Why am I swimming vertically?

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by TK_KW, Apr 15, 2019 at 7:35 PM.

  1. TK_KW

    TK_KW Wait WHAT!! Its HOW MUCH!!!!! R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Catskill Reef Member Build Thread Contributor

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    I've currently finished up two rounds of praziopro. Noticed ich so now I've started to ramp up copper. I have cupramine on hand. Ive slowly ramped up copper over last four days. Copper level currently sits at 1.28ppm after today's dosing. Anything I can do for this girl, or do I just wait it out? Thanks

    Edit: swims vertically or darts in normal direction in up right position, but she slowly turns on side after a few seconds. Then swims to up right herself vertically. If that makes sense

    20190415_180019.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 7:54 PM

  2. Frtdrmrose7

    Frtdrmrose7 Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award R2R Secret Santa

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    That is a typical spinal injury, there is some evidence that this can be brought on by meds and not always injury. You can dose 1 Tablespoon of pure USP Epsom salts per 5G to help. To confirm this can you post a video or just look for decreased or no use of his tail. Realistically though odds of recovery are low, eventually they will stop eating and lay on the bottom of the tank. I would provide a low flow tank for her and you’ll just have to wait it out unfortunately.
     
  3. TK_KW

    TK_KW Wait WHAT!! Its HOW MUCH!!!!! R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Catskill Reef Member Build Thread Contributor

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    When I feed misis it went straight for it and ate. I figured it's a result of copper or whatnot, as it's been fine for weeks. Tank has hob filter and power head pointed at surface for agitation. Fingers crossed but not hold my breath
     
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  4. Frtdrmrose7

    Frtdrmrose7 Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award R2R Secret Santa

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    It can be a result of copper and I’ve never found a reason for it. usually if it is a spinal issue it will get worse before it gets better. I’m not trying to be all gloom and doom but if this is a spinal issue the prognosis is not good. Wishing you the best of luck.
    Can you post a video?
     
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  5. rkpetersen

    rkpetersen walked the sand with the crustaceans R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Partner Member 2019 Controller Advisor

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    This sucks, I just went through this with a laboutei.
    I got it fat and sassy from DD, eating right from the start.
    Went through GC in water and food first. Did great.
    Around the time of dosing CP, maybe slightly before, not certain, I noticed it swimming a bit odd.
    This progressed to paralysis of the anal fin and back third roughly, in about 36 hours.
    Did not see an injury but could have happened; tank is small and covered. Fish was never a dasher that I witnessed.
    No copper at all in the tank.
    Was eating at first, then stopped.
    The fish had a constitution of iron and although not eating, was still alive and moving around.
    Then it developed typical swim bladder symptoms.
    Spinal paralysis and swim bladder condition.
    Probably should have just euthanized it then. But I didn't see it giving up, so I didn't.
    Dosed epsom salts a few times, also added kanamycin.
    The fish survived two separate swim bladder venting procedures performed by myself.
    The second was performed with Tricaine anesthesia and was successful at both relieving the condition and not immediately killing the fish, much to my surprise.
    Spinal paralysis however showed no evidence of improving. The fish could swim but to a limited extent, but sometimes still upside down, although now at the bottom not the surface.
    Even though it had great muscle mass to start and probably a good bit of fat stored in his liver before he got sick, he was noticeably thinner.
    Finally euthanized him after 15 days of not eating. Could he still have recovered from the paraplegia? I hope not.
    Having a fish that is horribly disabled but otherwise still active is so much worse than having a fish that just dies quickly, as bad as that can be. :(

    I wish you better luck.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 8:13 PM
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  6. TK_KW

    TK_KW Wait WHAT!! Its HOW MUCH!!!!! R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Catskill Reef Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Not sure why the quality is **** after uploading but it's something visual
     
  7. Frtdrmrose7

    Frtdrmrose7 Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award R2R Secret Santa

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    Yes that is a spinal injury as I suspected. Like I said keep it in low flow, try Epsom salts, and unfortunately it’s a wait and see situation. Sorry :(
     
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  8. TK_KW

    TK_KW Wait WHAT!! Its HOW MUCH!!!!! R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Catskill Reef Member Build Thread Contributor

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    As I'm new to marine fish keeping, I'm just trying my best. With the help of all of you, the information is so vast and helpful. But I understand it happens. But it bugs me. But I absolutely can not stomach having ich, or anything else, in my large DT if I can prevent it. I'm learning so much every day
     
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  9. TK_KW

    TK_KW Wait WHAT!! Its HOW MUCH!!!!! R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Catskill Reef Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Thanks for your help
     
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  10. Frtdrmrose7

    Frtdrmrose7 Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award R2R Secret Santa

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    You are doing the right thing by qt’ing. You will save yourself a lot of work and heartache in the future.
     
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  11. BestMomEver

    BestMomEver Valuable Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 Build Thread Contributor

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    It sucks losing them, especially when you’re doing everything to help them thrive. I think we’ve all been there. Keeping my fingers crossed for her..
     
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  12. TK_KW

    TK_KW Wait WHAT!! Its HOW MUCH!!!!! R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Catskill Reef Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Quick question.

    If you add 1 tbsp per 5G. How often do you do that? Does it stay in water volume or dissipate?
     
  13. Frtdrmrose7

    Frtdrmrose7 Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award R2R Secret Santa

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    Once and honestly I’ve never heard of it fixing this, it’s more of a hail Mary because of its anti inflammatory properties.
     
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  14. sean rand

    sean rand Active Member

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    If u said ur using cuppermine than 1.28 is WAY to high
     
  15. Frtdrmrose7

    Frtdrmrose7 Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award R2R Secret Santa

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    Good catch, yes if using cupramine it is therapeutic at .5
     
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  16. lagatbezan

    lagatbezan Active Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Do huge water change to drop the copper level down.
     
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  17. Frtdrmrose7

    Frtdrmrose7 Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award R2R Secret Santa

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    What copper is in this water now?
     
  18. TK_KW

    TK_KW Wait WHAT!! Its HOW MUCH!!!!! R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Catskill Reef Member Build Thread Contributor

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    i thought its 1.75 jesus. i must has mis read. ffs. good thing i have 55g pre heated and pre mixed. Doing emergency water change right now
     
  19. TK_KW

    TK_KW Wait WHAT!! Its HOW MUCH!!!!! R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Catskill Reef Member Build Thread Contributor

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    1.28ppm of cupramine, as of 530 pm tonight. hanna checker test

    60% water change? or more?
     
  20. Frtdrmrose7

    Frtdrmrose7 Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award R2R Secret Santa

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    Cheleted copper is 1.75 (copper power,etc). This may be the cause of the spinal issue. Let’s cross our fingers she gets better in a sterile tank.
     
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