Ammonia

brandon429

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The truth is our hobby is not in agreement on how cycles work yet, we don't have the testing that aligns everyone correctly for analysis so this leaves a lot of room for study/assumption/attributions as best everyone can do

I make my claims solely off logged patterns. I could be 100% wrong, these cycles may be dead broken- but we need to keep logging these instances of months-old tank+ red sea = ammonia alert


*I would consider your cycle broken if it kept free ammonia nh3 above .009 for days vs a few hours max, at the peak degradation point for that rotting snail meat. Your tests above indicate higher than .009 nh3 so by most standards, that's a broken cycle above. ( I picked that range bc 99% of all seneyes on running reef tanks will never show that value, it's upper end safety on that meter)

where I come in is the full tank picture: shows common surface area, already tested in digital setups to resolve any ammonia issues in 10 minutes. yet here, days on end no control


that smells like something is missing from the truth in my opinion, how is your whole tank not dead days ago> each day it runs, with no control over ammonia?

second question still being determined: do reef tanks permit hovering levels of ammonia, slightly unsafe levels, OR do they all drive down ammonia into the known safe ranges because we're all modeling the same setup basically with a rock stack + circulating waterwater? What if crashes are real, tangible, obvious events that need no tester to determine and they're not some teetering loss about to happen, that only a $12 test kit can warn us about


I figure if we link enough together folks who are good at reading patterns will figure out the actual mechanisms

I have never, not once in my life, seen an ammonia alert thread comprised of seneye owners and there must be about ten thousand of those now on reef tanks.

when we get spotty noncompliance issues occasionally off a seneye, we find issues with the meter/slide setup not the actual cycle.


even if Im wrong and your snail mass kept leaking massive ppm ammonia for weeks here, it's simply amazing the tank looks, runs, smells normal, carries life daily, and only a red sea meter says an alert is warranted. that's exactly what we study above

seneye owners never have trouble in the first week with the cycle, and zero cycle issues exist documented on seneye at month 3 in a nano reef. the conflict in these test kits + the resulting action from the owners is another pattern we study.
 
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Chucky

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The truth is our hobby is not in agreement on how cycles work yet, we don't have the testing that aligns everyone correctly for analysis so this leaves a lot of room for study/assumption/attributions as best everyone can do

I make my claims solely off logged patterns. I could be 100% wrong, these cycles may be dead broken- but we need to keep logging these instances of months-old tank+ red sea = ammonia alert


*I would consider your cycle broken if it kept free ammonia nh3 above .009 for days vs a few hours max, at the peak degradation point for that rotting snail meat. Your tests above indicate higher than .009 nh3 so by most standards, that's a broken cycle above. ( I picked that range bc 99% of all seneyes on running reef tanks will never show that value, it's upper end safety on that meter)

where I come in is the full tank picture: shows common surface area, already tested in digital setups to resolve any ammonia issues in 10 minutes. yet here, days on end no control


that smells like something is missing from the truth in my opinion, how is your whole tank not dead days ago> each day it runs, with no control over ammonia?

second question still being determined: do reef tanks permit hovering levels of ammonia, slightly unsafe levels, OR do they all drive down ammonia into the known safe ranges because we're all modeling the same setup basically with a rock stack + circulating waterwater? What if crashes are real, tangible, obvious events that need no tester to determine and they're not some teetering loss about to happen, that only a $12 test kit can warn us about


I figure if we link enough together folks who are good at reading patterns will figure out the actual mechanisms

I have never, not once in my life, seen an ammonia alert thread comprised of seneye owners and there must be about ten thousand of those now on reef tanks.

when we get spotty noncompliance issues occasionally off a seneye, we find issues with the meter/slide setup not the actual cycle.


even if Im wrong and your snail mass kept leaking massive ppm ammonia for weeks here, it's simply amazing the tank looks, runs, smells normal, carries life daily, and only a red sea meter says an alert is warranted. that's exactly what we study above

seneye owners never have trouble in the first week with the cycle, and zero cycle issues exist documented on seneye at month 3 in a nano reef. the conflict in these test kits + the resulting action from the owners is another pattern we study.
Okay this is kinda off topic of ammonia but why am I showing nitrites with api and Red Sea test kits and fairly high levels of nitrates?
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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I would need to see your nitrites measured on a hanna digital meter to know status, I accept nothing from color compare chart kits as useful due to reasons listed, confounds unstated many times in the parameter assessment using those type of kits. Nitrite status at the time of digital measurement would have no bearing on your implementation of fish disease controls, to meet the needs for this thread-but I'm interested to know what nitrite actually does during shock challenge events when folks have hanna digital nitrite checkers to use in reporting

We simply do not own nitrite test kits/run them on marine display setups in updated cycling science threads so we would have never factored that condition, even if read by hanna.


