Who's running without mechanical filtration?

[BryanM]

Why even have a sump at all then if you don't want to remove waste...

heaters, probes, etc, etc.... I do like keeping my DT devoid of all of these things.

Also more water volume, which I think helps makes things easier to maintain.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

Why even have a sump at all then if you don't want to remove waste...

I agree. I never used a sump before. May never.

 

[KrisReef]

Do fish count as mechanical filtration of water and rock surfaces?

That was easy. Where does a UV sterilizer come into play?

And water changes?

Skimming filters out excess CO2, and other things that collect in the overflow dumpster.

With these things only one does not have to have socks or toilet rollers to keep the water “perfect.”

 

[BeanAnimal]

Why even have a sump at all then if you don't want to remove waste...

1 - increased system volume
2 - place to put extra rock
3 - place to put heater
4 - place to run carbon and other media as needed
5 - place to put critters in jail
6 - place to put pumps that feed other equipment
7 - place for skimmer
8 - place for dosing pump feeds
9 - place for ato
10 -place to facilitate water changes
11 -PLACE FOR MULM TO COLLECT instead of display.
etc.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

1 - increased system volume
2 - place to put extra rock
3 - place to put heater
4 - place to run carbon and other media as needed
5 - place to put critters in jail
6 - place to put pumps that feed other equipment
7 - place for skimmer
8 - place for dosing pump feeds
9 - place for ato
10 -place to facilitate water changes
11 -PLACE FOR MULM TO COLLECT instead of display.
etc.

Don't need any of that in my tanks. Fun to play with though.

 

[exnisstech]

I run a pretty simple system. I do use mesh socks but still am getting a nice build up of mulm starting because I tend to let them overflow for a day or so before I change them. Tank has only been running since March. I've never cleaned a sump on any tank. When I tore down my last tank I scooped all the sump nastiness from 7 years and dumped in the sump of the new build. It was full of life.

Rock is from the last tank. Display was started with all dry rock. It's run as a cryptic fuge so no light.

DT

For disclosure I do currently have a skimmer running skimming very dry when I remember to turn it back on after feeding. After I started running it I found out the smart timer for the scrubber LEDs got dumb and wasn't turning them on. After fixing that and adding the skimmer my PO4 went from 0.68 to 0.27. I'm about ready to shut the skimmer down and see how things go.

EDIT : @VintageReefer was a big help in my decision to run this tank using these methods.

 

[Koty]

I have a very high billed so I try to “eat the cake and still keep it”: I use a large filter wool after my cheato refuge. During the first week or 2 all the water get filtered until it gets clogged and the water overflows unfiltered. I let it overflow for 2-3 weeks before I replace it. Interestingly even when the filter wool is clogged with all the detritus , organic and critters, nitrate is unaffected and stays near 0.

 

[Red_Beard]

how do you keep the chaeto from going "downstream"?

I use a strainer. I have a piece of egg crate spaced with a small gap in front of the baffle, with a strip of craft mesh at the top to keep it contained. Works well, and should a stray piece make it through, the tangs enjoy a quick snack.

 

[exnisstech]

Works well, and should a stray piece make it through, the tangs enjoy a quick snack.

That reminds me. With the surf ATS I have a never ending supply of algae for my tang gang. Just lift the lid grab a handful and toss it in. They suck it down like spaghetti. No more nori purchases.

 

[mythesis]

I use a strainer. I have a piece of egg crate spaced with a small gap in front of the baffle, with a strip of craft mesh at the top to keep it contained. Works well, and should a stray piece make it through, the tangs enjoy a quick snack.

any chance you can take a pic? I'm not following exactly and I want to do something similar.

 

[BeanAnimal]

That's not correct at all. Mulm is not inert. Bacteria continues to break it down into ammonia and other nutrients. Slowly over time.

Hi -

"Detritus" and "mulm" are often interchanged in the context of discussions like this. The definitions can be ambiguous.

In this context, "mulm" refers to the mostly inorganic leftovers from the active process of microbial breakdown. Inorganic "ash" is the term I used, qualified with the word "basically." The context would also include refractory organics that are not going to break down or will break down very slowly in an aquarium environment, such as lignins, acids, and other hard to degrade organics.

Take a lump of poo, food, or other organic material and allow it to decompose in the sump. Over time, the mass of organic compounds will be consumed (as you point out). As this process continues, it slows down as the available "fuel" disappears and/or the environment no longer supports fauna or chemical processes capable of breaking it down further, at least in any reasonable context or timeframe.

So, in the context in which I’ve used "mulm," I am referring to what is left. I’m not going to argue about when the activity officially becomes "zero" or get into a semantic debate about what "zero" or "inert" means.

There may be a better word, but I hesitate to use "inorganic ash" and "refractory organics" as they add a layer of complexity that is not needed in a general discussion.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

Hi -

"Detritus" and "mulm" are often interchanged in the context of discussions like this. The definitions can be ambiguous.

