Another Flood

bdesign · Jul 5, 2020

Help

I can’t seem to figure out what is causing the Water Mixing Station to flood/overflow.

It’s a very simple setup.

With all four valves fully open, the pump pulls from the bottom of both containers and then returns back into them both.

I have a timer set up for twice-a-day mixing/circulation and it’s worked flawlessly for a long time.

And then it didn’t.

I have been surprised with 30 gallons of water on the floor more than once.

I fiddled with closing down the valve returning into the right container and found a level of closure that seems to work and hasn’t been allowing it to overflow.

Until today.... I’ve come to the office, once again, to find gallons of water flooding onto the floor due to the right container overfilling - even with the return into that container partially closed.

I’ve removed all four Ball Valves and checked their operation as well as checked the pipes for an obstruction.

The valves look to be working properly and all pipes are clear.

Any ideas from sharper than mine?

fcmatt · Jul 5, 2020

I assume the water is overflowing from the top of just one barrel?

Oof. I reread your post. Yes. Right barrel overflowing.

Thinking...

fcmatt · Jul 5, 2020

Why does it seem like in that setup you cannot guarantee equal flow to both barrels. You need a way to equalize them. Thus a pipe connecting each barrel directly to cause them to always be level even if one barrel gets more flow.

A direct pipe between each barrel high enough up should fix it.

Lowell Lemon · Jul 5, 2020

Where does the top of the T run to? Does it run to the tank or sump at a higher level than the mix tanks? Is a back siphon possible?

GabeM · Jul 5, 2020

fcmatt said:
Why does it seem like in that setup you cannot guarantee equal flow to both barrels. You need a way to equalize them. Thus a pipe connecting each barrel directly to cause them to always be level even if one barrel gets more flow.

A direct pipe between each barrel high enough up should fix it.

I tried doing this with a hydroponocs setup and thia is really the problem, one barrell is receiving more water than the other - a small amount over time adds up

fcmatt · Jul 5, 2020

GabeM said:
I tried doing this with a hydroponocs setup and thia is really the problem, one barrell is receiving more water than the other - a small amount over time adds up

Remember he has 1 direct connect already. The flood must be happening while the pump is on. Otherwise over time it would equalize when the pump goes off.

I don't know the pump well enough to know of that also acts like a second direct connect and water can flow through it when off.. but same issue as above. When pump is on.. nothing acts as a fail safe.

Biglew11 · Jul 5, 2020

fcmatt said:
Why does it seem like in that setup you cannot guarantee equal flow to both barrels. You need a way to equalize them. Thus a pipe connecting each barrel directly to cause them to always be level even if one barrel gets more flow.

A direct pipe between each barrel high enough up should fix it.

+1
also you can really guarantee equal flow on the intake side eather. A larger diameter pipe near the top connecting the 2 cans should cure this, if one can gets high enough it should just flow to the other can, instead of on the floor.

bdesign · Jul 5, 2020

Lowell Lemon said:
Where does the top of the T run to? Does it run to the tank or sump at a higher level than the mix tanks? Is a back siphon possible?

The top of the run goes to:

- Valve for local supply of mixed SW

- A run, up through the ceiling and over to the DT, for SW replenishment water change

Lowell Lemon · Jul 5, 2020

If you create a pressure ring by joining the pressure lines at the top you will balance flow to both barrels without the need of ball valves to regulate flow to each barrel. This is how we design multiple aquariums being fed from one central pump. Think of it as a loop the pressure side feeds with the outlets coming off the loop.

homer1475 · Jul 5, 2020

I would think, just a much larger diameter pipe connecting the two barrels at the top would compensate. Maybe even lower then they are currently, so you have a little wiggle room.

What size piping are you using?

bdesign · Jul 5, 2020

fcmatt said:
Why does it seem like in that setup you cannot guarantee equal flow to both barrels. You need a way to equalize them. Thus a pipe connecting each barrel directly to cause them to always be level even if one barrel gets more flow.

A direct pipe between each barrel high enough up should fix it.

I see your point and gave that a little thought at first.

It’s apparent that, somehow, the right container is suddenly getting less flow into it, but I’m just baffled as to how it’s worked perfectly for so long.

As with everything thing in life, I guess it works until it doesn’t. Haha

homer1475 · Jul 5, 2020

Now that I look at it better.....

Why not just feed one barrel from the pump, and use the front piping as just a pass through?

fcmatt · Jul 5, 2020

water is a strange beast. Who knows what is going on inside that pipe to cause several more gallons per time period to flow one direction..

I would just add a bigger pipe between the barrels and call it a day. That way they stay level. Just big enough to be able to handle a lot of water going one direction.

bdesign · Jul 5, 2020

homer1475 said:
I would think, just a much larger diameter pipe connecting the two barrels at the top would compensate. Maybe even lower then they are currently, so you have a little wiggle room.

What size piping are you using?

1 1/2”

homer1475 · Jul 5, 2020

1 1/2" should be plenty.

if it were me, I would cut another hole in the side, install uniseal, and only feed one barrel from the pump, leave the front plumbing, remove the T, and it will just act as a pass through when the first barrel gets fuller.