Where does my water go?

[dduby]

Good morning Reef2Reef. I'm quite puzzled and hopefully someone can provide some insight. After i power everything back on after a feeding, my water level in the return section of my sump is lower than when i powered down. It's not just a little lower, I'm talking 4ish inches. The water has to be somewhere, but i can't figure out where it goes. I don't think there is any possible way that i'm losing this to evaporation. I know that it could be in the overflow but i don't think the level fluctuates enough to explain the drop in my sump. I worry that when my ATO kicks in to bring the level back up i could get some desalination.

 

[mtfish]

Water has be either in your DT or the sump. Sounds like there is an imbalance between the pump flow and the return to sump flow. Maybe after some time it equals out, but not fast enough when you first power your pump back on. If you turn your ATO off and let it run, does it equal the levels? What type of overflow? What is your tank volume and sump volume? How many GPH does your pump push? Hope you get it figured out.

 

[dduby]

I'll top off the return chamber to set the level and it will remain there until i shut everything off. I have not tried to leave the ATO off to see what it will do over time. I'm running dual herbies with 1" pvc and a 1" return. My tank is 110G and have roughly 30g of water in my sump. I'm not quite sure my exact GPH figure but i'm running the VarioS 6 on 3 of 5 speed setting with 3ft of head loss. The flow chart on BRS' site says 1320gph with 3ft but i'm assuming this is with 1.25" plumbing turned all the way up.

 

[mtfish]

I would turn ATO off, then turn off pump and let water stop flowing. Turn it back on and wait a couple of minutes and see if the flows go back to normal. Again, if the water in the sump is lower, then the main tank is higher.

 

[dank reefer]

Is your return pump ramping up once it's done with feed mode? If so check your ramp setting to see how long it's taking for it to get back to full power.

 

[Brew12]

I know that it could be in the overflow but i don't think the level fluctuates enough to explain the drop in my sump.

The water will back up on your overflow weirs and any baffles you have in your sump. It also drains from the return line. Having the water level in your return section rise a few inches during a loss of flow (or significant reduction in flow) is very common.
You want your ATO to maintain level while running, it shouldn't do more than alarm when in feed or a maintenance mode.

 

[dduby]

Is your return pump ramping up once it's done with feed mode? If so check your ramp setting to see how long it's taking for it to get back to full power.

I don't believe it ramps at all. I'm pretty sure it goes full tilt once it's powered back on.

 

[dduby]

Having the water level in your return section rise a few inches during a loss of flow (or significant reduction in flow) is very common.

I'm actually questioning the opposite. Why does my water level drop from where it was prior to powering down for feeding. I have to reposition the level sensor to prevent the ato from topping off. Maybe i'm worrying too much about it.

 

[Brew12]

I'm actually questioning the opposite. Why does my water level drop from where it was prior to powering down for feeding. I have to reposition the level sensor to prevent the ato from topping off. Maybe i'm worrying too much about it.

So you power down your pump and level in your return section drops?

 

[dduby]

I would turn ATO off, then turn off pump and let water stop flowing. Turn it back on and wait a couple of minutes and see if the flows go back to normal. Again, if the water in the sump is lower, then the main tank is higher.

I've been thinking about this and i turn the ATO back on after the water that drains down from the display gets pumped back in and I reposition the water level sensor to prevent top off. I would think that if the level would equalize in my sump to where it was prior to the power down, my ATO would alarm at the water level now being too high.

Perhaps, as you mentioned earlier, it is just a need to match return flow with drain flow better.

 

[HOOPDEEZ]

If the herbie style plumbing is not adjusted right it could build up in the overflow up to your emergency drain(the proper level), then slowly lower to the main drain. Does it get loud or gurgling? Is there a decent gap between the two drains in each overflow? What size is the overflow area, a large column style or low profile?

 

[dduby]

So you power down your pump and level in your return section drops?

Negative, when i power back up the water level in the return section is lower than before.

 

[dduby]

If the herbie style plumbing is not adjusted right it could build up in the overflow up to your emergency drain(the proper level), then slowly lower to the main drain. Does it get loud or gurgling? Is there a decent gap between the two drains in each overflow? What size is the overflow area, a large column style or low profile?

Dual corner overflows. I have the water level adjusted just below the overflow. I have no gurgling noises, it's virtually silent. I have 6" of height difference between the full siphon and the emergency

 

[Brew12]

Negative, when i power back up the water level in the return section is lower than before.

Let me see if I have this right then.

Your system is running and levels are where you want them. You go to feed mode and the return pump turns off (or ramps down). Level in the return section rises.

You leave feed mode and flow is restored. The return section drops further than it was prior to feed mode.

Is that correct?

 

[dduby]

Let me see if I have this right then.

Your system is running and levels are where you want them. You go to feed mode and the return pump turns off (or ramps down). Level in the return section rises.

You leave feed mode and flow is restored. The return section drops further than it was prior to feed mode.

Is that correct?

you got it

 

[Brew12]

you got it

How long do you wait to see where level stabilizes?

 

[dduby]

How long do you wait to see where level stabilizes?

10-15 minutes. Then i power the ATO back up and adjust the level sensor. I would think if the level comes up over time that the ATO would alarm due to the level now being too high.

 

[Brew12]

10-15 minutes. Then i power the ATO back up and adjust the level sensor. I would think if the level comes up over time that the ATO would alarm due to the level now being too high.

Ok, this is pretty crazy. So 10 minutes later the level is still low so you turn the ATO back on and lower the sensor so you don't add more makeup water. High alarm never comes back in.

Is there a chance you are back siphoning water somewhere? Have you verified your ATO container level isn't rising when this happens?

 

[MnFish1]

Good morning Reef2Reef. I'm quite puzzled and hopefully someone can provide some insight. After i power everything back on after a feeding, my water level in the return section of my sump is lower than when i powered down. It's not just a little lower, I'm talking 4ish inches. The water has to be somewhere, but i can't figure out where it goes. I don't think there is any possible way that i'm losing this to evaporation. I know that it could be in the overflow but i don't think the level fluctuates enough to explain the drop in my sump. I worry that when my ATO kicks in to bring the level back up i could get some desalination.

I dont quite understand what you're saying. Do you mean that if you turn your return off (during a feeding) - the level in your sump goes up (it should) - and then when you turn the return back on - the level goes down to where it was before (in the sump) - or 4 inches lower than it was before (in the sump) - btw - just to be specific - I mean 4 inches below where it was BEFORE you did the feeding mode? Second question - does it stay lower or does it rapidly rise back it should be? Third - how big is your tank - and how big is your sump?

To (try) to answer your question - it cant be evaporation with a 5-30 minute feeding period. If you dont see water overflowing somewhere in your sump - it cant be that. If your overflow is somehow 'blocked' (either at the source - or somewhere in the pipe) - as the water from the sump flows back into the tank - the water level in the sump will drop - the tank will fill up faster than its draining - and thus - depending on how your ATO is set (and how long the tank takes to re-equilibrate) - eventually you can dilute out - eventually you will add enough water to the point where you tank will overflow.

PS - some other posts were added while I typed this - so I got most of the answers.

 

[shred5]

Nothing is overflowing when you power down?
Water is not back siphoning into the top of reservoir?