A Huge Problem IMO as to why tanks crash and we have so many problems with just about everything.

[Paul B]

I just take a few tablespoons from any muddy place but not if it is black just below the surface.
I used to take it from here. Now since I moved the mud is different and just under the surface is hydrogen sulfide and I don't want that so I scrape mud just from the very top of the sand.

Just don't take it if it smells or has a sheen from gas or oil or if you notice a dead body that looks like Jimmy Hoffa.
If you run a quarantined tank, I don't think you should do this because that is not a natural system and it has to remain an un natural system.



Now I take it from here.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

Excellent write up @Paul B. Thanks for sharing your insights and experiences!

 

[Paul B]

I just saw this new thread pop up on this forum and this is the way it goes too many times.
It's about a tank that was dosed with Cuprimine. It just started so I don't know how it will turn out but I hope his fish recovers.
Quote:

All fish have been in for 2 weeks, first week was observation and then the naso showed a few speck so started cupramine. Spots went, got a bit of lympho which has also now gone. Raised copper slowly over a week but the naso has now stopped eating for the past 2/3 days. Before he was eating enriched brine, mysis, krill flake sometimes with selcon. Now hes hiding in his cave with the occasional swim round but no interest in feeding.
End Quote

I don't know what type of tank this is or what method was used at first, I just find it interesting that so many tanks have these problems and it then becomes a race to see what medication to use and it goes on and on.
I wish I could change it as I hate to see sick fish.

 

[AdamD76]

Ok, so you just take a few tablespoons. I was thinking I needed 5 gallon bucket but a small mason jar will be easier. I will probably still grab a few buckets of water with seaweed to add to the tank.

 

[Paul B]

One more thing while I am waiting for my dentist to wake up.
Fish poop in the water constantly. Poop is basically bacteria and it is the very bacteria that fish need as it was just digesting food in their gut. They even eat it. ;Yuck

When we treat water, we also kill that and that is not in new ASW.
We would get sick or maybe die on it, but most of us are not fish. That stuff is recycled in a tank and it helps fish keep the proper envirnment in their stomach.

We humans are now experimenting with transferring poop from healthy people to sick people.

I didn't make that up.

 

[sp1187]

good read Mr. B.
apparently I'm doing some things right, and need to change a few things.

 

[Herndonh75]

Most fish don't have facial expressions like Angelina Jolie

Haha!!! Love that quote!!!

 

[sp1187]

and I think I may have gotten the explanation on why my six line died. egg bound?

 

[Doctorgori]

Paul I’m sure your tanks are more bio-diverse than most current “dry rock” based tanks; from bacterial all the way to pod sized critters. I have a mix of both Dry and real reef and just looking underneath the “pest free” cycled dry rock you don’t see nearly the life you do when comparing/viewing real reef rock; fewer sponges, no macro algae, et.
I haven’t see those ubiquitous white feather dusters in years. I Wonder how much natural filtration modern day tanks are missing

 

[Paul B]

. I Wonder how much natural filtration modern day tanks are missing

Probably most of it. Whenever I buy a coral or rock, which I have not bought in decades, I always ask for any pieces of broken corals, seaweed, detritus, empty shells or anything I find on the bottom of their tanks just for the diversity. Even stuff from the bottom of their sumps because that stuff always has sponges and other things from the collector. Not in their fish tanks because those are always treated with some sort of anti parasitic medication because they are trying to sell fish and that stuff is needed in a store tank otherwise, everything would die as those tanks can't be natural or they couldn't catch fish.

Again, if you run a quarantined system, don't do that.

 

[Paul B]

and I think I may have gotten the explanation on why my six line died. egg bound?

Fish that fat are egg bound and beyond pregnant.

Haha!!! Love that quote!!!

I love Angilina Jolie, but she ignores me.

