Ammonia in INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS

[allsite]

First off, I'll just say I'm one sad fish dad. One by one my fish and corals are dying. It's my first reef and my 5 fish were buddies for 2 years. Not a single death until this week.

INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS crashed my reef with ammonia. I didn't believe it at first but the tests feel conclusive.

The picture with 2 tubes:
Left: RODI+salt mix (from a pitcher of water with a drop of AmmoLock)
Right: RODI+salt mix

The picture with 1 tube:
Just RODI

Is it in my bucket? Nope, I tested it with a clean pitcher, exact same result. Nothing else touches the water prior to testing.

I have 2 boxes of mix that were ordered several months apart. One brand new, the other about 4 months old. They BOTH produced the same result (as seen in the pic).

All of the tests were done to water that was tank-ready, salinity and temp on par. I'm happy I didn't dump it into the tank but that also mean I'm just letting it die until I get new salt first thing tomorrow. I really hope AmmoLock and bacteria additives can save what little is left (1 clown and a few frags).

My tank is currently testing better than the right tube and worse than the left (forgot to take a photo but it's somewhat irrelevant in this thread).

My question is, how is it possible INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS could produce 0.7ppm ammonia seawater? They're just selling poison? Is that not the point when doing a water change, to remove bad stuff while introducing good stuff?

It was traumatic to watch it crash after enjoying it to the max, stuck in a small apartment downtown during a pandemic. However I realize other reefers have incurred much bigger losses and my heart goes out to anyone who has to go through it.

 

[allsite]

Electric Current in reef tank.

What effects if any does electric current have on tanks biofilter and water chemistry?

www.reef2reef.com

 

[MnFish1]

PS - did I read that you did a 70 percent water change in the following manner:

1. You drained the 70 percent.
2. You created the RODI water which took hours
3. You mixed the salt
4. You added to tank?
5. Did you at one point say you were also using tap water?

This is the way that I read it
?

 

[MnFish1]

oh, ha gotcha @Gtinnel, I better go outside and get sun today v trouble shoot here plus I just saw he mentioned something about electrical issues that sounds concerning for safety. Have gfci / be safe


MN yes agreed on spikes for sure, just not sustains for days

Don't you think the 'sustain for days' was the ammo-lock?

 

[zalick]

Electric Current in reef tank.

What effects if any does electric current have on tanks biofilter and water chemistry?

www.reef2reef.com

Interesting. So current doesn’t kill anything directly But the resultant chemistry potentially creating chlorine or copper released to water could.

@Randy Holmes-Farley Do you think the current could be the issue in this tank?

 

[allsite]

PS - did I read that you did a 70 percent water change in the following manner:

1. You drained the 70 percent.
2. You created the RODI water which took hours
3. You mixed the salt
4. You added to tank?
5. Did you at one point say you were also using tap water?

This is the way that I read it
?

1-4 correct. I do not use tap water.

 

[MnFish1]

You weren't the one who made the generalized statement that I was responding to. It was the person who told you to put dead fish in your tank and see how it goes that I was replying to.
I agree with most if not everything you mentioned in this thread. I think this hobby would be better off if API would quit making ammonia tests. There are way too many times where a hobbiest has an issue in their tank, sees a small amount of ammonia on the test and jumps to rash conclusions, and starts trying to fix their problem in ways that make their situation even worse.

I use exclusively API tests, which IMHO are just as usefulTake as the rest. As mentioned before, I don't test ammonia, nitrite. In fact I haven't tested PO4 or Nitrate for weeks. IMHO, the problem is people rely on 'tests' too much as compared to 'their own eyes'. IMHO this is what Brandon was talking about. Secondly, it seems like people believe 'the number' as if its perfect. Anything that is being read by 'eyeballs' has a huge margin of error potentially. BUT that margin of error is designed so as not to be 'significant' from a fish health perspective.

 

[Garf]

1-4 correct. I do not use tap water.

So your temp probe is out of the water for hours?

 

[MnFish1]

1-4 correct. I do not use tap water.

That is interesting. How did you keep your filter, flow, temp stable for the hours that the RODI was mixing?

IMHO, the problem was your method here that caused your problem - and it could be any number of things (again just my opinion) - and I'm only saying this to prevent any of those problems in the future.

