3 out of 9 dead fish.. New hobbyist.. Thoughts on my situation?

[Cell]

When just the new fish die, minus chromis, and the existing fish are fine, I dont think this points to an ammonia/cycling issue.

 

[Dr Jimmy]

We should consider the evidence that exists as far as nitrite. It's far more lethal in freshwater. Far less lethal in saltwater. Granted, we have not been provided with a measurement of nitrite or nitrate as of yet. If you listen to Dr. Tim, he says it's worth testing nitrite... not for the safety of the fish (at least immediately) but because it alerts you to a disturbance in the bacteria.

If an ammonia spike were to blame, I would assume some would be present if tested near the time when the fish died. What we know: ick can kill; ick-x use was provided (but not sure if it was provided as to the directions of use); the fish were newly added but we are not aware of any aggression issues between them; etc. There are mechanisms that are not nitrite that can kill the fish.

 

[andrewey]

@Big G
@4FordFamily

 

[Albertan22]

That’s too much fish load for that tank. It sounds like the tank wasn’t fully cycled or the bioload was just too high. The tank size is also too small for many of those fish. So you have a mishmash of parasites, over crowding, nitrite in the system indicating that the nitrogen cycle isn’t keeping up, medications in the dt, and potentially even dissolved oxygen issues...

 

[josvanmeer]

I don't mean offense by this, but are you using RODI water or tap water? Just asking because my friend who is new to saltwater aquariums is going to use tap water even though I've told him very strongly he should try to use RODI or some form of distilled water.

But if you did use tap water and did a lot of water changes, you may have actually raised the nitrate level (among other things) depending on the quality of your water supply.

I second this, tap water is very detrimental to fish, as there is so much crap in it, even using dechlorinating chemicals to make it "safe" is not necessarily making it safe. RO/DI Water is the way to success in your tank.

 

[Cell]

Full tank shot is always helpful.

 

[MattMilly730]

Could you let us know exactly how much ich-x was applied over what time frame? From my understanding this can be lethal to fish. As far as the remaining fish, are there any signs of disease? If there was ich, I would also recommend getting the fish to a cheap QT tank and putting them through a full treatment. While being treated you can worry about the biological filtration of the display if needed.

If I read correctly you have chromis, blenny and clowns still alive? If so no need for a large QT, cheap petco/petsmart tanks will work great.

On Saturday the 27th I added about 5 teaspoons of ich-x as the directions say 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons.
Sunday the 28th I did a 1/3 water change and added about 5 teaspoons of ich-x again.
So a total of 10 teaspoons within a 30 hour period and Water change

For the remaining fish I see no signs of disease, they are active seem well.

Yes only those fish are alive for now. Im heading out now to get the QT. I will post a pic of the hippo tang when i get back so we can determine if it was actual Ich.

 

[MattMilly730]

I second this, tap water is very detrimental to fish, as there is so much crap in it, even using dechlorinating chemicals to make it "safe" is not necessarily making it safe. RO/DI Water is the way to success in your tank.

I used tap water and put API tap water conditioner. water levels read fine at first for the first month. So far I did 2 water changes.

I do not have a RO/DI system in my house, I would have to purchase the jugs of water. Which I do not mind doing, I just thought the water conditioners would be finee.

 

[Fred2482]

The amount of ich-x seems like no problem.

 

[MattMilly730]

I'll start with some basic procedures that will help or at the least, won't interrupt any future plans.

1) Pull the dead fish from the tank
2) If you have any forms of aeration, I would start those now (oxygen stone, skimmer, pointing powerheads at the surface of the water).
3) Read up on a freshwater dip. You may or may not receive the suggestion to FW dip the fish depending on if they think this is ammonia vs. ich vs. velvet, so I would hold off, but read up now so you have that tool in your back pocket if needed.
4) Be ready to have a QT set up. Do you have acess to more SW? You may want to drop a heater into it now so you can use down the road for QT or for water changes if need be. Worst case scenario is you waste 30 cents in electricity warming that water. If you don't have water ready, start making some water if you have a RODI.

