What makes a Holy Grail ??

[Biokabe]

I don't know who started the naming craze, and while they're marketing geniuses for getting folks to dump thousands of dollars on tiny frags like they're collectible Pokemon cards I despise them.

Naming in and of itself is neither nefarious nor useless. It's a normal thing that happens as a group grows in size and becomes more sophisticated. Assuming both people know what they're talking about, what's easier:

"I have a Holy Grail torch."

"I have a bright electric green torch with yellow accents on the tentacles."

The first one, obviously. It's communication efficiency. When it has a name, it's easier to talk about and easier to identify. It becomes a standard, and to rail against it is to ignore a very normal part of human communication.

Do unscrupulous people exploit that standard to drive up their profits? Sure. But it's not like buyers don't have a way to fight back against it. Don't like the price? Don't buy it. A named coral doesn't have value because of the name. It has value because it has characteristics that people want and are willing to pay for. But if the price is too high, vendors won't get their sales and prices will fall. Especially if the coral is actually relatively common and easy to come by.

 

[NanoSteam]

Naming in and of itself is neither nefarious nor useless. It's a normal thing that happens as a group grows in size and becomes more sophisticated. Assuming both people know what they're talking about, what's easier:

"I have a Holy Grail torch."

"I have a bright electric green torch with yellow accents on the tentacles."

The first one, obviously. It's communication efficiency. When it has a name, it's easier to talk about and easier to identify. It becomes a standard, and to rail against it is to ignore a very normal part of human communication.

Do unscrupulous people exploit that standard to drive up their profits? Sure. But it's not like buyers don't have a way to fight back against it. Don't like the price? Don't buy it. A named coral doesn't have value because of the name. It has value because it has characteristics that people want and are willing to pay for. But if the price is too high, vendors won't get their sales and prices will fall. Especially if the coral is actually relatively common and easy to come by.

I certainly don't subscribe to it but if you ask me the second example is easier, everyone will know what electric green looks like but how is someone new to the hobby going to know what a "holy grail" looks like.

 

[slingfox]

I certainly don't subscribe to it but if you ask me the second example is easier, everyone will know what electric green looks like but how is someone new to the hobby going to know what a "holy grail" looks like.

Someone new to collecting torches can quickly learn the naming conventions for the more widely traded types of torches: Dragon Soul, Hellfire, NYKnicks, Joker, Banana, Holy Grail, etc. etc. Good vendors can explain the difference and they newbies come to this board and ask!

For analogy,in the SPS area, it is much easier to use the trade names for available frags. Take RRU Angry Birds as an example, nobody in their right mind would try selling it with descriptions only since it is hard to describe and the lineage is very important.

 

[NanoSteam]

Someone new to collecting torches can quickly learn the naming conventions for the more widely traded types of torches: Dragon Soul, Hellfire, NYKnicks, Joker, Banana, Holy Grail, etc. etc. Good vendors can explain the difference and they can come to this board and ask!

I guess I'm stuck in my old ways, I'm also not a fan of the more recent all blues look.

 

[Biokabe]

how is someone new to the hobby going to know what a "holy grail" looks like.

By researching and/or asking. The same way anyone learns what named things are.

To take it to absurd extremes: Imagine two video gamers who have decided that naming things is stupid and is just artificially used to drive up the cost of hardware and games. They go to have a conversation:

"Oh, I just got a new game for my gaming console from the Sony multinational corporation, the fifth generation console with the AMD Zen 2 processor and 16 GB of RAM."

"Oh, do you have the fifth generation console with the AMD Zen 2 processor and 16GB of RAM with the RDNA 2 GPU, or the one with modified GPU with RDNA 3 and RDNA 4 components?"

"The one with just the RDNA 2 components."

"I see, I see. And what game did you get?"

"I got the sequel to the game about the little-known character from Greek mythology, where he has to fight his way through multiple levels of the Underworld to reach the surface. In the sequel, you play as that character's sister, and you have to fight through both the surface and the underworld to stop the attack of the character's grandfather, who is angry that his children had cut him into pieces in the past."

"I see, is it any good?"

Or, they could use names and have the following conversation:

"I just got a new game for my PS5."

"Oh, do you have a PS5 or a PS5 pro?"

"Just the regular PS5."

"Cool, what game did you get?"

"I got Hades 2, you play as Zagreus' sister, Melinoe and this time you're fighting against Chronos in both the Underworld and up through Mount Olympus."

"Is it good?"

Yes, names make things slightly more difficult the first time you talk about something, but once both people know what the names mean it's so much easier and more efficient to communicate.

 

[Baylott224]

I have several “holy grails” for sale….it is amazing how fast they reproduce to also fetch such a high price. Mine are priced competitively at $500 plus shipping and no DOA guarantee, however, they are extremely hearty. I generally include a Berghia as a “feebie”….

I was like where's the torch I thought you were serious.

 

[johnnycamp5]

Yes, the name carries a higher price. But it’s not a meaningless name. It’s a type of torch with distinct characteristics, just like any other named coral. There’s attributes behind it. Just like a hellfire or Knicks or joker torch. Each one of these is a distinct type of torch, with identifiable characteristics.

