Another attempt at fixing Apex EB832

OP
OP
_AV

_AV

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
677
Reaction score
694
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Nice Work! thanks for the shoutout! I am all confused now because I believe I replaced the PSU with 12v and Im getting worried because I have shipped a few of the 12v supplies. My eb832s have been happy enough with the 12v, so do you mind confirming the output voltage? @_AV I guess it doesn't really matter in this context, as you are just replacing the caps, but I want to make sure I don't cause anyone to fry every IC on their bar
@MadeForThat This should make you feel better:
IMG_0507.JPG

The markings on the back of the PSU are wrong.
 

AcanthurusRex

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Messages
548
Reaction score
394
Location
Dallas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
WOW. I always see the argument in GHL vs Apex that GHL is a lot better built. I think to myself how much better can it be? Now that I see how weak the weak link in Apex is, yeah there is a lot of room to be better than that lol.
You hear that but have you actually opened a GHL unit up and looked? I would be amazed if they are CM'd out of you know where. Quality could be excellent or complete crap. If GHL is designed in Germany it probably is built to a higher standard.
This high side regulator failed on my EB832 shortly after a power event. I did not try to fix the PS, there is no physical indication on the failure mode. I shotgunned it with another $3 PS.
When the PS failed on the COR20 I replaced it with a unit purchased from Digikey. I did find the original on alibaba but I passed.
 

ReefBeta

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
1,318
Reaction score
1,427
Location
Seattle, US
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
You hear that but have you actually opened a GHL unit up and looked? I would be amazed if they are CM'd out of you know where. Quality could be excellent or complete crap. If GHL is designed in Germany it probably is built to a higher standard.
This high side regulator failed on my EB832 shortly after a power event. I did not try to fix the PS, there is no physical indication on the failure mode. I shotgunned it with another $3 PS.
When the PS failed on the COR20 I replaced it with a unit purchased from Digikey. I did find the original on alibaba but I passed.

That's fair. I didn't look detail into a GHL unit. But given my non-existing knowledge on electronics, I don't think I can tell anything different anyway. The only time I saw into one is in a video about adding module to the controller, which involves opening the unit up and adding a module card. It would be more helpful if OP can review one for us.
 

Mark

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
262
Reaction score
582
Location
Alpharetta, GA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
My EB832 died a couple of weeks ago, after an electrician switched off/on the breaker to do some work for me. I switched back to the EB8's I still had laying around. I ordered some caps, and will try to fix the EB832 by following the instructions posted here. But not sure I'll put it back in service for critical things.

I would love to try GHL, but waiting for them to be more Mac friendly. I know they now support full setup via their app now, which is cool. But I heard certain things still require the windows client(firmware updates, doser calibration). That may be dated information. I do really like the Apex Fusion web based app, and their coding logic.

I don't know much about electronics, but this video from GHL impressed me:
 

MadeForThat

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 21, 2020
Messages
257
Reaction score
365
Location
Madison
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Just fix your equipment when it breaks. It solves the immediate issue and will help solve the long term issue of Neptune quality, by pressuring Neptune to release a more acceptable replacement. If Neptune came out with an eb832 mk2 that boasted redundancy, I think a lot of people would appreciate/purchase it.
 

BZOFIQ

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
4,661
Reaction score
3,956
Location
NYC
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
It's threads like this that make me stay with EB8s regardless of the benefit individual current monitoring provides. When the EB832 came out it was superugly and the toyish design factor was offputting for me. Now I think of it as ugly AND unreliable. Some of the EB8s I have are 10+ Y.O. no issues and I even have the heaters on triac outlets going on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off you get the point - all day long with nothin' to wear.

Long ago I bought the new APEX with EB832, never implemented it into the system. I have it at the office acting as an expensive power strip while I debate what to do on the new build. There is only one thing I'm certain of - it wont be all controlled by a single controller. At least 2 with multiple redundancies.



GHL however solidly build has not been 100% reliable on my testbench either. There you have it I said it.
 

Mark

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
262
Reaction score
582
Location
Alpharetta, GA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Just fix your equipment when it breaks. It solves the immediate issue and will help solve the long term issue of Neptune quality, by pressuring Neptune to release a more acceptable replacement. If Neptune came out with an eb832 mk2 that boasted redundancy, I think a lot of people would appreciate/purchase it.