*I realize it sounds webguy convenient to just disavow the major rules of cycling / don't test for nitrite/ lol but let me show you a post to skim for wins v fails as the reason why: exact start date science.

I think we know the date for any reef ahead of time, before the build, that it will carry fish such that waiting any longer past the assigned date can't make the tank safer to carry fish/life/bioload, only implementing fish disease controls from Jay's forum/humblefish's site will help fish retention %


we earn this consistency, 38 pages of no dead tanks by ignoring nitrite and by factoring # of days underwater, the surface area in play, and visual cues from tank pictures as the call for when a cycle is closed.

we do not use testing

just because everyone keeps posting api and red sea readings here doesn't mean that's factored in assigning their given cycle as done. All I do is look to see how many days underwater any setup has; if they're older than ten days underwater, they're done (comes from the ammonia line on any cycling chart and the fact that all reef cyclers are using boosters that easily meet the ten day mark among a huge stack of rocks / surface area/ dead center in the tank)


the means by which we all copy each other in scale is why that thread keeps working to produce cycled tanks while not using anyone's test levels as the closing date marker.

you are way way past day ten.
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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*I also agree that if any of the reefs in our collection of no test cycles bothered to test ammonia (or nitrite) it would do what yours is doing after a big water change

or a feeding event of note

anything slightly taxing, rearranging some rocks or removing a few.

*what we bring to the offer is a very large pattern set that toxicity is never reached within this variation, I think that's a solid takeaway even the scientists must infer from anecdotal web post collating. we ignored it for years, nobody had losses unrelated to breaking known disease protocols, case closed until a new pattern set undoes the current.

by ignoring the ammonia, we never see those natural spikes that caused your thread though they do happen. all efforts aimed at fish disease will get you the best return on investment



***no matter what the future holds for digital ammonia testing, I believe the future will show that these ratios we copy in each other's tanks of rock stacks in the dead center + current and heat and feed + days underwater in prep will keep free ammonia below toxicity levels even within naturally-varying ranges that currently cause much impact in the reefing community. ammonia control will be a total non issue, like nitrite is now, in 2028 is the bet.

the hobby will have moved onto a new fear-based purchase concept because good testing will open the consumer's eyes to how stable ammonia really is within these high surface area reef displays.
 

brandon429

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Chucky

study this, it's pertinent/relevant / active today not just a link collection I picked up





look at what old cycling science, bothering to care about ammonia control after a reef tank cycle, is doing to that tank keeper

his reef is about three times older than yours...still concerning over ammonia and the kits aren't digital.


does he seem happy in reefing? confident? enjoying his setup?

it's pure bacterial fear for months on end, old cycling science is torturing him and won't let him go. look at the purchases made, the reinforcements given, since his last help post/ammonia alert.

he cannot fathom the notion of simply stop testing for ammonia and nitrite with kits we expect to freak you out.

normally I would not post a direct active study but they don't accept my findings there so getting to watch an alternate method of inspection unfurl live time will be fun. let's see how that broken cycle is certified. let's see how many pages it takes for fish disease to be mentioned
 
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Okay guys and gals I’m so confused here I have done everything I know of to help my issues I’m literally ready to burn this tank to the ground!!! I have done multiple water changes I even did an 80% last Thursday and another 80% wc this past Wednesday I tested last night showing ammonia at 1ppm using api 0 nitrite and 20 nitrate today I test and 1ppm ammonia back to .025 nitrite and almost 50 nitrate!! I have lost 2 acans other corals wasn’t doing well so pulled them and put them in my wife’s 15g cube with a
$40 led blue/white corallife led light and they’re absolutely thriving the very next day!! My Duncan’s in my tank won’t fully open my candy canes won’t get puffy my nems won’t open fully
However my toadstool and devils hands has polypls and my big zoa colony opens up full the small zoa colony won’t open at all my 1 hairy mushroom I kept in my tank is barley open. The only thing I changed through out the past few weeks was I swapped to the deadlights 10hr schedule for my ai prime in 15 days I lost 2 acan with several heads on them ‍♂️ I’m at such a loss here I dosed this tank everyday with api quick start for the bacteria I even added more established live rock out of a tank that was up and running nothing is helping!! I’m sorry if this is all ran together and don’t make sense
 