In this context, "mulm" refers to the mostly inorganic leftovers from the active process of microbial breakdown. Inorganic "ash" is the term I used, qualified with the word "basically." The context would also include refractory organics that are not going to break down or will break down very slowly in an aquarium environment, such as lignins, acids, and other hard to degrade organics.

Take a lump of poo, food, or other organic material and allow it to decompose in the sump. Over time, the mass of organic compounds will be consumed (as you point out). As this process continues, it slows down as the available "fuel" disappears and/or the environment no longer supports fauna or chemical processes capable of breaking it down further, at least in any reasonable context or timeframe.

So, in the context in which I’ve used "mulm," I am referring to what is left. I’m not going to argue about when the activity officially becomes "zero" or get into a semantic debate about what "zero" or "inert" means.

There may be a better word, but I hesitate to use "inorganic ash" and "refractory organics" as they add a layer of complexity that is not needed in a general discussion.

It becomes inert when it becomes calcium or some other inorganic molecule. Basically sand. As long as it’s brown fluffy organic matter it’s going to release nutrients.

 

[oregonrain]

I am moving this direction, largely due to chats w/Vintage. Ultimately probably will only run the ATS.

way back when I started this the rule of them for saltwater was fix it and forget it.
Now I like the way it works better and I think it’s prettier But it is more work

 

[BeanAnimal]

Don't need any of that in my tanks. Fun to play with though.

Sure - there are multiple ways to setup a successful aquarium. There is no rule that you need a sump or any other piece of equipment to be successful or enjoy keeping fish or a reef.

 

[BeanAnimal]

It becomes inert when it becomes calcium or some other inorganic molecule. Basically sand. As long as it’s brown fluffy organic matter it’s going to release nutrients.

I explained the context of my comments and the factual information behind them. I also indicated that that I have no desire to quibble about specific timeframes or what is wholly "inert" vs basically "inert".

Whatever makes you happy in whatever timeframe you want to observe is all you. For my purposes, most of the accumulation in my sump is easily over a decade old and the only biological activity of significance are the microbes and macro fauna living on and among it.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

I explained the context of my comments and the factual information behind them. I also indicated that that I have no desire to quibble about specific timeframes or what is wholly "inert" vs basically "inert".

Whatever makes you happy in whatever timeframe you want to observe is all you. For my purposes, most of the accumulation in my sump is easily over a decade old and the only biological activity of significance are the microbes and macro fauna living on and among it.

Just trying to correct misinformation. Not trying to quibble. I used to think mulm was inert as well because people on forums say it is. But in reality it’s not. Mulm is not inert. Wish I knew that sooner personally.

 

[Red_Beard]

any chance you can take a pic? I'm not following exactly and I want to do something similar.

But of course:

The mesh really is for when i turn off the return pump and levels in that chamber rise.

 

[LPS Bum]

I guess that depends on what you consider to be mechanical filtration. We have our 10 year old daughter's 29 gal tank with only a HOB skimmer. I don't really consider skimmers to be mechanical filtration, but some people do. Water quality is solid. 20% water changes every 2 weeks helps too.

But on my large FOWLR and my large reef, I go hard on the mechanical filtration. Heavy in, heavy out.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Just trying to correct misinformation. Not trying to quibble.

Nah, you are playing games and trying to make a point regarding the term "misinformation" because it was a point of friction in another thread.

I used to think mulm was inert as well because people on forums say it is. But in reality it’s not. Mulm is not inert. Wish I knew that sooner personally.

Again - whatever definition and context makes you happy.

To repeat myself, so as to ensure that there is no "misinformation", even though my initial post and the follow ups were very clear:

The term "mulm" can be ambiguous depending on the context that it is used in. Sometimes referencing "detritus" or any organic accumulation of waste material in an aquarium, and sometimes referencing detritus and other material that has biologically and chemically broken down and mostly become inert.

I was very clear about the context that I used the word in -- and that was to denote the later, "inorganic ash" and "refractory organics" that are basically inert.

I also provided context to my system, where much of the material that has accumulated in the sump is well over a decade old. While new active organics accumulate daily, the older the material the less organic matter left to break down, so it basically becomes inert at some point. The timeframe would depend on what exactly is breaking down and its original composition -- those parameters being outside of the scope of this conversation -- and likely very complicated to measure.

So to be clear, you are free to use the term "mulm" in whatever context you wish, if that is to denote nutrient rich "fluffy" organics freshly settled in a sump or other equipment, so be it. I would suggest if the term is being used in a conversation such as this, then it be qualified (as I did in my initial post and now three times following), so as not to cause confusion, even if you mean it to indicate "nutrient rich waste collecting in the sump".

 

[Acroporaguy]

Been running no mechanical for years, just a lot of flow and a huge protein skimmer. Once I heard Sanjay didn't use mechanical I stopped and I've noticed nothing but good things. Corals can actually eat the floating particulates.