Zero Nitrates

[Hairyteeth]

As long as you are checking once in a while with a reliable kit, dosing both is fine. It's just not typically the case that phosphate ever drops suddenly just because nitrate is increased. It takes a lot of nitrate to cause the depletion of 0.2 ppm phosphate. Maybe more than you have dosed.

I’m testing both pretty regularly, was daily…..I’d have to look back at my notes to see how long it took them to drop down, I think I actually caught them at .05
I just checked my notes, they were at .2 when I started to dose neonitro

When I really started logging the nitrates were 0 and phosphates .14

It took one month of approx 40-50ml of neonitro daily before phosphates hit .06 and nitrates 9
Also added a decent amount of ab+ as well during that time

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, I'd personally back off significantly from daily testing, and recommend keep values within these ranges. Feeding more is easy if both are low.

Randy’s Thoughts on Nutrient Target Ranges

Thoughts on Nutrient Target Ranges by Randy Holmes-Farley Almost nothing in the world of reef aquarium chemistry causes as much discussion as selecting and maintaining ranges for nitrate and phosphate. Some aquarists want low targets, some want...

www.reef2reef.com

4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:

• Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
• Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
• Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
• Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.

 

[Hairyteeth]

OK, I'd personally back off significantly from daily testing, and recommend keep values within these ranges. Feeding more is easy if both are low.

Randy’s Thoughts on Nutrient Target Ranges

Thoughts on Nutrient Target Ranges by Randy Holmes-Farley Almost nothing in the world of reef aquarium chemistry causes as much discussion as selecting and maintaining ranges for nitrate and phosphate. Some aquarists want low targets, some want...

www.reef2reef.com

4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:

• Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
• Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
• Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
• Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.

Appreciate the input!!!
I’ve backed off to twice a week testing, which is waaay overkill I know ,

I feed a decent amount but really only have 5 small fish in such a large tank (150) so food input vs coral colony sizes will never keep up I’d imagine

And yes I should add more fish but would have to re quarantine them all as my qt failed and it’s too cold for a garage tank at this time of year

 

[PointerReefs]

Well I raised Nitrate to 10ppm (bit higher than I intended) but it seems my consumption is about 1ppm per day give or take.. going to test more frequently these next 2 weeks to get a better idea of the trend. I’d do 1 week but I’m adding more coral on Friday so I want to make sure I have the right numbers after that addition.. sent in a 2nd ICP to triton’s lab as I started using their MYTE service. Should get results in a few days.. can compare it to Tropic Marin’s ICP I did recently.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well I raised Nitrate to 10ppm

Sounds good to me. :)

 

[fryman]

I’m feeding 1 cube of mysis shrimp daily, sheet of nori, 20ml of AB+ reef energy 40ml live phyto and 1-2 times a week I’ll spot feed a little benereef powder to the LPS, trying to avoid dosing nitrate but it’s certainly going that direction.. maybe I can up my feeding to 2 cubes of mysis and see if it changes. If not I’ll just pull the trigger and dose nitrate.. have a spare pump laying around I believe

Whoa wait, you feed 1 cube of mysis a day in 150gallons? Don't you have any fish?

I have a 120gallon and I feed 5 cubes of frozen food per day, plus 1ts benereef powder, 4 doses of ~1ts pellets on an auto-feeder, and 100ml phyto. All at diff times, but that's each and every day.

If you have no fish, maybe get some and then feed them?

 

[PointerReefs]

I’m feeding 1 cube of mysis shrimp daily, sheet of nori, 20ml of AB+ reef energy 40ml live phyto and 1-2 times a week I’ll spot feed a little benereef powder to the LPS, trying to avoid dosing nitrate but it’s certainly going that direction.. maybe I can up my feeding to 2 cubes of mysis and see if it changes. If not I’ll just pull the trigger and dose nitrate.. have a spare pump laying around I believe

I do have fish. I think 5 cubes would be too much for me but 2 would probably be okay. Current stocking is 4 wrasse 2 firefish 2 tangs (1 is only like 1.5-2”)
2 clowns a royal gramma and a starry blenny. They get half a cube in the morning mixed with some Tdo pellets, 50ml of phyto added at that time as well. Benereef I only add twice a week spot fed. Maybe 1 half a half tsp. 20ml AB+ everyday also a nori sheet for the tangs and blenny daily. Some of the wrasse enjoy it too.