 

[Awesome Dennis]

One more thing while I am waiting for my dentist to wake up.
Fish poop in the water constantly. Poop is basically bacteria and it is the very bacteria that fish need as it was just digesting food in their gut. They even eat it. ;Yuck

When we treat water, we also kill that and that is not in new ASW.
We would get sick or maybe die on it, but most of us are not fish. That stuff is recycled in a tank and it helps fish keep the proper envirnment in their stomach.

We humans are now experimenting with transferring poop from healthy people to sick people.

I didn't make that up.

Funny you say that lol!



Is there anything you can do for egg bound? I just lost my beautiful melanarus wrasse which was super bloated looking.

 

[NashobaTek]

I need to have my uncle get me some stuff from the gulf coast.

 

[Paul B]

I also think that we forget, or never knew that all fish are covered in slime. That reminds me of an old girlfriend, but I digress.

The slime is a wonderful substance and helps fish in a number of ways. It isn't just there so the fish can squeeze into a tight place or free itself from our hands.

It actually evolved way before I was born, millions of years ago. Prehistoric "fish" probably didn't have slime but when some of them decided to slither out of the water to live on land and eventually turn into Duck Billed Platypuses and Aardvarks slime was needed to keep them damp.

I am not sure why the smart fish who decided to stay in the water developed slime but it is a part of the fish. A "living " part unlike our skin which is dead. Maybe thats where "Dead Heads" came from. Our outer skin is dead so we can keep in moisture but a fishes skin actually breathes.

They can absorb and eliminate some chemicals such as pheromones to attract Supermodel fish.
The skin of a fish, because of it's "living slime" heals very fast without leaving a scar.

If we play Rap music and run naked through a maze of barbed wire, we will be all bloody and not able to get a date. Those cuts and scratches will take a long time to heal because our waterproof skin will first have to send white blood cells and determine the damage among other things, then call in other chemicals to stop the blood flow, then start to "weave" a scab which will stay there until the skin heals which could take until you grow up, pay your own bills and move out of your Dads basement.

Fish, due to their "living slime" heal right away with no scab and no scar.

But the main job of the slime is to completely cover the fish in antibodies and antiparasitic substances.
Even in their gills and down their throat.

It's complicated and I can't explain the entire process now so work with me.
Slime is constantly created because it is water soluble and continuously washes away.
That is one way it repels parasites, they just wash off.

When I was a kid we lived near Manhattan and once a year there was the Feast of Saint Genaro.
Anyway, these 5 or so men wearing women's dresses would try to climb a tall pole which was covered in thick grease in the middle of the intersection. It was disgusting but when one got to the top, they would throw down prizes to the crowd.

I think of that whenever I think of fish slime.
The slime along with the antibiotic and antiparasitic chemicals must be constantly renewed. Imagine if we had to constantly renew our skin. I can't even renew my hair,

When we fail to expose our fish to pathogens, they will still make slime, but the slime will be devoid of those substances which are the fishes immunity and the fish will be susceptible to virtually everything.

If you don't use it you lose it. It is a huge burden on fish to constantly manufacture that slime along with all that is in it.
Couple that with developing eggs constantly as female fish do and you can see that an enormous amount of calories goes to those two tasks. The rest of the calories goes to growth.

A female fish can make eggs that can be a third the weight of the fish and those eggs are mostly oil.
Can you imagine a human woman giving birth to a 40lb baby every few weeks. Even worse, can you imagine living with her and the money you will spend on ice cream, baby showers, diapers etc.

You can see why the proper diet is essential, not only because of the immunity I discussed but all the oil a fish has to make to develop eggs.

Flakes, pellets and freeze dries whatever won't do it.

That is the reason most fish in aquariums don't develop eggs like fish in the sea "always" do.
There is no such thing as a wild female fish that is not pregnant.

That is also the reason I say that if you have a pair of fish that can spawn in a tank, and they are not spawning, they are not healthy. Sorry, but it is what it is.

If you disagree send me a SASE and I will steam off the stamp and throw the envelope away.