1. Have RODI prepared ahead of time - and verify a 0 TDS before using it to mix salt.
2. Mix your salt with a powerhead, etc such that it is well mixed and aerated according to directions. the particular brand of salt I use recommends mixing overnight. Some people do this for days, which is also against the 'directions' on certain salts. I just would follow the directions.
3. Verify the salinity. (some check Alkalinity, etc) I do not
4. Match the temp.
5. take the water out of your tank, and replace with the new.

This avoids problems with Temp, oxygenation, other gasses, rapid electrolyte/alkalinity changes, etc etc etc. hope this helps

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

This has gotten so interesting from a troubleshooting perspective. I would still reach out to IO on the batch number as I think thats abnormally high ammonia level for mixed SW but yeah given the new information clearly not the culprit.

Sorry Brandon if things got heated but its why I called you and randy into the thread in the first place. Circumstances seemed strange and I still don't think we can put this under the disease category.

 

[allsite]

That is interesting. How did you keep your filter, flow, temp stable for the hours that the RODI was mixing?

IMHO, the problem was your method here that caused your problem - and it could be any number of things (again just my opinion) - and I'm only saying this to prevent any of those problems in the future.

1. Have RODI prepared ahead of time - and verify a 0 TDS before using it to mix salt.
2. Mix your salt with a powerhead, etc such that it is well mixed and aerated according to directions. the particular brand of salt I use recommends mixing overnight. Some people do this for days, which is also against the 'directions' on certain salts. I just would follow the directions.
3. Verify the salinity. (some check Alkalinity, etc) I do not
4. Match the temp.
5. take the water out of your tank, and replace with the new.

This avoids problems with Temp, oxygenation, other gasses, rapid electrolyte/alkalinity changes, etc etc etc. hope this helps

Very helpful. I’ll grab some extra buckets so I can prep more mix prior to draining water. I was able to get it to about 60% quickly and the other 40% took hours. The canister filter was going the whole time but you’re correct to assume other devices were offline.

 

[zalick]

Very helpful. I’ll grab some extra buckets so I can prep more mix prior to draining water. I was able to get it to about 60% quickly and the other 40% took hours. The canister filter was going the whole time but you’re correct to assume other devices were offline.

So hours with no heater and a smaller volume of water? What volume would you estimate was hours without a heater?

 

[MnFish1]

Very helpful. I’ll grab some extra buckets so I can prep more mix prior to draining water. I was able to get it to about 60% quickly and the other 40% took hours. The canister filter was going the whole time but you’re correct to assume other devices were offline.

were the other things entirely 'off', ie, heater? We don't know which other devices you have. A skimmer? Other flow? Are you sure the canister filter was going the whole time?

 

[Cell]

Too many variables here, it really could have been a combination of things. 13 pages in and we are still fact-finding on what and how changes were made. It's sounding more and more like operator error though than anything else.

 

[allsite]

were the other things entirely 'off', ie, heater? We don't know which other devices you have. A skimmer? Other flow? Are you sure the canister filter was going the whole time?

2 powerheads and intank skimmer were offline. 100% sure the canister was going the entire time. It was very loud splashing.

 

[Garf]

2 powerheads and intank skimmer were offline. 100% sure the canister was going the entire time. It was very loud splashing.

Heater?

 

[allsite]

Are we dismissing the current?

Heater?

Inline heater was on. The heater in the pic came later after I broke the inline on accident

 

[allsite]

Are we dismissing the electrical current? I linked some science on it producing chorine and copper. When I say current, I’m not talking about stray/induced voltage.

 

[MnFish1]

Are we dismissing the current?

Inline heater was on. The heater in the pic came later after I broke the inline on accident

I think this boils down to stability is key. I think you can see how potentially numerous things were 'unstable' over several hours. Whether oxygenation, temperature, salinity, salt mixing, etc, etc - there could have been major swings in any of those parameters. Even a 70 percent water change in a tank with coral is 'a lot'. Next time - I would think of ways to keep things as close to identical throughout the whole process, temp, salinity, etc.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Edit:May be missing information...

Assuming you are using a water proof dsb18b20 I would doubt it could provide enough current and power to cause a decline as you are suggesting. Any that I have had break in the past took around 3 months to short and it was apparent on the outside of the sensor it was rusted and breaking. If you are getting readings then its not the sensor.

 

[Cell]

Wasn't the sandbed disturbed at some point in this process as well? If you disturbed the sandbed, then drained 70% of the water and left it for hours then I can see where you might have some major issues as a result.