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Okay guys and gals I’m so confused here I have done everything I know of to help my issues I’m literally ready to burn this tank to the ground!!! I have done multiple water changes I even did an 80% last Thursday and another 80% wc this past Wednesday I tested last night showing ammonia at 1ppm using api 0 nitrite and 20 nitrate today I test and 1ppm ammonia back to .025 nitrite and almost 50 nitrate!! I have lost 2 acans other corals wasn’t doing well so pulled them and put them in my wife’s 15g cube with a
$40 led blue/white corallife led light and they’re absolutely thriving the very next day!! My Duncan’s in my tank won’t fully open my candy canes won’t get puffy my nems won’t open fully
However my toadstool and devils hands has polypls and my big zoa colony opens up full the small zoa colony won’t open at all my 1 hairy mushroom I kept in my tank is barley open. The only thing I changed through out the past few weeks was I swapped to the deadlights 10hr schedule for my ai prime in 15 days I lost 2 acan with several heads on them ‍♂️ I’m at such a loss here I dosed this tank everyday with api quick start for the bacteria I even added more established live rock out of a tank that was up and running nothing is helping!! I’m sorry if this is all ran together and don’t make sense
For coral, light is likely inadequate and I recommend a @noopsyche light or Ai Hydra 26 (used is also ok)
For ammonia readings, I suspect fase readings. If you can, take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use Api test kits and see what readings they get for Ammonia-nitrate-Ph
Assure also that salinity has not climbed
 
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Chucky

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For coral, light is likely inadequate and I recommend a @noopsyche light or Ai Hydra 26 (used is also ok)
For ammonia readings, I suspect fase readings. If you can, take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use Api test kits and see what readings they get for Ammonia-nitrate-Ph
Assure also that salinity has not climbed
I have Red Sea ammonia test I could try to test ammonia, nitrites and nitrates I have Hannah dkh, ulr phosphorus and calcium test my phosphorus was reading .380 last we tested I have not tested the magnesium or calcium in awhile bc my corals don’t consume much if any at all my ph tested at 8.0 via api
 
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I have Red Sea ammonia test I could try to test ammonia, nitrites and nitrates I have Hannah dkh, ulr phosphorus and calcium test my phosphorus was reading .380 last we tested I have not tested the magnesium or calcium in awhile bc my corals don’t consume much if any at all my ph tested at 8.0 via api
I’ve seen tons of people run the prime on the Biocube 32s with awesome results it’s an lps softie reef only
 
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For coral, light is likely inadequate and I recommend a @noopsyche light or Ai Hydra 26 (used is also ok)
For ammonia readings, I suspect fase readings. If you can, take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use Api test kits and see what readings they get for Ammonia-nitrate-Ph
Assure also that salinity has not climbed
Also the corallife led light on my wife’s 15 gallon is making my coral thrive in her tank which don’t make sense ‍♂️
 
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You tried some activated carbon, just in case the devils hand is committing attempted murder.
You think the devils hand could be an issue? I ask this bc I fragged it other day and made multiple pieces (I’ve never done this before watched YouTube how tos) anyways after doing so my water got super cloudy but cleared up within 12 hours or so! To answer your direct question tho no so I’ve never ran activated carbon
 

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You think the devils hand could be an issue? I ask this bc I fragged it other day and made multiple pieces (I’ve never done this before watched YouTube how tos) anyways after doing so my water got super cloudy but cleared up within 12 hours or so! To answer your direct question tho no so I’ve never ran activated carbon
I think it could be, yes. Who knows what they give off? I think maybe these exudates could possibly also effect the bacteria that process ammonia, but no evidence of that. Just another mystery of reefing, lol.
 
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I think it could be, yes. Who knows what they give off? I think maybe these exudates could possibly also effect the bacteria that process ammonia, but no evidence of that. Just another mystery of reefing, lol.
I have purigen and chemi pure blue but no carbon
 
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