 

[fryman]

Why do you believe 5 cubes is too much?

I have a pair of clowns, pair of firefish, royal gramma, yellow tang, and possom wrasse. Also pair of fire shrimp and a lot of crabs & snails.

Frozen is the biggest meal and when I feed frozen, the food goes everywhere. It's like a food snowstorm in the tank so I'm confident everything gets fed. Nitrates stay about 10ppm, but I have to use 1/4 cup of gfo to keep phosphate just below 0.1ppm. I think that's mostly due to the pellet food tho.

If you are struggling to keep up nitrate, I say feed more frozen. If you want phosphate to rise, feed more pellets. Benereef seems to do a bit of both but maybe more on the phosphate side. That's my impression anyways, maybe others can chime in to confirm?

 

[karakurt]

У меня была очень похожая ситуация. Рыбы было очень мало, а уровни нитратов и фосфатов постоянно падали до нуля.
Я пытался обильно кормить рыбу и добавлять нитраты и фосфаты, но она всё съедала мгновенно.
Затем я постепенно удалил примерно 2/3 Seachem Matrix из своего сампа, и ситуация начала стабилизироваться. В течение следующих нескольких недель я планирую удалить еще немного Matrix, оставив лишь несколько горстей.
Кроме того, несмотря на добавление нитратов и фосфатов, кораллы всё ещё выглядели истощёнными. Недавно я начал добавлять хлорид аммония, и это действительно помогло — ситуация заметно улучшается.

 

[PointerReefs]

Why do you believe 5 cubes is too much?

I have a pair of clowns, pair of firefish, royal gramma, yellow tang, and possom wrasse. Also pair of fire shrimp and a lot of crabs & snails.

Frozen is the biggest meal and when I feed frozen, the food goes everywhere. It's like a food snowstorm in the tank so I'm confident everything gets fed. Nitrates stay about 10ppm, but I have to use 1/4 cup of gfo to keep phosphate just below 0.1ppm. I think that's mostly due to the pellet food tho.

If you are struggling to keep up nitrate, I say feed more frozen. If you want phosphate to rise, feed more pellets. Benereef seems to do a bit of both but maybe more on the phosphate side. That's my impression anyways, maybe others can chime in to confirm?

I guess I just don’t want to overfeed but I’ll increase feedings to 3 cubes a day in 3 feedings see how it goes from there.. benereef has been good for me vs reef roids though haven’t had as much po4 spikes since the switch although sometimes I sprinkle a little reef roids in with it anyways

 

[fryman]

I guess I just don’t want to overfeed but I’ll increase feedings to 3 cubes a day in 3 feedings see how it goes from there.. benereef has been good for me vs reef roids though haven’t had as much po4 spikes since the switch although sometimes I sprinkle a little reef roids in with it anyways

Don't get me wrong, I think it's prudent to go slow, so your first instinct to start at 2 cubes a day seems like a fine idea to me. I would do two cubes for a couple weeks and see how things go. Then if nitrates are still low I'd increase from there. I do suspect that your tank can handle much more frozen food and it will probably benefit your livestock. I see a strong coral feeding response from feeding frozen foods, and I think having lots of food available keeps the fish active (visible and more fun to observe) and seems to lower aggression. But lets not be too hasty when changing stuff.

It used to be everyone was warned against overfeeding because we didn't have so many good options to control nutrient levels so they'd tend to increase at an out of control rate. Nowadays there are tons of options for nutrient control, and seems like you have the opposite problem. So I don't really see a downside for you to increase feeding, so long as you go slow and monitor things.