What foods do you have on hand? Frozen? Nori? Do you have any vitamin supplements on hand by chance (e.g. selcon)?

Andrew!

1) Pull the dead fish from the tank ---- Fish have been pulled!
2) If you have any forms of aeration, I would start those now (oxygen stone, skimmer, pointing powerheads at the surface of the water). --- Done!
3) Read up on a freshwater dip. You may or may not receive the suggestion to FW dip the fish depending on if they think this is ammonia vs. ich vs. velvet, so I would hold off, but read up now so you have that tool in your back pocket if needed. ---- Will look into this. deff is always good to have the knowledge ready to go.
4) Be ready to have a QT set up. Do you have acess to more SW? You may want to drop a heater into it now so you can use down the road for QT or for water changes if need be. Worst case scenario is you waste 30 cents in electricity warming that water. If you don't have water ready, start making some water if you have a RODI. ------ I can make up some water but I do not have RODI. Should I not make water and rather purchase it?

No Vitamin supplements but I feed the fish only frozen foods.

 

[MattMilly730]

Full tank shot is always helpful.

Mean like a pic of my tank?Or is this something for the tank lol my bad

 

[brandon429]

Here's how cycling applies to this tank's issues:

an uncycled tank can't keep any fish past a few days.
ammonia toxicity has a price.

once you're past a few days with fish in place you're cycled or they'd be dead. There is no half or partial cycle, a reef tank is either cycled and can carry its full complement of fish or its not cycled, and they'll die in a couple days in a cloudy stinky haze

Cycled means you can change all the water, put the fish back in, and they still live until disease kills them (Dr Reef measured bottle bac efficacy by changing all dosed water shortly after addition, then testing for ammonia oxidation-they passed, bacteria adhered to rocks = cycled)

Disease is the issue here not cycling. whether or not any param other than ammonia factors in 2020 cycling science is up for debate, and so are the testers giving the readings here.

The tank needs fallow, quarantine, disease managment, and a seneye meter to reveal the true ammonia dynamics allowing 60+ days of fish keeping (whereas incompletely cycled tanks kill all animals in a couple days max)


no cycle in reefing stalls or sticks. Im aware of youtube videos from MACNA that says they do, but thats just stuff for sale, to us. Knowing that a cycle doesnt factor here allows you to go after what matters, to stop fish loss.

because cycles do not ever stall in reefing, you can eliminate something from your hunt confidently. all forms of inspection benefit from not wasting time on dead ends.


3/9 over 60 days means you're cycled.
9/9 dead within 48 hours means not cycled.

any midground is skipping fallow

you wouldnt need to add any source of bacteria, or rely on false nitrite tests to make a claim about your bacteria, since you do NOT have a cycling issue or any shortage of cycling bacteria.

 

[SPR1968]

For a tank as new as this to have ich, it might be worth looking into the source if your fish, and if you can’t quarantee the quality and health, you will need to run full quarantine procedures and you will certainly need to do something in the current tank to clear the disease out of it. if you don’t more and more animals will just die unfortunately.

There seems so many things going on here, that I really wonder if it’s worth doing a full reset with the tank, because it’s a size that its relatively easy to do, and temporary rehouse the fish.

Running a marine tank shouldn’t be this difficult and there are so many things going on........ You shouldn’t really have nitrites at that level either

If it were me, I would temporarily rehouse the fish, probably in quarantine in view of the situation. If you don’t know how to do this ask the LFS who sold you the fish, and also ask them what procedures if any they have to guarantee healthy fish. If they can’t answer then....

While there in quarantine empty the tank, and then clean it out thoroughly. When the fish are in good health fill the tank back up, add some ATM Colony or similar and put the fish back in straight away. But don’t put anything in that’s diseased or potentially diseased or you will be back to the start.

