Best RODI System???

[tigé21v]

Not looking to hijack this thread, but maybe someone can tell me why almost all the systems use 10" blocks instead of 20"? The only downside I can think of off the top of my head is the increased footprint of a system with 20" cartridges. Everything I've ever read stresses contact time for the carbon blocks to do their job, especially when it comes to breaking the chloramine bond. Common sense says that doubling the block size doubles the contact time. Wouldn't 20" blocks would last twice as long, if not longer? And, I'd think one would have more of a "buffer" to catch chlorine break through. The price difference between the two is pretty much 1 to 1 (20" the same as, or a little more than double the 10" price). With the concern we all have over controlling the purity of our water, why do we, and all the manufacturers of RO/DI units, essentially make things twice as hard as they have to be?
Same with DI cartridges, since again, contact time seems to be the name of the game.

 

[tigé21v]

So what is the clue for the time to change the sediment? Isn't it pressure drop?

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Not looking to hijack this thread, but maybe someone can tell me why almost all the systems use 10" blocks instead of 20"? The only downside I can think of off the top of my head is the increased footprint of a system with 20" cartridges. Everything I've ever read stresses contact time for the carbon blocks to do their job, especially when it comes to breaking the chloramine bond. Common sense says that doubling the block size doubles the contact time. Wouldn't 20" blocks would last twice as long, if not longer? And, I'd think one would have more of a "buffer" to catch chlorine break through. The price difference between the two is pretty much 1 to 1 (20" the same as, or a little more than double the 10" price). With the concern we all have over controlling the purity of our water, why do we, and all the manufacturers of RO/DI units, essentially make things twice as hard as they have to be?
Same with DI cartridges, since again, contact time seems to be the name of the game.

Good question. When we spec carbon blocks the key is flow (gallons per minute). Carbon blocks are rated based on their "chlorine capacity" at a specified flow rate. See the product description here, for example: http://www.buckeyehydro.com/the-chlorine-grabber-0-5-micron/ , or here: http://www.buckeyehydro.com/chloraguard-chloramine-carbon-block/

The higher the desired flow, the larger the carbon block needs to be. There are four common standard carbon block sizes - the four combinations of 10" and 20" lengths, and 2.5" and 4.5" diameters. It's best to keep flows at about half or less than the recommended maximums. You can figure out the flow through your carbon block with this logic:
100 gpd RO water
400 gpd concentrate
=500 gpd total feedwater flow
500/1440=0.35 gallons per minute, or gpm. So for this flow, you'd spec a 10" x 2.5" carbon block as the best value.

If you need higher flows yet, then we spec a backwashing carbon (GAC) tank. These tanks are available in a nearly endless array of sizes to treat various flows. Additionally the tanks can be plumbed in parallel for higher flows yet. In instances where chloramine is the target, we use CGAC in these tanks. Tanks are sized based upon the desired flow rate and the desired contact time (a.k.a. Empty Bed Contact Time, or EBCT), along with some other factors.

Russ

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

So what is the clue for the time to change the sediment? Isn't it pressure drop?

Yes.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Same with DI cartridges, since again, contact time seems to be the name of the game.

We provide DI carts to fit the four standard sized housings:
10" x 2.5"
20" x 2.5"
10" x 4.5"
20" x 4.5"

For example: http://www.buckeyehydro.com/color-changing-mixed-bed-di-resin-cartridge/

If you need bigger yet, we move the DI resin tanks.

Russ

 

[Diesel]

You change the sediment weekly?? I've always thought one doesn't need to worry about replacing the sediment filter until there's a pressure drop.
I have a 0.2 micron sediment. Haven't changed it in.... Honestly don't know how long it has been. I'd have to go back and check my records. I've haven't worried about it because the pressure through the system hasn't changed. I hope I haven't been doing it wrong all this time...

Tbe sediment filter is the first filter in line that is picking up all the bad stuff that will destroy all you other filters.
I have never pressure loss with a booster pump.
My smart RODI controller will tell me which filter to replace.

 

[UpNorthTom]

I really like the BRS RODI systems. They are very easy and affordable to upgrade as your water needs change. I also live close to Minneapolis so I can get next shipping for $2. They also provide get educational videos.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Tbe sediment filter is the first filter in line that is picking up all the bad stuff that will destroy all you other filters.
I have never pressure loss with a booster pump.
My smart RODI controller will tell me which filter to replace.

Yes - you have to assess pressure loss with the booster pump turned off.
So your controller is making that recommendation based on 1) pressure loss, or 2) gallons throughput, or 3) time since last change. Would be a good idea to understand which it is using.

