Automatic Water changes. It doesnt get any better then this.
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Chris155hp
Well-Known Member
Same here as I got a new dos. It's the stenner 170 dual head Gpd model. Pm me for more info
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I just got the DOS and I plan on using it for something like this as well. 
Who Dah?
Exoticfrags.us
I'm using a Genesis Renew on one tank, and through a home made John Guest Manifold, a single (two-head) Stenner on 3 other tanks.
Genesis Renew: man, that took a lot of plumbing. And in my setup, I had to order extra extension cables too. One has 2 metering bins/buckets and need to run 3 lines, plus pumps, plus electrical cords to the control unit. Being that my control unit is 3' from one bucket and 15' from another bucket which is 10' further away from the tank, this was no 'easy' plumbing task. But once done, the thing rocks. I don't trust any Auto Water Change (AWC) system without my presence (it's not the pumps, it's me), so I walk up to the unit, turn it on, it remembers my last setting of '6' gallons, hit the orange button, it is done in ~27 minutes or so. Pretty quiet, you do hear your bucket filling pumps kick on (I've got an Eheim in one, Mag in another, so just the noise of those turning on/off). A little bit of flushing noises as the water drains, and small clicks as the actuators turn on/off.
Stenner: I've got the 170 Gallon Per Day (GPD) fixed pump (that is a single motor, dual head, with each head doing 85GPD). MUCH easier plumbing. 1 "John Guest" 1/4" line going from new saltwater bin to Stenner, 1 from Stenner to drain, 2 from Stenner to the tank. Done. No electrical cables, no communication cables. No vinyl barb fittings. Done. It is definitely noticeable noise wise. I adjust my John Guest Manifold to do whichever of the three bodies of water I want to change at that moment, then flip on the pump. But - in real life, the thing is 1) noisy 2) slow 3) not near as accurate. It does about a gallon every 12 minutes or so. Grind grind grind... 12 minutes... Grind grind grind - 1 Gallon. The Genesis would have done just shy of 3G in that time. Also, no matter how I arrange the pumps, tubes, heads, and lines, 1 head pulls more than the other. I've read I can pinch the inside line. I pretty much let it do it's thing in the mode of 'pump more water in than it takes out' and then drain a gallon 'by hand' with a jug. I might toy w/ the 'pinching the intake line' to see if I can get it more balanced. I guess I'd recommend the next reefer to spend the extra $$ and get the adjustable model based on my experience.
Which do I prefer more? Welp, those setups are both doing my office tanks. I need to setup one for home too. I'll be going Genesis at home.
To be fair, it is in a fish room with a sink, and I won't need to worry about hiding plumbing. If that was a concern, the peristaltic pump plumbing is much less conspicuous.
But - if one is trusting the auto water changing system more than I do (again, I like to be near the tanks when the system is doing its thing), either would be fine IMHO. The Genesis, although more work to get setup, is just so much quicker (and accurate) compared to my Stenner.
Another factor: I plan on plumbing my Stenner at work to a remote tank. The line will go vertically 15', then a 100' horizontal run, then vertically 15' again. This should be no problem for the Stenner.
Pro tip 1: using a peristaltic pump for water changes? When you are acclimating new sea creatures, use the output of your system as an acclimation drip line!
Pro tip 2: using a Genesis and need to acclimate new sea creatures? Probably don't do Pro tip 1.
Experimental Idea 1: I'm emailing Genesis and hoping to come up with some sort of way to use a single Genesis on 4 bodies of water without mixing the bodies of water. (Especially since 2 of those bodies are QT bodies of water!) My idea would involve a 6P4T electrical switch to choose the correct aquarium metering bin, some ball valves to direct replacement water, and a 'DJ electrical switch' for the aquarium metering bin fill-up pumps. It'd have one replacement water reservoir, 1 replacement water metering bin, 4 aquariums, and 4 aquarium metering bins. I'd have to select the tank on the 6P4T switch, adjust 2 ball valves on the output line, enable the appropriate tank pump on the DJ switch, and it should work. The advantages: 1) less plumbing - they can share the new water plumbing and drain plumbing (but not the overflow plumbing) 2) maybe some cost savings, maybe not... but I think so. 3) way less replacement water reservoirs. The disadvantages: 1) a step away from full automation in the sense that I'll have to switch that 6P4T switch, the DJ switch for power to the appropriate pump, and the ball valve for the output water 2) room for error in step 1.
