Baby Steps into Quarantine

[Bob Wiley]

I'm going to use this thread to lay out how I'm quarantining and to journal this experience as I go through it.

In researching all the stuff involved with this, I would find information more helpful knowing it was recent as opposed to, say, 5 years old. For instance, some of the older posts recommend stopping at therapeutic copper levels of 2.0ppm. But more recently it has been advised to go up to 2.5ppm. There has also been more recent confirmation on being able to use Prime with Copper Power which is good to know if you have an ammonia spike in your QT and a water change isn't possible.

QT1 — Fish-only

Tank Setup

• 10gal (Aqueon from Petco)
• bare bottom
• 3 PVC pipes for hiding
• HOB Seachem Tidal filter (rated for 35gal)
• Marineland Maxi-Jet 600 (for its adaptability), configured as powerhead pointing upwards (also has Venturi hose attached)
• Eheim Jager 50w heater
• Zacro LCD digital thermometer
• Seachem Ammonia Alert badge
• glass lid also bought at Petco
• no light

Inhabitants

• 2x Mocha Clownfish
• 1x Purple Firefish
• 1x Yellow Watchman Goby
• 1x Barnacle Blenny

QT2 — Inverts

Tank Setup

• 5.5gal (Aqueon from Petco)
• some dry rock
• 10lbs of sand
• HOB Seachem Tidal filter (rated for 35gal)
• Eheim Jager 50w heater
• Zacro LCD digital thermometer
• Seachem Ammonia Alert badge
• glass lid also bought at Petco
• no light

Inhabitants

• 10x snails
• 10x blue hermit crabs
• 1x peppermint shrimp (molted after 6 days, so we transferred it to the DT (first inhabitant!))
• 1x tiger pistol shrimp

NOTE
Each tank has its own net, it’s own siphon, it’s own hydrometer and whatever else (baster, etc) is needed to keep cross-contamination from happening. When mixing water, the fish-only tank's allotment will get poured into a separate bucket in which I can pre-dose copper before pouring it into the tank. I never dose copper into my main mixing tub so as not to introduce any trace amounts of it into the invertebrate tank (or the display tank) which could be fatal to the invertebrates. Those are my guys!

Also, both tanks are in high traffic areas of the house where everyone in the fam can observe them throughout the day.

But don't take my word for it!
How to Quarantine
My Current QT Process
Quarantine Setup Made Easy
Coral/Invert Quarantine Time Frames
The Dos and Don'ts of Quarantine
How to Acclimate
Ammonia Control in a Hospital Tank
Ratios for Dosing Copper Power
Medications to Keep on Hand

 

[Bob Wiley]

Acclimation
QT1 — All fish were within .001 SG of the QT, so we floated them for 20-30 mins to acclimate for temperature, double-checked their bag salinity and netted them into the tank. I feel that this was successful as no one was DOA.
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QT2 — LFS water was within .001 SG of this tank. All inhabitants were drip-acclimated for over an hour before being scooped into the tank.


Food
QT1 — Feeding only frozen mysis shrimp since DAY 1. I thaw out a cube or cubes in a sealed container under hot, running water and drain off the excess liquid. By DAY 2 Selcon arrived and I’ve been mixing the food with that since. I will usually prepare enough cubes to last 2-3 days of feeding and store it in the refrigerator.

By DAY 5, with all fish in the tank, we are mixing Metropelx+Focus with the thawed Selcon/Shrimp paste. Feeding schedule is 3x/day (morning/afternoon/night).

At DAY 9, after starting to increase copper levels and the fish seemingly losing appetite, we went out and bought LRS Reef Frenzy Nano, which we also mixed with Metro+Focus and Selcon.
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QT2 — The tank gets fed frozen mysis shrimp every 2-3 days. We feed the pistol shrimp with a turkey baster to make sure it’s getting food down in it’s cave hole.

 

[Bob Wiley]

Medications Used
Copper
DAYS 1–7 have seen the water just under 1.00ppm copper. I have done two water changes because my water is cloudy and the ammonia alert badge is registering one of those colors in-between yellow and light green. I dose the WC water before adding to the tank. Throughout all this, the copper has ranged from 0.94 to 0.93 to 0.95 on a Hanna HR copper checker.

By DAY 7 we’ve finally witnessed all fish eating. They’ve also all been in the tank at least two days each, getting accustomed to it and their new friends. So we feel better about increasing the levels of copper.