 

[PointerReefs]

I guess I just don’t want to overfeed but I’ll increase feedings to 3 cubes a day in 3 feedings see how it goes from there.. benereef has been good for me vs reef roids though haven’t had as much po4 spikes since the switch although sometimes I sprinkle a little reef roids in with it anyways

Don't get me wrong, I think it's prudent to go slow, so your first instinct to start at 2 cubes a day seems like a fine idea to me. I would do two cubes for a couple weeks and see how things go. Then if nitrates are still low I'd increase from there. I do suspect that your tank can handle much more frozen food and it will probably benefit your livestock. I see a strong coral feeding response from feeding frozen foods, and I think having lots of food available keeps the fish active (visible and more fun to observe) and seems to lower aggression. But lets not be too hasty when changing stuff.

It used to be everyone was warned against overfeeding because we didn't have so many good options to control nutrient levels so they'd tend to increase at an out of control rate. Nowadays there are tons of options for nutrient control, and seems like you have the opposite problem. So I don't really see a downside for you to increase feeding, so long as you go slow and monitor things.

2 cubes it is.. also been wanting to add an auto feeder for days I work.. I do 12h shifts so it would be nice to know they aren’t missing out on feedings while I’m away. In due time

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

I am looking into ammonia bicarbonate dosing right now… also the product Neonitro from Brightwell. Not sure if there’s a reason to dose nitrate vs. Ammonia, but I’m seeing neonitro is supposedly Alkalinity Neutral as when dosing Ammonia I’ll need to account for Ca and Alk being affected more?

you’re going to pay 10x the money for brightwell that you would for mixing some powdered sodium nitrate from amazon. Huge waste of money

 

[PointerReefs]

I am looking into ammonia bicarbonate dosing right now… also the product Neonitro from Brightwell. Not sure if there’s a reason to dose nitrate vs. Ammonia, but I’m seeing neonitro is supposedly Alkalinity Neutral as when dosing Ammonia I’ll need to account for Ca and Alk being affected more?

you’re going to pay 10x the money for brightwell that you would for mixing some powdered sodium nitrate from amazon. Huge waste of money

Yeah I was just thinking that myself when I was calculating how much I’m dosing rn haha.

 

[Bbio]

My 150 is the same. It’s 4 months old with 120lbs dead rock and 8lbs live rock and has never had any ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates. I let cocktail shrimps completely disintegrate in the tank, dosed ammonia and the ammonia would just bottom out back to 0 with no nitrite or nitrate.

My phosphate shot from 0.04 to 0.12 and I had a diatom bloom and hair algae bloom and I added an urchin, 2 peppermint shrimp (to take care of my Aiptasia), 30 snails, 10 hermit crabs and had no deaths in a month so I added a clown and 5 LPS frags. The clown is eating and lively and the frags have all doubled in size.

Phos came down to 0.09 and a lot of the GHA started dying. There’s still a lot so I added a lawnmower blenny and everyone seems happy and fine for about a month now.

Salinity: 1.026
PH: 8.5
Alk: 7.9
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

 

[PointerReefs]

My 150 is the same. It’s 4 months old with 120lbs dead rock and 8lbs live rock and has never had any ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates. I let cocktail shrimps completely disintegrate in the tank, dosed ammonia and the ammonia would just bottom out back to 0 with no nitrite or nitrate.

My phosphate shot from 0.04 to 0.12 and I had a diatom bloom and hair algae bloom and I added an urchin, 2 peppermint shrimp (to take care of my Aiptasia), 30 snails, 10 hermit crabs and had no deaths in a month so I added a clown and 5 LPS frags. The clown is eating and lively and the frags have all doubled in size.

Phos came down to 0.09 and a lot of the GHA started dying. There’s still a lot so I added a lawnmower blenny and everyone seems happy and fine for about a month now.

Salinity: 1.026
PH: 8.5
Alk: 7.9
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

If you have hair algae or other forms of algae in a large enough quantity they will zero out your nitrate. Sounds like your tank cycled though and is just going through phases.. I’m not too familiar with dry rock but I believe the rock itself will actually absorb a lot of nutrients until it is “wet” or mature in addition to the algae consumption. I’d imagine since you said you got the algae under control now you’d start to see nitrate. Unless like me you aren’t feeding a whole bunch. More fish, more food.