Bangaii Cardinal odd behavior- Problem??

[Emvy]

To prefix, I know how many threads there are about these cardinals not eating/ being picky. This is that to an extent.

The cardinal currently housed with two ocellaris clowns and a blenny.

They went through 30 days of copper power quarantine and were moved to another quarantine tank for observation/ Prazi treatment.

They’ve been in the Prazi for just under two weeks (almost ready for display tank).

The Cardinal took some time to warm up to eating the first week after purchase, but he was doing great eating freeze dried mysis every day while in the copper treatment. Pretty much since I’ve moved him to the next tank, we haven’t observed him eating anything at all, including the freeze dried mysis he was privy to before. Won’t eat pellets, freeze dried mysis, frozen mysis or frozen brine, among another things short of live brine shrimp. He’s also staying in one place in the tank for long periods of time, trying to keep himself still, and doing strange things with his mouth sometimes (shown on video). He reacts to food and comes to it like he wants to eat but then either ignores/ swims away or spits out.

Cycled tank, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate negligible, pH looks a little closer to 7.8 than 8.0 on API test.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[fishywishy]

This is might be the cardinal fish virus that’s been going around for a few years. There’s nothing you can do about it.

 

[Emvy]

I wasn’t aware of that, thanks. Does that have any effect on other fish?

This is might be the cardinal fish virus that’s been going around for a few years. There’s nothing you can do about it.

 

[fishywishy]

I wasn’t aware of that, thanks. Does that have any effect on other fish?

No. Only cardinals and batfish

 

[vetteguy53081]

To prefix, I know how many threads there are about these cardinals not eating/ being picky. This is that to an extent.

The cardinal currently housed with two ocellaris clowns and a blenny.

They went through 30 days of copper power quarantine and were moved to another quarantine tank for observation/ Prazi treatment.

They’ve been in the Prazi for just under two weeks (almost ready for display tank).

The Cardinal took some time to warm up to eating the first week after purchase, but he was doing great eating freeze dried mysis every day while in the copper treatment. Pretty much since I’ve moved him to the next tank, we haven’t observed him eating anything at all, including the freeze dried mysis he was privy to before. Won’t eat pellets, freeze dried mysis, frozen mysis or frozen brine, among another things short of live brine shrimp. He’s also staying in one place in the tank for long periods of time, trying to keep himself still, and doing strange things with his mouth sometimes (shown on video). He reacts to food and comes to it like he wants to eat but then either ignores/ swims away or spits out.

Cycled tank, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate negligible, pH looks a little closer to 7.8 than 8.0 on API test.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

Fish is quite thin and they dont ship well. Cardinal fish virus- Im aware of none and well on top of illnesses. There have been attempted ban on imports due to overbreeding and shipping issues due to drop fish delays.
What are you feeding fish?

 

[Emvy]

The other fish eat pellets at morning and evening. In the other tank the clowns and blenny would rush the pellets at the surface, then they would move and the cardinal would float up to get his freeze dried mysis. He would eat 3-4 them swim back down. He does the same behavior now and acknowledges the food but doesn’t eat it.

At first I thought it was stress from the tank change but we’re starting to get beyond the time he would be over that.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I wasn’t aware of that, thanks. Does that have any effect on other fish?

Welcome to Reef2Reef.

In the video, your cardinal is breathing hard and has poor coloration (gray instead of bright white).

The virus issue is very serious, but really only affects wild caught cardinals, or tank raised cardinals that were housed with wild caught fish. The mortality can reach 80%

All you can do is offer supportive therapy - add aeration and keep the other fish from picking on it. Try some live brine if you can get it,

 

[Emvy]

Welcome to Reef2Reef.

In the video, your cardinal is breathing hard and has poor coloration (gray instead of bright white).

The virus issue is very serious, but really only affects wild caught cardinals, or tank raised cardinals that were housed with wild caught fish. The mortality can reach 80%

All you can do is offer supportive therapy - add aeration and keep the other fish from picking on it. Try some live brine if you can get it,

Thank you for the input. Is this a solution-driven idea or comfort until the impending inevitability?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I can’t say if the supportive care increases survivability, but it certainly won’t hurt.

 

[Emvy]

Thanks for the help. Will take some corrective measures and keep level expectations.

I can’t say if the supportive care increases survivability, but it certainly won’t hurt.

 

[Emvy]

Actually one more question, if it is that virus and doesn’t affect other fish can we move him to the display tank or would it be better to keep him by himself for any amount of time?