DAY 8 saw inconsistent increases with nearly similar doses. The first dose at 0.72ml should have increased levels about 0.125ppm but instead increased them 0.18ppm. I dialed back the second dose just a tad at 0.7ml expecting to hit levels around 1.30ppm. However when the results came in the next morning they were smack dab at 1.25ppm.

DAY 9 started off with hope that I could count on the math to deliver consistent dosing results. Seeing my early test hit 1.25ppm, I dosed again at 0.72ml expecting to increase levels to ~1.38ppm give-or-take. However when I tested the water before dosing in the evening the level was only at 1.28ppm. What gives? It wasn’t like I had dosed into stale water and immediately tested before it got a chance to mix. It had been mixing for 10-12 hours. And I dosed into the tank with the filter and powerhead on.

Metro
On DAY 5 I mixed Seachem Metroplex + Focus with the Selcon into their food (frozen mysis shrimp).

Prazi
Due to the flashing of the firefish on DAY 7, I dosed 2.5ml of Prazi into the water. I realized soon after that I should not have done this with copper already in the water. However with good surface disturbance I figured I’d just let the Prazi run it’s course and not do a second treatment after 5-7 days.

 

[Bob Wiley]

Timeline
QT1
PRE-PRO — Saltwater at between 1.024/5 (LFS said their water was 1.025). Dosed a bottle of Fritz9 live bacteria directly into HOB filter media (Seachem matrix). Ghost fed the tank for a week. Dosed with Copper Power the night before we bought any fish. Measured volume of water in tank at 9.6 gallons, so I treated with 5.65ml of copper which yielded 0.94ppm.

DAY 1 — We bought 2 mocha clowns (captive bred) and a purple firefish. Our QT saltwater SG was within .001 of the LFS so we floated the fish to acclimate for temperature and then released into the QT tank. All three were shy for the first day with the firefish hiding on the bottom between pipes. The clowns were peckish right away, but eating well by that evening. The firefish came around and was eating by DAY 2. Observations of these three warranted no concerns. No spots. No flashing. No stringy poop. No weird swimming.

DAY 4 — The following Tuesday we added a barnacle blenny to the fold. (This thing is tiny! And fast!). Different LFS, but their water was 1.025 as well, so we float-and-released. Since we have no rock, he mostly hides out along the silicone edges/corners of the tank, below the black trim. He must feel safer here than in one of the PVC pipes. We first saw him eat probably two days later (DAY 6). Given the type of fish he is, we’re not concerned that he doesn’t swim around and mostly sits in one spot on the bottom of the tank. His size and locations make it hard to discern if any spots show up on him. So far we haven’t detected any. We have seen him poop once and it seemed normal.

DAY 5 — The day after we got the blenny we added our final fish to the mix — a yellow watchman goby (to pair with a tiger pistol shrimp in QT2). This fish was from the first LFS, so same water SG and same float-and-release approach. I figured it’d chill out on the bottom of the tank, but its been a pretty frantic swimmer. We didn’t witness it eat until two days after getting it (DAY 7) and have not seen any spots on it (outside of it’s normal patterning). Other than the occasional frantic swimming (up, down, up, down, up, down) he hasn’t shown any odd behavior. One note about this fish: it arrived at the LFS the day we got it (we knew it was coming) and was being acclimated there when we bought it. So its initial disposition might be expected to be erratic until it is in the tank long enough to realize it can chill out. Now that we had all of our fish, we started mixing Metroplex+Focus into the food.

DAY 6 — Flashing is noticed by the firefish, although not brought to my attention.

DAY 7 — When feeding in the afternoon I noticed for the first time the firefish flashing in the pipes. Worried that it might be flukes, I dosed the tank with Prazipro at 2.5ml (~half a teaspoon according to the dosing instructions for the size of my tank).

DAY 8 — Increased copper dosage to 1.25ppm. The first dose was 0.72ml. I anticipated it increasing my levels to about 1.07ppm. However when I tested the water hours later before dosing a second time, I got a reading of 1.13ppm. Strange. So I dialed down the second dose to 0.7ml flat (The next morning, in testing before DAY 9’s first dose, my reading was spot-on at 1.25ppm).

Firefish still flashing, but no other fish have followed suit. Noticed one clown twitching during the evening feed. The same clown and the firefish were also seen to have white, stringy poop.

DAY 9 — On the way to increasing copper levels to 1.50ppm, I did a test before my morning dose. It had been mixing around overnight and came out right at 1.25ppm. Ecstatic, I dosed the tank with 0.72ml and moved on. However, at the evening dose’s copper test, the result came back at 1.28ppm! what the heck!? Gonna dose at 0.72ml for the evening and see where we’re at in the morning. If the math is right we should be at 1.41ppm but I’m afraid that something is skewing the levels and it’ll be lower, like in the mid 1.30s...

