Why is Tank Transfer not recommended any more?

[tenurepro]

Greetings - been a while since i was here and it seems like we have a change in management
I don't see any stickies on the Tank Transfer Method (and its derivatives like the hybrid TTM with hydrogen peroxide bath)... Just curious, is the hybrid TTM a fundamentally flawed idea or is simply a preference of the new moderators who prefer therapeutic copper?

Looking to QT a Tomini Tang. I can certainly do copper but concerned about HLLE. Looking forward to hear your thoughts! thanks!

 

[JGT]

It's all I do. Hasn't failed me yet. It's not as popular here vs. Humblefish's site but it's still a recommended option. I find it to be far less stressful on the fish vs. copper and with the administration of H2O2 and Prazi/GC you can do full parasite eradication protocol.

 

[Sharkbait19]

It’s definitely still a thing, just copper and qt are more popular here. It’s what I do for my fish.
If dealing with something like a mandarin or another fish that may not do well with meds I would do ttm.

 

[PatW]

Tank transfer is great for certain things. It is a bit messy to execute but it is pretty much fool proof if conducted properly. The nice thing about it is there are no meds involved so there are no side effects except the handling of the critters.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Greetings - been a while since i was here and it seems like we have a change in management
I don't see any stickies on the Tank Transfer Method (and its derivatives like the hybrid TTM with hydrogen peroxide bath)... Just curious, is the hybrid TTM a fundamentally flawed idea or is simply a preference of the new moderators who prefer therapeutic copper?

Looking to QT a Tomini Tang. I can certainly do copper but concerned about HLLE. Looking forward to hear your thoughts! thanks!

Still a recommended method
Some Dislike it as you need 2-3 tanks and are moving fish every 48 hrs but still works

 

[damsels are not mean]

I like the hybrid tank transfer method, just did it for the first time and it was very easy and low stress on the fish. Uses H2O2 from the grocery store in 2 30 minute baths to eradicate surface parasites and transfers to eliminate ich. I will probably do this for every fish I get going forward unless the fish is coming from a pre-QT'd place. I never wanted to do any copper or anything. Seemed difficult, stressful to the fish, and lately less effective.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Hybrid TTM works great, if done correctly. At least it has for me.

- No copper
- easier to manage ammonia, as there is usually enough water to avoid a fatal/harmful ammonia spike before you transfer to new water. Provided you do not throw 6 large fish in a 10g tank.
- no loss of appetite for picky fish that may already be more challenging to get eating
- no second guessing dosing of copper to maintain therapeutic levels due to water changes
- No need to buy another tester or test kit
- does not have to be done with fish tanks. You can use totes to do it and then use totes to store equipment for the QT after it is completed.

It does have downsides, well to some.

- 2 sets of filtration
- 2 sets of heaters
- 2 containers (at minimum)
- time to clean equipment before use again

 

[Miami Reef]

I’ve done TTM for the first time with 2 clownfish and a baby blue tang and it was very effective and an interesting experience.

I personally think copper is a bit more fool proof though.

If you have smaller fish: TTM

Larger, active, and messier fish need copper because TTM with large tanks will be very expensive with constant water changes.

 

[Lividfanatica]

Greetings - been a while since i was here and it seems like we have a change in management
I don't see any stickies on the Tank Transfer Method (and its derivatives like the hybrid TTM with hydrogen peroxide bath)... Just curious, is the hybrid TTM a fundamentally flawed idea or is simply a preference of the new moderators who prefer therapeutic copper?

Looking to QT a Tomini Tang. I can certainly do copper but concerned about HLLE. Looking forward to hear your thoughts! thanks!

Being someone who is about to stick 2 yellow tangs and a pacific blue into copper... curious if HLLE is something they will recover from given a solid diet and good habitat? Follow up - are there any fish you(R2R members) would NEVER use copper for?

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Being someone who is about to stick 2 yellow tangs and a pacific blue into copper... curious if HLLE is something they will recover from given a solid diet and good habitat? Follow up - are there any fish you(R2R members) would NEVER use copper for?

I would never use copper on wrasse. I used copper in the past for most fix except them. Some tolerate it OK, but most do not. Hard enough to even get a rare leopard eating, so why would I want to even take a chance at suppressing its appetite even more.