Now, with holy grail torch, there are a lot of imposters and fakes. This is a situation where someone has an inexpensive bright green torch and throws “holy grail” in the name to try and get more money. A cotton candy torch for example is a cheaper torch, bright green, but has zero traces of yellow in the tentacles. These are sometimes mislabeled - intentionally or unintentionally, and sold as holy grail, for 3-5x the actual value/worth.

Holy grail should have yellow shine/shimmer/accents. It’s not a regular bright green torch

Couldn’t that depend on lighting?

 

[Lasse]

I was like where's the torch I thought you were serious.

He is - its his Holy grail

Sincerely Lasse

 

[slingfox]

I

Couldn’t that depend on lighting?

At coral shows all the vendors use heavy blue. Under that light it is fairly easy to distinguish between the major types of torch corals. Online pictures can be a lot of difficult to judge due to the potential use of filters and Photoshop.

 

[PeterErc]

I don't know who started the naming craze, and while they're marketing geniuses for getting folks to dump thousands of dollars on tiny frags like they're collectible Pokemon cards I despise them.

This is where the name game started. Back when you got a frag with lineage back to the original colony and you knew what you were getting.

been all downhill ever since

http://www.reeffarmers.com/limitededitions.htm

 

[slingfox]

Here is the Holy Grail I recently added to my tank. I don’t run crazy blues since I like my fish to still be recognizable. If I turned the blues to max like at the coral shows the light blue tips would turn neon blue/purple. The torch is sitting on the sandbed which is the lowest par area of the tank.

Photo taken with my iPhone. No Photoshop or any post-processing.

 

[VintageReefer]

Those were probably dragon tamers. When cooked long enough they too are stunning pieces

Dragon tamer at peak color. I had it side by side to a banana grail. It was 90% the same. I called it poor man’s banana grail. Only difference is the green is a little darker

 

[VintageReefer]

Here is the Holy Grail I recently added to my tank. I don’t run crazy blues since I like my fish to still be recognizable. If I turned the blues to max like at the coral shows the light blue tips would turn neon blue/purple. The torch is sitting on the sandbed which is the lowest par area of the tank.

Photo taken with my iPhone. No Photoshop or any post-processing.

If it looks like that in person that’s a high end banana grail. If those tentacles become full yellow it’s banana grail

Holy Grail is not as high end imo and is a distinct neon green color and not yellow.

 

[slingfox]

If it looks like that in person that’s a high end banana grail. If those tentacles become full yellow it’s banana grail

Holy Grail is not as high end imo and is a distinct neon green color and not yellow.

There is always some yellow even when i am running mostly whites during the day. The photo above is in the evening when I running more blues which really brings out the yellow. I run blues for the last two hours of the day since I am still trying to figure out the names for several SPS that I lost track of during my recent tank reset I have to rebuild my torch collection again since my old setup had too much flow and the torches didn’t like it. I may get a smaller second tank for just LPS at some point but need to get the main tank in order first.

 

[VintageReefer]

Couldn’t that depend on lighting?

while you do need good lighting to retain the yellow shine, your not making anything show that doesn’t already exist.

I can put a cotton candy under any lighting in the world. It won’t make it look like a holy grail. However, a holy grail under bad lighting could look like a cotton candy and not show its yellow

 

[VintageReefer]

Anyone getting ripped off on holy grail can hit me up and I can get them for $300 or less depending on time of year and availability. Sometimes even $200 a head
Banana grails are a little more but I can get those also for good prices

 

[slingfox]

Dragon tamer at peak color. I had it side by side to a banana grail. It was 90% the same. I called it poor man’s banana grail. Only difference is the green is a little darker

Nice collection of yellow armed torches! Torches are a crowd pleaser due to the movement and ability to look very nice without running the tank in full windex mode.

 

[VintageReefer]

Nice collection of yellow armed torches! Torches are a crowd pleaser due to the movement and ability to look very nice without running the tank in full windex mode.

 

[VintageReefer]

Here’s my bold yellow torch with light blue tips and green mouth

Next is my yellow torch, it’s not the same yellow it’s more of a slightly darker yellow torch with green mouth and dark blue tips.

Above is is my torch with green mouth and golden yellow base that blends into purple tentacles with green tips

Next to it is a torch with golden base that blends into a darker purple tentacle with teal tips

Then we have a torch that’s a brighter yellow almost neon yellow with bright green mouth and purple tips

Followed by a torch with purple mouth that goes into not yellow but golden tentacles and teal tips

And then a torch with purple mouth and tentacles that are striped purple on the bottom half and gold on the top half with blue tips

I could go on and on and this gets old fast. The names exist for a reason. They define traits and characteristics and are easier to talk about. You aren’t always paying for the name, you also are paying for the look of the torch also. And certain torches are more sensitive, rare, difficult to collect naturally, slower to grow and multiply etc.

 

[slingfox]

@VintageReefer Incredible collection! When you have a new torch, what is your dip protocol currently? I have CoralRx, Restor, the Polyp Lab dip, pure potassium chloride, and hydrogen peroxide. I have moved to Polyp Lab or KCl for hard corals but still not sure what to do for LPS and euphillia.