I don’t quarantine either of my tanks. BUT, that’s because I trust the sources of my fish, but I’m in the UK so that’s maybe slightly different here, I don’t know.

 

[Big G]

Sorry for your losses. Poor fish

Are you running carbon within the canister filters?

 

[brandon429]

Cell

if a tester says it, we as a hobby buy the claim lock, stock and barrel. we will take any manner of side investigation, investment, redirection solely off one reading from an unverified test kit.

we used to do that for all API stated .25's too, that is until seneye came along and made cycle authors look like they were making guesses for the last 20 years, which they were lol.

 

[Cell]

I just cant believe all the cookie cutter responses with a disregard for the actual evidence. It seems like any time someone has any sort of trouble with a tank/livestock that's fewer than 2 or 3 months old, the auto response is "cycling" issue. This does not serve the OP nor the hobby.

 

[brandon429]

We are inundated with stalled cycle videos on the web which adds to the confusion. here's one:





if Im not mistaken, that video says reef tank water doesnt have many nitrifiers/or any

but then we did this:

Connecting Established Reef To New Tank

EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...

www.reef2reef.com

cycling rules are evolving nicely as the days go by.

Not any cycle has stalled in reefing, i wanted to post an opposite claim to that video above. we have several work threads behind the claim, but thats the general updated info per cycle nerds online.

you dont have to coax, measure, or hope a cycle completes, they all complete. It takes entire industries to keep bacteria out of water; only the reef hobby claims minor mistakes makes a cycle not complete.

if we are using testers that can't reveal the true dynamics of a cycle we need to be told that from the top down.

 

[4FordFamily]

For a tank as new as this to have ich, it might be worth looking into the source if your fish, and if you can’t quarantee the quality and health, you will need to run full quarantine procedures and you will certainly need to do something in the current tank to clear the disease out of it. if you don’t more and more animals will just die unfortunately.

There seems so many things going on here, that I really wonder if it’s worth doing a full reset with the tank, because it’s a size that its relatively easy to do, and temporary rehouse the fish.

Running a marine tank shouldn’t be this difficult and there are so many things going on........ You shouldn’t really have nitrites at that level either

If it were me, I would temporarily rehouse the fish, probably in quarantine in view of the situation. If you don’t know how to do this ask the LFS who sold you the fish, and also ask them what procedures if any they have to guarantee healthy fish. If they can’t answer then....

While there in quarantine empty the tank, and then clean it out thoroughly. When the fish are in good health fill the tank back up, add some ATM Colony or similar and put the fish back in straight away. But don’t put anything in that’s diseased or potentially diseased or you will be back to the start.

I don’t quarantine either of my tanks. BUT, that’s because I trust the sources of my fish, but I’m in the UK so that’s maybe slightly different here, I don’t know.

I agree. And to add further clarification, almost no sources will provide you disease-free fish. I'd count on you handling it yourself. For quarantine, I'd invest in Biospira to assist with cycling the tank. You'll need to have a "sponge media" for them to populate as well.

 

[Doctorgori]

Could be this, could be that ...lots of advice to sift through ....
here are some thoughts ...

Those”dollar per gallon” sale had me re-think. Quarantine. The price of one fish Usually exceeds a 29G or a 20L ... 30” length is usually adequate for most juvenile species sizes ... If space is a issue, find a temporary space FWIW

...too many fish For a 55? ...no argument here ... I’d also avoid “ich magnet” species for a few months regardless

Use of Tap water is relative: Do you live deep in Rockies or Smoky mts? Or Do you live in Flint MI or Love Canal NY ? I wouldn’t use it continually, but As they say: “1 time don’t make no case“

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hate to state this but ........
Nine fish in 6 weeks? Canister filter is somewhat inadequate especially for the bioload placed on tank
I seriously would invest in a hang on back sump and filter unit for hopeful success and keep the water tests going over the next few weeks. As suggested, carbon such as chemipure blue will help with water quality greatly