References.
An old guy

 

[SmokenFunny]

I have a 40 cube remote sump that goes into the main fuge. It has 1” of mud,chaeto and some mangroves. Me like

 

[SmokenFunny]

Tank is a year old. Minimal cyano and diatoms. Paul is onto something

 

[robbyg]

Love your post @Paul B. As you might already know I have been keeping reef tanks for 35+ years and I have been Scuba Diving for 40 years.

I think we both agree on many thing like NOT Quarantining fish and corals very often to also having good luck with keeping fish and corals for years. Where I think we differ is that while I do believe a "dirty tank" can be great for fish as I have seen some of the most rich and diversely populated ocean environments not far from the mouths of rivers. Of note and to your point, visibility is only 5-10 feet but the fish are just about everywhere. On the flip side the corals in those areas are not very diverse and do not look very healthy.

My experience has been that the best looking and healthy corals are found in the most pristine water.
So while I think a "dirty Tank" is great for FOWLR use I am not so certain I would go that route with a tank that has SPS and LPS corals in it.

 

[musicreef]

Thanks for your insight Paul.
I never have liked siphoning gravel and performing water changes, that's it for me.

 

[bevo5]

Great read. As a writer, I very much enjoy your tone of voice.

I also agree with a many of your concepts...except I will say that our tanks lack something that the ocean has in it's favor: Scale.

A fish that might come across ich in the ocean will have to fight it off and move on with his fish life. In our tanks, that same fish will then be re-infected again and again and again with greater and greater numbers. One cyst in the ocean landing on a fish is bad luck, but there is no escaping the countless cysts swirling around our tanks once things really take off.

Generally speaking, I'm going to put your knowledge and expertise in the 1% of all reef keepers. You're much more able to identify and prevent issues from getting out of control. For most people, their best bet to keeping fish alive beyond the first week or two is treating things like ich/flukes/velvet with a more hands-on approach. I think one thing that has changed over the past 30 years is that more and more fish are coming in with truly bad issues. EVERY fish I've gotten over the past few months has had flukes. Two showed ich within a few days. Unfortunately, it's just the state of the hobby right now that fish are simply unhealthier by the time they get to us.

All of that ocean water also helps with the frankfurter runoff, and the fish poop, and the human poop. A quick google search shows the ocean has a phosphate level of .07. Great - but there's no way we're going to keep it that low without some form of constant intervention. The ratio of fish waste to water has to be astronomically higher in our tanks. Sure the ocean has whale sharks and a trillion sardines, but I only have 200 gallons to work with and I love tangs.

I'm also old - not as old as you (haha sorry) - but I've had tanks for 30years. I definitely agree that things have changed to the point where just tossing a fish in the tank after a quick float is dang near blasphemy and maybe we're all helicopter-parenting these fish a bit too much. But...I've also had a tank get wiped out and it's not worth it to me to roll the dice on a new fish without some form of preventative measures.

I'd be very interested in hearing more about your feeding practices, and how you supplement the diets with which type of live foods etc. I want to do much more of that and I could not agree more that those foods are the key to keeping these little guys happy.

Great read! Thank you.

 

[brandon429]

we still have a direct example of a need, a work thread, where these tenets are yet to be applied live time for validation. quick reminder there/page 1

secondarily, for sandbed claims its important to state the fact that there are massive problems with them across forums when left unchecked, when dealing in per 100 a large majority of the hands off sandbeds are the ones seeking out our sand rinse thread to fix them, by tap water rinsing the entire sandbed at once. the total cleanliness fixes the issues, it doesnt cause more, we're out to 35 pages of work examples.

although at-home systems occasionally deep cleaned like when you moved homes, and ran as RUGF which is not like any other sandbed on this board might run long term without much extra help, the ones we see on forums do not--per 100. *am aware apparently the masses do sandbeds wrong and there are better ways, but again the place to apply that statement is where the help is needed.



we have work threads for sandbeds/dinos needing help too.