Bought LRS Reef Frenzy Nano to counter the fish being peckish with the mysis shrimp (probably due to increasing levels of copper in the system). They were all immediately interested, including the blenny and the goby who both grabbed chunks for themselves.

Firefish still flashing.

DAY 10 — Trying to get to 1.75ppm today. Morning test resulted in 1.41ppm! So I’m about .10ppm lower than where I want to be, but exactly where I expected to be given yesterday’s weird morning levels. Going ahead with another dose of 0.72ml and gonna let that mix for 10-12 hours before testing again tonight. Fingers crossed.

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QT2
We plan on letting this run for 11 weeks (or until the shrimps molt). We’re currently two weeks in without any real cause for concern. This QT seems pretty easy — just acclimate and wait.

DAY 6 — The peppermint shrimp molted, so we got him out of there and made him the DT’s first inhabitant.

 

[Bob Wiley]

Concerns
My water has been hazy since setting up the tank. At first I chalked it up to a new tank cycling. Then I chalked it up to not having any carbon or rock/sand in the system. But seeing pics/vids of other people’s QTs I’m left wondering if I’m missing something? (For comparison, my Invertebrate QT cleared up and looks like a normal fish tank. It has no carbon either, but does have sand and dry rock). The HOB water falling into the fish-only QT appears to be providing enough oxygen-exchange and surface disturbance to keep down any bacterial blooms. But just for safe measure I added a power head that both dumps air bubbles into the water and is pointed upwards disturbing even more of the surface. The only thing I am left to ponder is: ammonia. Could that be the reason for the cloudy water? And maybe even the firefish scratching? The Ammonia Alert badge, however has never gotten darker than a light-yellow-green color where it’s hard to discern if we’re really in DEFCON 2 or not. Just to be safe I have done 2 water changes inside of a week (one was 20%; the second was 30%). Neither seems to have alleviated the cloudy water issue in the least.

 

[Bob Wiley]

DAY 10 — Trying to get to 1.75ppm today. Morning test resulted in 1.41ppm! So I’m about .10ppm lower than where I want to be, but exactly where I expected to be given yesterday’s weird morning levels. Going ahead with another dose of 0.72ml and gonna let that mix for 10-12 hours before testing again tonight. Fingers crossed.

Tonight's test yielded more head-scratching results. We came in at 1.65ppm before dosing again. That means my 0.72ml dose from this morning did a lot of heavy lifting and accounted for a 0.24ppm jump? Because of this I knocked this evenings dose down a bit to 0.7ml, but I have no faith that levels will be at 1.75ppm in the morning. I fear they will be way over. I might do a top-off to see if the slight evaporation of water over the past few days could be accounting for a higher dosing than normal from a 0.72ml dose.

In other news, everyone is still eating and getting along. I did not seen the firefish flashing at all today.

 

[Bob Wiley]

DAY 11 — Well, I should be waking up this morning with levels around 1.75ppm. Instead they are at… 1.55ppm? Now, granted, I added about a quarter-gallon of fresh water top-off last night. But I did not expect to go down 10 points from the last reading. Dosed another 0.72ml this morning. I have no idea where my levels are going to be when I check again tonight, but I should have been building towards 2.0ppm today.

The evening’s test came in at 1.68ppm. That is where it should be given the 0.72ml dose I did this morning. So I guess we’ll just view DAY 11 as tho it didn't happen and march on to 2.0ppm tomorrow instead!

I am going to do a ~20% water change. The waste bubbles are starting to float around at the water's surface. Will be sure to match WC water at 1.68ppm copper.

All fish are eating, swimming normally and seem to be relatively calm. Have not see the firefish flashing today.

 

[Bob Wiley]

DAY 12 — Morning test revealed a level of 1.76ppm, which is less than I would have expected, but a totally fine starting point for the day. Dosed about 0.74ml to see if we can be at the 1.88-1.9ppm range this evening.

Tonight’s levels came in at 1.92ppm. That puts me in reach of 2.0ppm for today. Added a 0.72ml dose to the tank. Let’s see if we’re around 2.05ppm in the morning.