For them, I culture pods to feed (I already do this in a fish-less and sterile system), am able to put sand in the QT tanks (do not need much, but it is not trash afterwards and can be disinfected and reused later), do the hybrid ttm and call it a day.

Lionfish, eels, puffers, sharks are also ones I will never use copper on. From my experience, it affects them long term and does internal damage to their organs.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

hybrid TTM is still my primary method.

 

[damsels are not mean]

Hybrid TTM works great, if done correctly. At least it has for me.

- No copper
- easier to manage ammonia, as there is usually enough water to avoid a fatal/harmful ammonia spike before you transfer to new water. Provided you do not throw 6 large fish in a 10g tank.
- no loss of appetite for picky fish that may already be more challenging to get eating
- no second guessing dosing of copper to maintain therapeutic levels due to water changes
- No need to buy another tester or test kit
- does not have to be done with fish tanks. You can use totes to do it and then use totes to store equipment for the QT after it is completed.

It does have downsides, well to some.

- 2 sets of filtration
- 2 sets of heaters
- 2 containers (at minimum)
- time to clean equipment before use again

I didn't run any true filter on mine, just went through a pack of airstones and some airline tubing. I don't think it's much more expensive if you are using small tanks and I think many long term hobbyist have some of this gear just lying around already. The one place it becomes impractical is with big fish. But if you can afford big fish or the tank to house them, paying upfront for a fish quarantined by experts and then doing some observation or light treatment is what I'd do.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Greetings - been a while since i was here and it seems like we have a change in management
I don't see any stickies on the Tank Transfer Method (and its derivatives like the hybrid TTM with hydrogen peroxide bath)... Just curious, is the hybrid TTM a fundamentally flawed idea or is simply a preference of the new moderators who prefer therapeutic copper?

Looking to QT a Tomini Tang. I can certainly do copper but concerned about HLLE. Looking forward to hear your thoughts! thanks!

I don’t like TTM - it is really designed around the textbook ich life cycle - trouble is, the parasites don’t always follow the book(grin).

The life cycle of Cryptocaryon is not as cut and dry as people think - tomonts can stick to gills and get carried through the TTM cycle. There is some good anecdotal evidence that Amyloodinium doesn't need to leave the fish at all, so hybrid TTM would be needed, and then, that may not work. Finally, there is Neobenedenia and Brooklynella - they make up about 20% of the diseases I see here and they will skate right through even hybrid TTM.

Then, there are diseases that simply do not manifest themselves within the shortened timeline of TTM. You then risk introducing those diseases into your DT due to the shortened time for the TTM over that of the more typical 40+ day methods. Some of those diseases are not treatable, but you definitely don't want them getting into your DT....Myxosporidians, etc. Remember, part of the reason to run a full quarantine is to protect your existing fish from the new ones.

I've also seen issues with ammonia build up and handling damage - these can both be avoided with proper care, but not everyone manages that.

For people who are dead set on avoiding copper, I usually suggest hyposalinity.


Jay

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Good discussion! I've used TTM successfully. I've also used hyposalinity.

 

[Lauren11]

Need some help ... I have ich in my (reef) DT, which has 7 fish. I’m interested in doing TTM but what do I do to “clean” out the DT? Presumably adding the fish back into the DT after doing TTM would just recreate the issue bc the ich is in the water column. All advice/help is welcome. I’m 8/9 months into the hobby and this is my first experience with ich.
As an aside, I’m planning to get a new tank in about 9 mos/year so perhaps management until I re-set up my system is the better plan? Just don’t want anyone to be uncomfortable or die in the meantime. 2 of my fish have spots (blue tang & flame Angel)

 

[Lauren11]

I don’t like TTM - it is really designed around the textbook ich life cycle - trouble is, the parasites don’t always follow the book(grin).

The life cycle of Cryptocaryon is not as cut and dry as people think - tomonts can stick to gills and get carried through the TTM cycle. There is some good anecdotal evidence that Amyloodinium doesn't need to leave the fish at all, so hybrid TTM would be needed, and then, that may not work. Finally, there is Neobenedenia and Brooklynella - they make up about 20% of the diseases I see here and they will skate right through even hybrid TTM.