Thoughts?
Now that I've read this thread, and posted my own review, it is question time! Has anyone come across a high-speed, or high-flow peristaltic pump solution that is reasonably priced? I've seen some that are like 100 G per HOUR (not per day, but per hour), but bring a $2k+ price tag...
Genesis Renew: man, that took a lot of plumbing. And in my setup, I had to order extra extension cables too. One has 2 metering bins/buckets and need to run 3 lines, plus pumps, plus electrical cords to the control unit. Being that my control unit is 3' from one bucket and 15' from another bucket which is 10' further away from the tank, this was no 'easy' plumbing task. But once done, the thing rocks. I don't trust any Auto Water Change (AWC) system without my presence (it's not the pumps, it's me), so I walk up to the unit, turn it on, it remembers my last setting of '6' gallons, hit the orange button, it is done in ~27 minutes or so. Pretty quiet, you do hear your bucket filling pumps kick on (I've got an Eheim in one, Mag in another, so just the noise of those turning on/off). A little bit of flushing noises as the water drains, and small clicks as the actuators turn on/off.
Stenner: I've got the 170 Gallon Per Day (GPD) fixed pump (that is a single motor, dual head, with each head doing 85GPD). MUCH easier plumbing. 1 "John Guest" 1/4" line going from new saltwater bin to Stenner, 1 from Stenner to drain, 2 from Stenner to the tank. Done. No electrical cables, no communication cables. No vinyl barb fittings. Done. It is definitely noticeable noise wise. I adjust my John Guest Manifold to do whichever of the three bodies of water I want to change at that moment, then flip on the pump. But - in real life, the thing is 1) noisy 2) slow 3) not near as accurate. It does about a gallon every 12 minutes or so. Grind grind grind... 12 minutes... Grind grind grind - 1 Gallon. The Genesis would have done just shy of 3G in that time. Also, no matter how I arrange the pumps, tubes, heads, and lines, 1 head pulls more than the other. I've read I can pinch the inside line. I pretty much let it do it's thing in the mode of 'pump more water in than it takes out' and then drain a gallon 'by hand' with a jug. I might toy w/ the 'pinching the intake line' to see if I can get it more balanced. I guess I'd recommend the next reefer to spend the extra $$ and get the adjustable model based on my experience.
Which do I prefer more? Welp, those setups are both doing my office tanks. I need to setup one for home too. I'll be going Genesis at home.
To be fair, it is in a fish room with a sink, and I won't need to worry about hiding plumbing. If that was a concern, the peristaltic pump plumbing is much less conspicuous.
But - if one is trusting the auto water changing system more than I do (again, I like to be near the tanks when the system is doing its thing), either would be fine IMHO. The Genesis, although more work to get setup, is just so much quicker (and accurate) compared to my Stenner.
Another factor: I plan on plumbing my Stenner at work to a remote tank. The line will go vertically 15', then a 100' horizontal run, then vertically 15' again. This should be no problem for the Stenner.
Pro tip 1: using a peristaltic pump for water changes? When you are acclimating new sea creatures, use the output of your system as an acclimation drip line!
Pro tip 2: using a Genesis and need to acclimate new sea creatures? Probably don't do Pro tip 1.
Experimental Idea 1: I'm emailing Genesis and hoping to come up with some sort of way to use a single Genesis on 4 bodies of water without mixing the bodies of water. (Especially since 2 of those bodies are QT bodies of water!) My idea would involve a 6P4T electrical switch to choose the correct aquarium metering bin, some ball valves to direct replacement water, and a 'DJ electrical switch' for the aquarium metering bin fill-up pumps. It'd have one replacement water reservoir, 1 replacement water metering bin, 4 aquariums, and 4 aquarium metering bins. I'd have to select the tank on the 6P4T switch, adjust 2 ball valves on the output line, enable the appropriate tank pump on the DJ switch, and it should work. The advantages: 1) less plumbing - they can share the new water plumbing and drain plumbing (but not the overflow plumbing) 2) maybe some cost savings, maybe not... but I think so. 3) way less replacement water reservoirs. The disadvantages: 1) a step away from full automation in the sense that I'll have to switch that 6P4T switch, the DJ switch for power to the appropriate pump, and the ball valve for the output water 2) room for error in step 1.
Thoughts?
