Wildy different results from api and salifert nitrite tests

pendraegon

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So I am doing a fishnets cycle of a tank with ammonia and bacteria in a bottle and have been testing for the cycle daily. I was using the api kit, but was having determining my nitrite level so I got the salifert kit to see if it was different... well I was concerned that my nitrite could be above 5ppm with api, but it seems to read zero with salifert... did I get a bad batch of reagent?
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mdb_talon

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i dont know which if either are correct. My advice is put the nitrite kits on the shelf though. Not needed in a reef tank. If you want to observe cycle daily measure ammonia and maybe nitrate and skip the nitrite.
 

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i dont know which if either are correct. My advice is put the nitrite kits on the shelf though. Not needed in a reef tank. If you want to observe cycle daily measure ammonia and maybe nitrate and skip the nitrite.

I would agree after the cycle but the op is in the middle of a cycle, testing for nitrates whilst nitrites are present will give an misleading nitrates result.
 

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I had similar results with the salifert ammonia test kit. I even straight dropped pure ammonia into the test tube (mixed with saltwater) and still nothing. Nitrate is fine tho. Sorry, I know this doesn't help you.
 
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pendraegon

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So I have a biota yellow tang coming in on Friday and I'm cycling a quarantine/ observation tank. If I'm still having any ammonia or nitrites I plan on doing a 100% water change on Thursday. I had added Dr Tims and Fritz bacteria and do have nitrates in the tank as well, and have added ammonia 3x. So I think I'll be set by Friday. I just don't know how to interpret what I'm seeing between the 2 tests. The api kit didn't show nitrites at first, which was expected, and it rose after the ammonia so it made sense. Thanks for the replies
 

brandon429

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This post is helpful in many ways thanks for showing how non digital test kits cause false alarms


stop testing for nitrite it’s neutral in reefing, it matters only in freshwater. only ammonia control matters, problem solved nice n quick

post a pic of the tank about to receive fish so we can assess surface area presentation, we can easily see if you’re ready using no kits. This cycle is done per degree of surface area in tank for sure, both Fritz and Dr Tims are skip cycle bac, they carry fish on day one without any wait time and in full control over ammonia.
 
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ingchr1

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i dont know which if either are correct. My advice is put the nitrite kits on the shelf though. Not needed in a reef tank. If you want to observe cycle daily measure ammonia and maybe nitrate and skip the nitrite.
Another point of view on nitrite. One should read and decide for themselves the necessity.

 

brandon429

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That one purposefully omits reef tank work though, so that claims can’t be challenged. Lasse also goes against Randy’s nitrite article without providing new references.


that one doesn’t omit reef tank work, we can track any tank to maturity there, twenty pages of nitrite positive reefs. Lasse doesn’t use one single reef tank example at all, this forms an insulation preventing assessment of his claims.
 
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ingchr1

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That one purposefully omits reef tank work though, so that claims can’t be challenged. Lasse also goes against Randy’s nitrite article without using new references other than his own


that one doesn’t omit reef tank work, we can track any tank to maturity there, twenty pages of nitrite positive reefs. Lasse doesn’t use one single reef tank example at all, this forms an insulation preventing assessment of his claims.
Like I said, one should take in the information and decide for themselves. I personally don't think Lasse purposely omitted anything, just posted up his experience and point of view on testing for nitrite.
 
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brandon429

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Thats fair, I added this thread there to at least show mis testing was possible, he had not told us about that prior.


I don’t mind if someone wants to study nitrite dynamics as part of the cycling process but the concern is being carried over into thousands of cycles and it causes hesitation, re purchasing of bottle bac if the bad kit is owned (tbd which one is wrong) and a loss of focus on disease preps for the masses

we aren’t told how neutral it is unless we’re reading updated cycling science material, I wish new cyclers could get that info up front vs being taught it matters / is consequential if not measured. See this case point


no mention no focus on fish disease is the recurring theme
 
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taricha

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gonna go against the grain.
I think API is real and less than 5. A little nitrite is a bunch of color and anything over 1 looks too strongly pink for the eye/color card to get a good match.
I can come up with ways to generate a negative false result (salifert). I have no idea how to generate a positive false test (API).