Then, there are diseases that simply do not manifest themselves within the shortened timeline of TTM. You then risk introducing those diseases into your DT due to the shortened time for the TTM over that of the more typical 40+ day methods. Some of those diseases are not treatable, but you definitely don't want them getting into your DT....Myxosporidians, etc. Remember, part of the reason to run a full quarantine is to protect your existing fish from the new ones.

I've also seen issues with ammonia build up and handling damage - these can both be avoided with proper care, but not everyone manages that.

For people who are dead set on avoiding copper, I usually suggest hyposalinity.


Jay

hybrid TTM is still my primary method.

What is the hybrid TTM method? Apologies for my ignorance. First time ich outbreak in my reef DT and don’t know what to do ... researching all options & think I’d prefer not to do copper. Thank you so much for any advice.

 

[damsels are not mean]

What is the hybrid TTM method? Apologies for my ignorance. First time ich outbreak in my reef DT and don’t know what to do ... researching all options & think I’d prefer not to do copper. Thank you so much for any advice.

It's TTM with two 30min baths in a low dosage of H2O2 in between transfers 1 and 3. The goal is to eliminate surface parasites with the peroxide and elminate ich using transfers.

Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites!

Important: Tank Transfer Method is most effective when water temperature and salinity are kept within this range... Temp: 24C/76F - 28C/82F Salinity: 27ppt / 1.020 SG - 35ppt / 1.026 SG Tank Transfer Method is an effective (non-chemical) treatment for Marine Ich. However, it's weakness has...

humble.fish

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Need some help ... I have ich in my (reef) DT, which has 7 fish. I’m interested in doing TTM but what do I do to “clean” out the DT? Presumably adding the fish back into the DT after doing TTM would just recreate the issue bc the ich is in the water column. All advice/help is welcome. I’m 8/9 months into the hobby and this is my first experience with ich.
As an aside, I’m planning to get a new tank in about 9 mos/year so perhaps management until I re-set up my system is the better plan? Just don’t want anyone to be uncomfortable or die in the meantime. 2 of my fish have spots (blue tang & flame Angel)

That's another problem with TTM - it only works for new fish. If you have an existing aquarium, and the fish develop ich, you can't pull them and use TTM because at the end of the run, you need a clean tank to house them and your DT will have been recently infected, and will still be in its fallow period. Copper and hyposalinity require longer treatment periods, so you can't run them unless you have a stable treatment tank - and therefore, the fish can be housed in that tank until your display has run fallow long enough.

I suppose you could pull the fish from your DT, and run TTM or hybrid TTM and then move the fish to a new, uninfected tank while your DT runs fallow, but why would anyone do that?

Jay

 

[RobB'z Reef]

That's another problem with TTM - it only works for new fish. If you have an existing aquarium, and the fish develop ich, you can't pull them and use TTM because at the end of the run, you need a clean tank to house them and your DT will have been recently infected, and will still be in its fallow period. Copper and hyposalinity require longer treatment periods, so you can't run them unless you have a stable treatment tank - and therefore, the fish can be housed in that tank until your display has run fallow long enough.

I suppose you could pull the fish from your DT, and run TTM or hybrid TTM and then move the fish to a new, uninfected tank while your DT runs fallow, but why would anyone do that?

Jay

If you're in for ich management, which i am, and you have a fish that's really struggling but others aren't, I've been very successful using TTM to get that fish back to a healthy state and reintroduce them right back to the main display they came from. Hybrid TTM, two weeks observation, back in.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

What is the hybrid TTM method? Apologies for my ignorance. First time ich outbreak in my reef DT and don’t know what to do ... researching all options & think I’d prefer not to do copper. Thank you so much for any advice.

I think it's a great method, I myself prefer to use a less harsh (chemically) approach personally. The H2O2 isn't very stressful for them and does wonders to help get any tomants off that may be present. Within TTM are many approaches from simple to elaborate (5 gallon buckets to small tanks) that you can use to perform this with. It's really something pioneered by humblefish (check out his site). This is a quick overview of my setup which has worked very well for me (again, 5 gallon buckets will suffice).