that the fluorescent proteins are primarily supposed to protect the coral animal from.

Sincerely Lasse

there is no lighting spectrum out there that will turn a standard torches into these:

 

[VintageReefer]

My yellow torches are reflecting yellow and not fluorescing it. They are yellow in any spectrum

Examples:

Torch 1

Torch 2:

Torch 3:

The tip colors do have fluorescence and change in spectrum. The tentacles are yellow regardless of lighting. Sure some spectrum, such as blue only makes them “more yellow” but it is not a trick or illusions, the torches actually are yellow in white

 

[rowenaad]

as a non native english speaker, the names really doesnt matter, but the holy grail torch is one i couldnt pull the trigger the first time seeing it instore bcuz of the price tag, but its so shiny that i kept thinking about it everyday and revisits the store every week to see it until finally brought it home and i can now sleep happily. Hopefully i can keep it long

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

Dragon tamer at peak color. I had it side by side to a banana grail. It was 90% the same. I called it poor man’s banana grail. Only difference is the green is a little darker

I actually have the exact same situation. Actually think the tamers are better because the branch their heads unlike a clustering banana

 

[Lasse]

They are yellow in any spectrum

Are they yellow even during only blue light?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[VintageReefer]

Are they yellow even during only blue light?

Sincerely Lasse

Yes

Yellow under blue only. Yellow under full spectrum. Yellow under 14k led bars.

 

[Reef Puncher]

Yes, the name carries a higher price. But it’s not a meaningless name. It’s a type of torch with distinct characteristics, just like any other named coral. There’s attributes behind it. Just like a hellfire or Knicks or joker torch. Each one of these is a distinct type of torch, with identifiable characteristics.

Now, with holy grail torch, there are a lot of imposters and fakes. This is a situation where someone has an inexpensive bright green torch and throws “holy grail” in the name to try and get more money. A cotton candy torch for example is a cheaper torch, bright green, but has zero traces of yellow in the tentacles. These are sometimes mislabeled - intentionally or unintentionally, and sold as holy grail, for 3-5x the actual value/worth.

Holy grail should have yellow shine/shimmer/accents. It’s not a regular bright green torch

i have a cotton candy right next to my holy grail. the difference in color is pretty striking considering they are both green. its just the yellow hints really make the grail shimmer.

 

[Troylee]

“Holy grail” marketing phrase to get “top dollar” if you really wanted to put that phrase on something then it should be a old skool classic coral that’s not around any more such as pink panther acropora or purple monster, grafted simplex… the real Asd holy grail torch was the only one back then but it’s imported regularly now similar but not the same as the og but they get the name and the price tag which is crazy! Linage to a super rare piece from 20 years ago you could call a grail but nothing coming in today as there’s plenty more.

 

[Lasse]

Yes

Yellow under blue only.

If so - From where comes the yellow photons that the coral reflect? The definition of a reflecting colour is that a surface reflect these wave lengths that content this colour (in this case 565-590 nm) - there is no photons of that wavelength in only blue light!

If a coral is yellow during only blue light this yellow can only comes from fluorescence! The reason why it is yellow during white light is either that the coral is lacking reflecting colours over all or it has both fluorescence (in the yellow) and reflecting yellow proteins. The only way of knowing if the coral also content reflecting yellow proteins is to use monochrome light between 565-590 nm. If its yellow then - it content reflecting yellow pigment (proteins) as well as fluorescence (converting some more energy rich wavelengths to the more energy low 565 - 590 nm photons

Sincerely Lasse

 

[VintageReefer]

You can define it however you want. The point is, the coral is yellow regardless of lighting. White. Blue. 14k mix. The coral is yellow, grows yellow, and remains yellow.

I can take a yellow piece of plastic. It’s solid plastic. And yellow. And put it in the tank under blue light. It will be yellow.

We’ve gone off target here. The holy grail, is a torch with distinct attributes, that other torches do not have, and will not develop. Banana torch is the same way. A normal torch will not become banana torch or a holy grail, in our tanks, in our lifetime. If you can figure out a light spectrum that makes torches turn into grails and banana, then you can make a lot of money and I suggest you pursue it

 

[Lasse]

I can take a yellow piece of plastic. It’s solid plastic. And yellow. And put it in the tank under blue light. It will be yellow.

Do that and show it here. Dark in the room - no daylight present - only blue light. No yellow photons in a only blue light (or a light that miss the wave lengths around 565 - 590) and no yellow protons will be reflected because there are not any to reflect.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Nitrogencat]

The most expensive coral you can want

 

[Arkayology]

You are always searching for it, but will you ever find it?

 

[VintageReefer]

Do that and show it here. Dark in the room - no daylight present - only blue light. No yellow photons in a only blue light (or a light that miss the wave lengths around 565 - 590) and no yellow protons will be reflected because there are not any to reflect.

Sincerely Lasse

Sure, this will be the object of choice

 

[Lasse]

Nope - that´s not a prove - this is special treated to give a chemical fluorescence

You should use a normal yellow coloured plastic part or a yellow fish

Sincerely Lasse

 

[VintageReefer]

Nope - that´s not a prove - this is special treated to give a chemical fluorescence

You should use a normal yellow coloured plastic part or a yellow fish

Sincerely Lasse

Unfiltered - no software filters. No clip on lens. No editing