cheapest easiest is to grab another API test bottle and double-check.
 

brandon429

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Why spend money to verify a completely inert param

buy Hanna digital then, spend well


I bet this cycle is done, there aren’t any threads of not-ready-yet cycles on the board let’s see if this is one

post full tank shot so we can assess surface area

how many days under water total after adding bottle bac Pendraegon


change focus away from nitrite and into fish disease preps, best use of time and $
 
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Lasse also goes against Randy’s nitrite article without using new references other than his own
Stop to post false statement. I have not gone against Randy´s article - which is good - I have only said that I do not share his conclusions about the non importance of measuring nitrite in a reef aquarium. And of course as always - I base my opinion on own experiences based on very well known scientific knowledge of the nature of the nitrification cycle. All my experiences is based on using Tropic marine Pro NO2/NO3 test, Hanna ULR marine nitrite checker and recently Master Tronic measuring robot. And Brandon - I will totally ignore your contributions to this thread with this exception as I will in all other upcoming threads threads even if you keep on screaming "Lasse" (sorry it was a misspelling of wolf)

So I have a biota yellow tang coming in on Friday and I'm cycling a quarantine/ observation tank. If I'm still having any ammonia or nitrites I plan on doing a 100% water change on Thursday. I had added Dr Tims and Fritz bacteria and do have nitrates in the tank as well, and have added ammonia 3x. So I think I'll be set by Friday. I just don't know how to interpret what I'm seeing between the 2 tests. The api kit didn't show nitrites at first, which was expected, and it rose after the ammonia so it made sense. Thanks for the replies

I would - as @taricha . go for the API test here - especially if you had followed the rise from 0 to higher. If you have nitrite in the water - your nitrate readings is affected of the nitrite. I do not know the conversion factor for API but for most colour change test you have to lower your nitrate readings around 50 times of the read nitrite concentration.

You expect a new very expensive fish this friday and i understand your anxiety. If the ammonia is below 0.2-0.4 I do not see any acute toxic risk even if the nitrite is elevated. I not either see any needs for WC - but that´s totally my own thoughts. In my experiences - it is totally impossible to dilute nitrite concentrations with WC. After a couple of hours - they are back nearly as high as before. My experiences also says that WC with total new mixed water sometimes can delay the start of step 2 in the nitrification cycle. IMO - if you should do a WC - use your mature DT water instead. You will have some NOB (NOB - Nitrite Oxidizing Bacteria) attached to particles in the water too. And please - do not add any more ammonia

When you have introduced you new fish to the QT and if it looks healthy and not starved I would suggest to feed it very, very sparsely till the second step kicks in. With sparsely - I really mean sparely - a few frozen adult artemia the first day and some small rise every second day till it had kicked in. The problem is that around 80 % of the foods N will be excreted from the fish gills as NH3/NH4 and because your first step seems to work - it will be directly added to the NO2 pool. When step 2 kicks in you can rise the feeding. This is the way I would handle a situation like this. But it is your fish and you decision.

Good luck with your fish

Sincerely Lasse
 

brandon429

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well said.

I truly don't think one example of testing conflict encapsulates all readings, in fact I agree most readings people post for positive nitrite are correct- we're rarely dealing with 30+ days cycles they're mostly all under the number of days a cycling chart shows towards trending completion for nitrite/give or take 25 days. I wanted to keep the disease focus in check and that's certainly done in your advice above.
 

MnFish1

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That one purposefully omits reef tank work though, so that claims can’t be challenged. Lasse also goes against Randy’s nitrite article without providing new references.


that one doesn’t omit reef tank work, we can track any tank to maturity there, twenty pages of nitrite positive reefs. Lasse doesn’t use one single reef tank example at all, this forms an insulation preventing assessment of his claims.
@Lasse (In that thread said he agrees with 98 percent of Randy's article, and agree or disagree with the article - its interesting to read HIS experience and reasoning behind nitrite when cycling.