That's the plan. I've been working on my soldering kit and skills. I'd like to be a little less part of the disposable culture. It'd be cool if this weakness in the build was acknowledged and fixed for just shipping cost, similar to Apple extending the warranty on the faulty keyboard macbooks. Unfortunately, the quote I got for repair out of warranty was more expensive than just buying another reliable EB8. I use a COR 15 which uses the 1link port on the EB832, so I just spent the money on a 1link module instead since I already had 2 EB8's on hand.
 

2mk

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
68
Reaction score
23
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Some of my previous repairs:

First off, let me give a lot of credit to @MadeForThat for bringing this issue up in his excellent post earlier:
I think that a lot of people can benefit from this type of information.

I've also been wanting to write about this for sometime. Was just looking for a good opportunity. Alas, I didn't have to wait too long: I received a broken EB832 from a fellow reefer for repair and before opening the unit, I already new exactly what the problem is going to be.
But just knowing is not going to do this poor EB832 any good, we need to get it working again. So let's open it up. Notice that this particular EB832 is very very clean. There is no salt, oxidation or anything inside or outside that would suggest that the failure is due to negligence. So what is wrong then?
IMG_0406.JPG


Oh, look! There it is, like that shy girl at a prom dance, sitting in the corner, wondering if anyone will notice her:

IMG_0407.JPG


Yes, this is our little 5V AC to DC power supply. model YS-5V1ASZD. Its only purpose in life is to provide power to a couple of controllers so that the EB832 can communicate with Apex head unit over aquabus. Well, that and also so that it can switch outlets on and off. Both tasks are kind of critical to the proper operation of the entire unit.

Like oxygen to a brain.

So just like that shy prom girl, our little PSU has a big heart filled with the motivation to do the best it can to make this humongous unit a better place, by providing power to critical components. But it doesn't know yet that it really can't do that. Or it really shouldn't be forced into this situation. Why? Let's take a closer look at the PSU:
IMG_0409.JPG IMG_0410.JPG

From the markings, we can tell that it's a 5V, 1A unit. Should be plenty big to empower those ICs. The design is very common, I believe this particular one is open sourced and widely available. On the board we see all kinds of prefilters, coils, capacitors. So why can't it do what it was designed for? Let's take a slightly different angle:

IMG_0411.JPG

First, can you see a somewhat bulged capacitor on the left? This is where it all starts. @MadeForThat saw that too I'm sure, but he didn't want to rant in his post. So you get to read my rant:

<RANT>
Capacitors fail often. They are both very critical and yet represent the most common failure in power supplies. But not all capacitors are the same. Every device with electronics needs a PSU, yet not every device fails due to a PSU in the first 2 years of operation. This suggests that some that don't fail as often use capacitors that are somehow different, I would event go on a limb and say that they might be, oh, I don't know, of a higher quality. That way they last longer and work better. Let's take a look at what Neptune chose for their EB832:
IMG_0464.JPG


Zhuohao capacitors? Zhuohao are not just low quality, they are the bottom of the bottom of the barrel capacitors. You can pretty much only source them directly from China. No reputable electronics supplier in the US carries them. Just google them to get some juicy details from the electronics community.
As it was previously mentioned, this entire PSU assembly, including capacitors and whatnot, can be purchased retail at ~$3-4. Shipped.
These particular PSU are really hobby grade items. If you are into Arduino tinkering, then it's a good option to prototype a toy project.

Neptune didn't even implement this module, they bought a truck load of them on alibaba. Because they are probably $1 or less each wholesale.
1613584831548.png

<END OF RANT>

Enough ranting. This poor EB832 is still hurting and needs to be fixed.
Of course, there is always an option to just replace the failed PSU with a working one. But the problem is that we would be replacing one subpar component with another component which is equally subpar. What if we fixed the component by replacing very low quality parts with something that is going to actually last past Neptune's meager 1 year warranty?
After all, the design of the PSU is very common and actually good enough for what it must do. It's the choice of parts to implement it that is questionable.

To verify the theory that this PSU is our problem, we will perform a quick diagnostic. The PSU is rated up to 1A current. It also has a red LED on the DC side to indicate that it's working properly. Just because this LED is on, doesn't mean that the unit is working to the specs. We'll apply a reasonable load, a small computer fan with 0.25A draw to the DC side to see if the PSU can power it up. In my experiment, the fan didn't spin and the red LED immediately turned off under the load. Capacitors are bad.