All fish seem to be doing well and eating well. It seems like the fish have broken out into groups as to which like which food. The clowns still prefer the frozen mysis shrimp. The yellow watchman goby and barnacle blenny seem to prefer the LRS (Reef Frenzy Nano) and the firefish will eat any and all. I’m finding the LRS harder to feed tho because it’s so chunky. It’s hard for them to get a bite so they will leave it alone. Plus it sinks faster. It’s like a big snot ball in there. And once food hits the bottom it’s off limits. Like, “Oh no! It touched the bottom! Can’t eat that now!” The mysis shrimp at least floats a little longer. The problem with it is that the clowns will only eat the eyeballs and leave the rest of the shrimp parts to float around and clog my powerhead and filters.

No one has seen the firefish flashing today.

 

[Bob Wiley]

DAY 13 — Morning test was at 2.01ppm. Whatever. At least I’m at 2ppm now. What worries me is once I get to 2.5ppm if that level will maintain itself. If not, why? I can’t think of anything in the tank that could be absorbing copper. All that is in the filter is Seachem Matrix and the blue nylon pad thing at the bottom.

The evening level was 2.19ppm. Dosed 0.72ml tonight so tomorrow morning’s test should be over 2.25ppm. That should put me on a path to reach 2.5ppm over tomorrow’s two dosings.

 

[F i s h y]

Great journal of progress. Keep up the posts

 

[Bob Wiley]

Thanks!
I appreciate it

 

[Hugh Mann]

I missed what test kit you are using for copper.

If it's the Hanna, it has a +/- 0.04ppm margin of error according to the instructions. Make sure you are getting every last bit of reagent into the vial.

I have heard tales of other copper tests being notoriously unreliable. The silicone in the tank I have heard can absorb some copper. Filter media may take up some too?

 

[Bob Wiley]

Yes, it is the Hanna HR.
And yes I am OCD with trying to get all that powder out of that little pouch, lol!

The only filter media I have is what came in the box (Seachem Tidal 35) — Seachem Matrix and some blue pad that sits underneath it. I thought it was just a plastic-y mechanical filtration thing, but looking at Seachem's website now, they do describe it as a foam filter. It's possible that might be the culprit.

I have some scheduled filter maintenance coming up tomorrow for both QTs, so I might remove that from the fish-only tank and see if my copper levels stabilize.

 

[Bob Wiley]

DAY 14 — Morning test was at 2.26ppm (hey it’s over 2.25ppm so I’ll take it). Dosed another 0.72ml right after, so our numbers this evening should be around 2.38ppm. However I topped off the tank with about 1/8 gallon of fresh water this afternoon as well, so I expect the number to come in lower than that. Hopefully not below 2.26ppm, lol!

The evening test showed levels at 2.31ppm. Lower than I would like, but expected due to the top-off from earlier today. Tonight’s dose should be the last I’ll need to do (besides water changes) and get us within striking distance of 2.5ppm. Dosed ~0.74ml tonight to make up for the difference. Interested to see where we’re at in the morning. I plan on testing 3-4 times over the day tomorrow to see if the levels remain ~2.5ppm. If they steadily go down over the course of the day then I’ll know I have something in the tank absorbing the copper.

In other news, I saw both the firefish and one of the clowns with white, stringy poop this afternoon. It’s been a few days since I’ve caught any of them going #2, so it could be that this is not a new/resurfacing development and has just been going on. Today is the absolute last day that any of my Prazipro mistake from 7 days ago is lingering in the tank. I plan to do a tank-dose of Metroplex tomorrow or the next day. I’m hoping that will help alleviate the WSP as I have already been mixing metro into their food for over a week.

 

[Bob Wiley]

Oh, forgot to mention yesterday that I received 10ml syringes in the mail. I immediately started using them to measure my test water. This is much better, faster and more accurate than trying to dip and pray with those little vials while hovering over an open tank.

If anyone is having trouble about how to know if your water is at the 10ml line or not, this helped explain to me what to look for—

No need to use a syringe. Surface tension will lift the level around the edges, so ignore this level... You measure from the bottom of the meniscus.

Basically, the surface of the water dips downward in the vial. You want the bottom of that curve (the meniscus) to sit right on the 10ml line.

And yes, using a syringe helps get you right there every time. It is also easier to add a drop or two if need be. Plus you don't have to get your hands wet—




And then I don’t think I linked to this earlier, but this video was informative on the whole Hanna Checker process—




Now, I really flick my reagent packets because the powder seems to always sit in the corners along the line where you need to cut. So be sure to feel along that line because you don’t want to be cutting it open and having powder falling out. Once you get it open you squeeze the sides of the packet inward so that the curved end of the cut you made creases inward and forms an open mouth. Just make one of those creases a narrow funnel and line it up with your vial and dump it in. Be sure to tap the packet to get as much reagent as possible into the water. NOTE — there will always be fine powder particles statically stuck to the walls of the packet. Noting you can do about that.