I truly don't think one example of testing conflict encapsulates all readings, in fact I agree most readings people post for positive nitrite are correct- we're rarely dealing with 30+ days cycles they're mostly all under the number of days a cycling chart shows towards trending completion for nitrite/give or take 25 days.
The question in this thread was why there could be a difference. - One reason is user error in doing the test, another is bad test reagents (expired). The difference between 0 and 5 is HUGE. If this were my tank and I was testing (anything) - and got such disparate tests, I would get a third test (with a different brand) - which hopefully would match one or the other.
I wanted to keep the disease focus in check and that's certainly done in your advice above.
Just my opinion. It is your opinion that rather than focusing on cycling tanks, people should focus on fish disease. Thats great. But - IMHO - it really is difficult to follow threads when every topic turns into 'concentrate on fish disease'. This is just a suggestion, Why don't you start a thread with 'Brandon's cycling theories'. Pin stickies for each thread you think is important? Then let people comment on everything in one place? Not meant as a criticism, just a comment to try to consolidate some of the information you post. Perhaps there should be a 'Cycling an Aquarium' topic? In addition - perhaps a 'Quarantining fish' topic - where people could start their own threads - rather than putting everything into the 'reef aquarium' (or whatever) discussion. ? @revhtree @DanielR2R
 

brandon429

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I've noticed that you will go for pages downing other's findings while never supplementing them with links of tanks you've worked in, or findings you've made directly, or patterns you've noticed and collected from other's measures. What you're doing to Taricha's work thread is unacceptable, I'm so sorry for his thread even if he doesn't mind what you did in it. I can't interact with you here due to that tendency, I think you use and relay bad science to aquarists and it will be cumulatively harmful in their journey.

I relay the most pressing issues to the cyclers who are misplacing their focus, and that's ok to do as is. no special forums needed, to continue as is and use examples posted by others is working well.


three month delay based on nitrite waiting for zero along with ammonia, example of a false stuck cycle where nitrite isn’t ignored. I like to keep current examples of tanks running here so the impacts, the hesitation and disease factors can be charted for patterning

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/endless-cycling-since-30th-august.860274/page-2#post-9437321


most of us here might agree he can ignore nitrite after this long, but the rules dont tell him when he can do that. He’ll be stuck till 2022 if he holds firm on zero nitrite per the old rules
 
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MnFish1

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I've noticed that you will go for pages downing other's findings while never supplementing them with links of tanks you've worked in, or findings you've made directly, or patterns you've noticed and collected from other's measures. What you're doing to Taricha's work thread is unacceptable, I'm so sorry for his thread even if he doesn't mind what you did in it. I can't interact with you here due to that tendency, I think you use and relay bad science to aquarists and it will be cumulatively harmful in their journey.

I relay the most pressing issues to the cyclers who are misplacing their focus, and that's ok to do as is. no special forums needed, to continue as is and use examples posted by others is working well.
I was trying to be helpful. Settle down. I spend most of my time here answering questions having nothing to do with @taricha. I suggested it might be a good idea to have a separate topic for Cycling and QT - because these are very much discussed here - and lead to a lot of repetition.

After all 'QT' is not a 'fish disease'. QT is a method or procedure for PREVENTING disease. It seems like alot of the questions in the fish disease forum turn into a debate about 'QT issues' (i.e. if you had QT'd you wouldn't have this issue, etc). Now, alot of your cycling posts say 'well we have it all figured out, just concentrate on QT'). It was not meant as a slam against you personally. But - I'm sorry to say - to me - I won't speak for others - its irritating to have a question abut nitrite turned into 'new cycling science has all the answers' - and concentrate on fish disease control. It seems to show up in quite a few threads..... Perhaps I'm wrong.

@taricha and @Dan P have been complimented multiple times by me. They are big boys - They can complain or send me a PM if they want. Maybe you missed those posts. I also said I'm planning a different study - and will post the proposed methods - and let it be ripped apart before I do it.

I've also agreed with 90 percent of what you've said about cycling. It was only my opinion that having a dedicated 'cycling' topic' - with stickies - would be beneficial to everyone. Guess what - I can have an opinion right? Its a discussion board.
 
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