 

[Diesel]

Yes - you have to assess pressure loss with the booster pump turned off.
So your controller is making that recommendation based on 1) pressure loss, or 2) gallons throughput, or 3) time since last change. Would be a good idea to understand which it is using.

Each canister has a sensor.
When you turn the unit on the pump will come on at the same time.
Russ, I still have your RODI unit from before the name change.
Proven true and well.
Coralvue ask me to beta test their smart unit and I never went back.
When I will move to the ranch next year I will hook your unit up again as I will leave everything behind at my house now.
My daughter will take over the Diesel tank so she will need the smart unit as she already knows how to handle it.

 

[fishnchip]

I just got done building my mixing station in my garage. I have to install my BRS 6 stage RODI system with the membrane upgrade along with a Booster pump that will sit above my mixing station.
Got the station up and running & mixing salt with my VarioS4 DC Pump but still have to hook my the RODI... Also, I use a GHL MaxiSA doser that's connected to my salt barrel for my AWC's..
50 GALLON MIXING STATION

BRS 6 STAGE RODI SYSTEM Inc. a Booster Pump

GHL MaxiSA

thats's sweet!!

 

[tigé21v]

Good question. When we spec carbon blocks the key is flow (gallons per minute). Carbon blocks are rated based on their "chlorine capacity" at a specified flow rate. See the product description here, for example: http://www.buckeyehydro.com/the-chlorine-grabber-0-5-micron/ , or here: http://www.buckeyehydro.com/chloraguard-chloramine-carbon-block/

The higher the desired flow, the larger the carbon block needs to be. There are for common standard carbon block sizes - the four combinations of 10" and 20" lengths, and 2.5" and 4.5" diameters. Its best to keep flows at about half or less than the recommended maximums. You can figure out the flow through your carbon block with this logic:
100 gpd RO water
400 gpd concentrate
=500 gpd total feedwater flow
500/1440=0.35 gallons per minute, or gpm. So for this flow, you'd spec a 10" x 2.5" carbon block as the best value.

If you need higher flows yet, then we spec a backwashing carbon (GAC) tank. These tanks are available in a nearly endless array of sizes to treat various flows. Additionally the tanks can be plumbed in parallel for higher flows yet. In instances where chloramine is the target, we use CGAC in these tanks. Tanks are sized based upon the desired flow rate and the desired contact time (a.k.a. Empty Bed Contact Time, or EBCT).

Russ

We provide DI carts to fit the four standard sized housings:
10" x 2.5"
20" x 2.5"
10" x 4.5"
20" x 4.5"

For example: http://www.buckeyehydro.com/color-changing-mixed-bed-di-resin-cartridge/

If you need bigger yet, we move the DI resin tanks.

Russ

"Its best to keep flows at about half or less than the recommended maximums."
So, wouldn't it be advantageous to have the flow slowed to half of that of a 10"? Or is it just overkill?

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

"Its best to keep flows at about half or less than the recommended maximums."
So, wouldn't it be advantageous to have the flow slowed to half of that of a 10"? Or is it just overkill?

The flow through a 10" x 2.5" carbon prefilter in a typical residential-scale RODI system IS less than 50% of the max rated flow (1 gpm).

 

[fish n chips]

i bought this one a coupla months ago: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0043G2D66/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

it's made by AquaFX, not sure if anyone knows anything about them. but it's been working great so far.

 

[Ryanbrs]

Very few people actually need a 6 stage unit unless their burning through resin for various reasons, or have a tough time removing chloramines (if your municipality even uses chloramines at all). So I would personally start with a 4-stage unit. You can always add to it.

Even BRS's universal carbon block for chloramines isn't the best chloramine remover and looks to need 2 blocks to be sure (from their own testing).# If I had chloramines I might even use the Spectrapure carbon filters for that.


From what I noticed, when folks use multiple DI canisters, it's mostly the Anion resin that gets depleted most often, while the cation resin will just take up space forever. So a canister of Anion, followed by the regular mixed bed resin would seem to be the optimal approach.

Any reefer who has a significant level of chloramine in their water supply should run two blocks. This is a vantage point shared by pretty much everyone in the water quality industry. I’d question the quality of advice of anyone who says otherwise because it’s going against a mountain of supporting data.

Just to give everyone a bit closer window into why this is we have been working on a investigates episode. To do that we picked up a Hach CL17 total chlorine analyzer and have been loging performance of various filters for months.

These videos are a bit reef geaky but they are fun to share and produce. This Friday we are releasing one on how all these filters actually handle the ammonia once it is split off the chlorine. I think a lot of people will find it kind of surprising. Particularly those with high pH water sources where the ammonia is likely in a gas form.