To fix this, we will remove all capacitors on board, regardless of their condition. We don't want that junk, as we can never be sure how much longer they will last. All caps removed and the area is clean and ready for the good stuff:
IMG_0467.JPG


IMG_0470.JPG


And speaking of the good stuff. For the fix, we have a healthy mix of brand new Panasonic, Rubycon and Nichicon capacitors. All top brands with longest life available:
IMG_0462.JPG

These capacitors together probably cost more than the entire PSU unit they are going into.

They fit nice and clean into the original spots on the board:
IMG_0472.JPG

Let's clip excess leads and the module is all back together and ready to go:
IMG_0475.JPG

I tested it with the same 0.25A fan and now the fan spins and the red LED stays on. The PSU is now fixed.

Once it's back inside the EB832, the red LED stays on and the EB832 is happy again.
IMG_0476.JPG
Where can I purchase the capacitors needed for this repair? If you wouldn't mind sharing the links for it. I just repaired my EB832 by replacing it with a new power supply that has the same inferior capacitors. Besides, I now have a crapped power supply that can be repaired to a better state for backup purposes. I am sure it will happen again to one of my 2 EB832's.
 
OP
OP
_AV

_AV

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
677
Reaction score
694
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Any reputable electronics supplier will have them. Digikey, mouser, newark, etc.
 

JeffB418

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
480
Reaction score
468
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So when was your unit made? I just opened mine that was made 09/2018 and I have a completely different 12V supply. (Note: mine still works, I was just curious to see it for my self so I cracked it open, plus it’s way out of warranty so meh)
889D0DF3-9A19-4734-8510-954CDFA3B444.jpeg

1649D69B-EEDC-4496-9D78-4E1E0BC170F9.jpeg

I actually have a meanwell supply in mine, which are actually pretty good from what I’ve heard. So it would be interesting to know if they switched from the meanwell to the cheap one or vise versa at some point. Here is the rev of my PBC as well:

F0B8A633-E0AC-4513-A8EA-0360DE217617.jpeg
 

BZOFIQ

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
4,661
Reaction score
3,956
Location
NYC
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
So when was your unit made? I just opened mine that was made 09/2018 and I have a completely different 12V supply. (Note: mine still works, I was just curious to see it for my self so I cracked it open, plus it’s way out of warranty so meh)
889D0DF3-9A19-4734-8510-954CDFA3B444.jpeg

1649D69B-EEDC-4496-9D78-4E1E0BC170F9.jpeg

I actually have a meanwell supply in mine, which are actually pretty good from what I’ve heard. So it would be interesting to know if they switched from the meanwell to the cheap one or vise versa at some point. Here is the rev of my PBC as well:

F0B8A633-E0AC-4513-A8EA-0360DE217617.jpeg

Interesting.
 
OP
OP
_AV

_AV

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
677
Reaction score
694
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Not sure how to tell when the unit was manufactured. But the board revision for the EB832 featured in this thread is v1.3. Judging by the revision difference, it is feasible that they knew about the problem and upgraded the PSU at some point to mitigate.
 

JeffB418

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
480
Reaction score
468
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Not sure how to tell when the unit was manufactured. But the board revision for the EB832 featured in this thread is v1.3. Judging by the revision difference, it is feasible that they knew about the problem and upgraded the PSU at some point to mitigate.
Yeah Terrence actually commented in another post saying the meanwell is the updated design.
 
OP
OP
_AV

_AV

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
677
Reaction score
694
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Yeah Terrence actually commented in another post saying the meanwell is the updated design.
I'm not sure he was this specific in his response. But this seems like a reasonable version of the interpretation.
 

2mk

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
68
Reaction score
23
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'm not sure he was this specific in his response. But this seems like a reasonable version of the interpretation.
So does it mean we are better off buying the updated psu for replacement from now on?
 
OP
OP
_AV

_AV

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
677
Reaction score
694
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The new PSU and the old board are not necessarily compatible.
Buying a new EB832 is likely what Neptune is implying here.
 

A worm with high fashion and practical utility: Have you ever kept feather dusters in your reef aquarium?

  • I currently have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 68 37.8%
  • Not currently, but I have had feather dusters in my tank in the past.

    Votes: 59 32.8%
  • I have not had feather dusters, but I hope to in the future.

    Votes: 25 13.9%
  • I have no plans to have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 28 15.6%
  • Other.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
Back
Top