I can’t say if the supportive care increases survivability, but it certainly won’t hurt.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Actually one more question, if it is that virus and doesn’t affect other fish can we move him to the display tank or would it be better to keep him by himself for any amount of time?

I wouldn't do that. Since viral diseases cannot be diagnosed in fish with 100% certainty, that also means that it could be something else. I would keep it by itself (or with other quarantined fish) for now.

Here is a write-up I did on this virus:

Banggai Cardinalfish Iridovirus (BCIV)

This fish was originally discovered in 1933 but then lost to science for about 60 years, when the Banggai cardinalfish (Pterapogon kauderni) was “rediscovered” and began entering the tropical fish trade. Aquarists noted how hardy the species was and that they were very easy to reproduce in captivity. A decade later, the price for wild-caught Banggai cardinalfish had decreased fivefold, but the animals were now considered very delicate, with high losses seen in newly acquired wild fish.

What was the cause of this sudden change in the apparent health of this species in captivity? Poor handling, collection with cyanide (unlikely), and bacterial disease were all suggested as possible reasons for this change. A researcher then published a study showing that the presence of an iridovirus was associated with episodes of mass mortality in newly imported cardinalfish (Weber et al. 2009). A similar virus has since been isolated from the common batfish, Platax orbicularis (Sriwanayos et al. 2013), but a corresponding high mortality in aquarium fish of that species has not been noted, perhaps because many fewer batfish are imported for the pet trade than the ever-popular Banggai cardinalfish.

Since there is no cure for this viral disease, captive-raised fish that were never exposed to wild stock, or fish that have subsequently developed immunity by surviving an infection would be the best choices for aquarists. Avoid inexpensive wild-caught Banggai Cardinalfish. Not only do they have a poor survival record, but they’re also being collected at such a high rate that wild populations are locally threatened with extinction.

 

[Emvy]

I wouldn't do that. Since viral diseases cannot be diagnosed in fish with 100% certainty, that also means that it could be something else. I would keep it by itself (or with other quarantined fish) for now.

Here is a write-up I did on this virus:

Banggai Cardinalfish Iridovirus (BCIV)

This fish was originally discovered in 1933 but then lost to science for about 60 years, when the Banggai cardinalfish (Pterapogon kauderni) was “rediscovered” and began entering the tropical fish trade. Aquarists noted how hardy the species was and that they were very easy to reproduce in captivity. A decade later, the price for wild-caught Banggai cardinalfish had decreased fivefold, but the animals were now considered very delicate, with high losses seen in newly acquired wild fish.

What was the cause of this sudden change in the apparent health of this species in captivity? Poor handling, collection with cyanide (unlikely), and bacterial disease were all suggested as possible reasons for this change. A researcher then published a study showing that the presence of an iridovirus was associated with episodes of mass mortality in newly imported cardinalfish (Weber et al. 2009). A similar virus has since been isolated from the common batfish, Platax orbicularis (Sriwanayos et al. 2013), but a corresponding high mortality in aquarium fish of that species has not been noted, perhaps because many fewer batfish are imported for the pet trade than the ever-popular Banggai cardinalfish.

Since there is no cure for this viral disease, captive-raised fish that were never exposed to wild stock, or fish that have subsequently developed immunity by surviving an infection would be the best choices for aquarists. Avoid inexpensive wild-caught Banggai Cardinalfish. Not only do they have a poor survival record, but they’re also being collected at such a high rate that wild populations are locally threatened with extinction.

Sorry for all the questions, so the 4 fish are all at the end of their QT period (30 copper 14 Prazi). You think I should not move the other three fish in the meantime as well?
I’m just wondering what the end means are; if the cardinal ends up passing is the expectation the other 3 should go through the QT treatment all over?
Thanks again for all the help

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry for all the questions, so the 4 fish are all at the end of their QT period (30 copper 14 Prazi). You think I should not move the other three fish in the meantime as well?
I’m just wondering what the end means are; if the cardinal ends up passing is the expectation the other 3 should go through the QT treatment all over?
Thanks again for all the help

That's a tough call. I'd hold the group of 4 fish off display for now (assuming the QT is stable). I'd go 14 days with no treatment - if the cardinal dies, but the other 3 are fine, it probably was the virus. If all 4 make it 14 days, then I don't think it is any disease that needs to be worried about.

The only reason to re quarantine the 3 fish is if they show any symptoms.