 

[Bob Wiley]

DAY 15 — This morning’s test showed levels of 2.46ppm. Perfect. Now if memory serves, I should not have to dose the tank anymore. As long as there is no absorption media I’ll only need to dose my WC water to reflect tank ppm levels.

I will do a few more tests throughout the day today and see if that level drops.

In doing some more research through @Humblefish 's monster quarantine tome, I'm seeing that the absorption culprit might in fact be the Matrix media and not the foam insert.

I recommend leaving out the bio media. Its too hard to clean and dry. The foam filters will hold more than enough bacteria to process ammonia if set up correctly. Once you are done treating, you can pull the foam and throw it away.
Nothing wrong with trying to use the bio media as long as you are very careful. For me, it offers too high of a risk of cross contamination or improper decontamination.

While I have a brand new bottle of Bio-Spira to re-populate any lost bacteria, I'm concerned about removing the Matrix media because I do not have more sponges to make up for the loss. So I'd just be rolling with the stock sponge that came in the box. Will that be enough???

 

[Bob Wiley]

Did a water change earlier today while cleaning out the filter. Ended up being about 1.5 gallons worth of water. I prepared 2 gallons and dosed it with 3ml of copper (.59ml/gal * 2.5ppm). Yes, technically it should have been 2.95ml, but I upped it to 3 to account for the fluctuating water volumes. I stirred the copper in with a net and then let the bucket sit for a few minutes while we siphoned the tank. When we were ready to pour it in the tank, I tested it and got a level of… 1.59ppm? Alright, whatever. Not the first time I’ve had a bunk test in the WC bucket. Went ahead and dumped it in the tank figuring it would pull down my 2.46ppm number from earlier and then I’d make adjustments later tonight after doing a couple more tests today.

After dinner, I did a test on the tank and get a reading of 2.34ppm. So hopefully that drop is all from the WC and not from any sort of absorption. Will do another test later tonight before bed and see.

 

[Bob Wiley]

Just did another test which came in at 2.31ppm. Definitely within the margin of error for the Hanna tester, but not reassuring either. I don’t want to wake up tomorrow in the low 2.20s so I dosed about 0.75ml hoping to push us back up into the mid 2.40s. Tomorrow I will do another range of tests throughout the day to truly see if something is absorbing the copper or not. My bet is yes and I’ll have to pull the Matrix.

 

[Bob Wiley]

DAY 16 — Tested the levels this morning and they were at 2.57ppm. So there’s our baseline. I’ll do a few more tests through the day and see if that number comes down. I hope being slightly over 2.5ppm is not harmful to the fish, but we just fed them and verified they all ate.

 

[Bob Wiley]

Today’s running tests, no copper added.
9:15am — 2.57ppm
2:20pm — 2.55ppm
6:20pm — 2.51ppm
10:30pm — 2.49ppm

I'm sorry, but this is not a "margin of error" issue. If that were the case we should expect results below AND above our target at random. Instead, I am seeing a steady decline at a constant rate. REALLY perplexed as to what could be causing my copper loss. I do not want to be testing/dosing every single day to stay around 2.5ppm. I've already had to buy another 25-ct box of reagent because of the fluctuating levels.

All that I have in this tank is the stock media that comes with the filter (Seachem matrix and a blue sponge) and 3 PVC pipes. There is no rock; no sand; no charcoal.

Equipment-wise, we have a heater, powerhead, Seachem Ammonia Alert badge and temperature gauge.

I really want the Seachem Matrix ceramic media to be the culprit, but it sounds like others have already had the same question and determined it not to be—

Humblefish and I both tested ceramic media for copper absorption and found with both Seachem Matrix and Fluval BioMax there was zero copper absorbed by the media.

The Hanna has an accuracy margin of +- 0.05

I'm using Seachem matrix. doesn't absorb copper so far as I've measured for the last three weeks in my new QT. Matrix helped me start my QT since I didn't have a filter pad culturing in an established tank being that I am new to reefing.

So what else? The silicone? Mehhhhhhhhhh—

...silicone does not absorb copper or any other medications. The only thing is a dyed medication (e.g. methylene blue, acriflavine) may stain it.

Is there a different type of PVC that absorbs copper???
Otherwise... I'm at the point where, in order to find the culprit, I'm just going to have to remove things one-by-one and see when copper levels stabilize.

First up tomorrow will be the Seachem matrix.