Now that I've read this thread, and posted my own review, it is question time! Has anyone come across a high-speed, or high-flow peristaltic pump solution that is reasonably priced? I've seen some that are like 100 G per HOUR (not per day, but per hour), but bring a $2k+ price tag...
ThePriceSeliger
Active Member
I used the Stenner for a while with zero issues, but the Apex Dos will do this, and you can calibrate it so you know your running correct amounts. Even the Apex Gold system and a Dos unit is under 1k.
Who Dah?
Exoticfrags.us
Thx ThePriceSeliger. However, and correct me if I'm wrong, the APEX DOS max flow is 250mL/min which is ~4GPH, right? I say that as an APEX fan, I'm running several. But when I mean high-speed or high-flow, I'm talking more like at least 12-15GPH (similar to the non-peristaltic Genesis Renew speed). Indeed, there are some out there that are 100+ GPH, as mentioned in my post above, but bring $2k+ price tags.
Example: 55GPH, a pair of these around $2k. These would be pretty slick for those of us who want to be around when the water change is taking place vs. trusting it AKT (Away From Tank
) This would let one do a 6G water change in ~7 minutes.http://goo.gl/q5bHo4
Or 492GPH, ha! Pushing return pump speeds! But bring $6k... each.. 100G tank, do a 100% water change in 12 minutes?
Mostly joking on this one, but here it is:http://goo.gl/BSUTwB
ThePriceSeliger
Active Member
You're right, I didn't really take into account what "high flow" meant. You could work something out with a series of float switches or optical sensors. I'm pretty unfamiliar with the Genesis and my only experience has been with peristaltic pumps, but my rational is that slow and consistent is more effective than larger less periodic changes.
ThePriceSeliger
Active Member
Example: 55GPH, a pair of these around $2k. These would be pretty slick for those of us who want to be around when the water change is taking place vs. trusting it AKT (Away From Tank
http://goo.gl/q5bHo4
Or 492GPH, ha! Pushing return pump speeds! But bring $6k... each.. 100G tank, do a 100% water change in 12 minutes?
http://goo.gl/BSUTwB
Holy cow, those are awesome!
Nice set ups
Sacohen
Valuable Member
If the old water line and new water line are situated properly then the amount you are mixing is very small.
I'm going to put my old water line in my overflow and the new water line in my sump right next to the return pump.
That way the old water is being taken out just before it goes to the sump for "cleaning" and gets returned to the tank with the clean water that is going back to the tank.
OP
OP
AquamanE
Well-Known Member
Sean- thats not a bad concept. I have my old water being drain right where the overflow dumps into the sump, not sure how big a difference that makes. New water right in fron of return back to tank.
I wish my tank was in a suitable location to be able to do this.
OP
OP
AquamanE
Well-Known Member
@Who Dah? - I hear what you say about the Stenners in "not as accurate". I measured mine when I set it up and there was indeed a difference but when i figured out the difference it was statistically insignificant. Cant remember my numbers but its in the post. Furthermore the big picture is, does this create a creep up/down in salinity. I have not noticed any in two years, and i dont "watch it happen" as you do. Ive resolve the noise issue (you right they are noisy) by doing one change at 6am (sleeping), and one at 6pm (lots of noise in the house). 1.25 gals each time for a total of 1% per day. Also, I do have one fail switch and its a float valve at the new water bin bottom. This allows for the AWC pump to be shut down if i run out of clean water, otherwise it would pump water out, with no new water coming in, causing ATO to make up the difference with fresh water, a no-no.
mattgreene22
Community Member
@Who Dah? - Furthermore the big picture is, does this create a creep up/down in salinity. I have not noticed any in two years, and i dont "watch it happen" as you do.
In two years, what maintenance have you had to do and what other hiccups have you encountered if any? Someone I know is selling a 20gpd Stenner unit, but I'm wondering how I keep debris out of the line pumping out waste water. Have you had any issues? Also, how loud are these Stenner pumps??
ronnie
Acro addict
Mines still running flawlessly. I haven't had to do anything but swap out power supplies - the first one I had only lasted about four months and it stopped being able to turn the pumps. Put a bigger amp PS on it and it's hummed along twice a day for three minutes. Nothing I've seen from any salinity swings either. Skimmer could be playing a part though? Who knows. Mines just a cheap $25 pump from eBay and two heads.
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