As to our universal blocks, we selected a partner to work with because they performed the best of any block we tested for chloramines and are a leader in this type of thecnology. We private label them and order them by the shipping container so we could bring the retail price down

 

[Forsaken77]

Any reefer who has a significant level of chloramine in their water supply should run two blocks. This is a vantage point shared by pretty much everyone in the water quality industry. I’d question the quality of advice of anyone who says otherwise because it’s going against a mountain of supporting data.

Just to give everyone a bit closer window into why this is we have been working on a investigates episode. To do that we picked up a Hach CL17 total chlorine analyzer and have been loging performance of various filters for months.

These videos are a bit reef geaky but they are fun to share and produce. This Friday we are releasing one on how all these filters actually handle the ammonia once it is split off the chlorine. I think a lot of people will find it kind of surprising. Particularly those with high pH water sources where the ammonia is likely in a gas form.

As to our universal blocks, we selected a partner to work with because they performed the best of any block we tested for chloramines and are a leader in this type of thecnology. We private label them and order them by the shipping container so we could bring the retail price down

As I said, if you have a tough time with chloramines, that would be a reason for more than a standard 4 stage setup. In the very beginning of the post. Not everybody is dealing with chloramines in their water. It seems you approach it, mostly, as if they are. And it may be an eventuality that we all do have chloramine in our water one day, but as of now, there is still a large portion of the US that does not.

People with regular chlorine can sufficiently filter their water with a regular 4 stage system and the proper filters/blocks. I know, because I do it without issue. Been buying my sediment and carbon blocks from you guys for years as well.

If you don't have a need for chloramine removal, or very high tds source water (as I also mentioned), is there a reason to get a 6 stage system when a 4 stage will accomplish everything, for cheaper? Why even sell them if everyone needed 5-6 stages? Like I said, it can always be added to if it's needed.

I do very much appreciate all the testing you guys do because it brings a ton of knowledge to everyone in the hobby. We all buy products from you guys, but informing people of other options available to them, and that everything doesn't always need to be overkill, is helpful to many people that may not require a 6 stage system right off the bat, or at all. Though it is obviously on the individual to know what's in their own water. Kind of how you don't need a dump truck to do what a pickup is capable of (only analogy I could think of quickly )

Quick question... Do you think you guys may add the triple inline tds meter as an option in your preassembled units? It would be more helpful for people to know what their source water is without swapping probes around. It's a helpful tool in knowing your rejection rate and I've noticed a lot of people don't purchase a separate, reliable, tds pen if they have an inline unit.

 

[fishnchip]

Hey guys! So my RODI system is coming in today (pretty excited) and I was wondering how everyone mixes their salt? I’ve heard of people buying pumps and heaters for this. Is this necessary? I’m only doing 5 gallon water changes a week so idk if I’d need the equipment. Anyways, I’d love to know how everyone mixes their salt and if they use any equipment!?

 

[fishnchip]

Oh and I’m thinking of going with the IO reef crystals. If anyone has had any problems with it please lmk!!

 

[Ryanbrs]

As I said, if you have a tough time with chloramines, that would be a reason for more than a standard 4 stage setup. In the very beginning of the post. Not everybody is dealing with chloramines in their water. It seems you approach it, mostly, as if they are. And it may be an eventuality that we all do have chloramine in our water one day, but as of now, there is still a large portion of the US that does not.

People with regular chlorine can sufficiently filter their water with a regular 4 stage system and the proper filters/blocks. I know, because I do it without issue. Been buying my sediment and carbon blocks from you guys for years as well.

If you don't have a need for chloramine removal, or very high tds source water (as I also mentioned), is there a reason to get a 6 stage system when a 4 stage will accomplish everything, for cheaper? Why even sell them if everyone needed 5-6 stages? Like I said, it can always be added to if it's needed.

I do very much appreciate all the testing you guys do because it brings a ton of knowledge to everyone in the hobby. We all buy products from you guys, but informing people of other options available to them, and that everything doesn't always need to be overkill, is helpful to many people that may not require a 6 stage system right off the bat, or at all. Though it is obviously on the individual to know what's in their own water. Kind of how you don't need a dump truck to do what a pickup is capable of (only analogy I could think of quickly )

Quick question... Do you think you guys may add the triple inline tds meter as an option in your preassembled units? It would be more helpful for people to know what their source water is without swapping probes around. It's a helpful tool in knowing your rejection rate and I've noticed a lot of people don't purchase a separate, reliable, tds pen if they have an inline unit.

Thanks for the feedback we have discussed the triple TDS meter for a long time but the general feedback is those buying the 4 stage units would like to keep the cost down. I'll share your feedback at our meeting next week because things can always change. For what it is worth the 4 stage units are our #1 seller by a long shot and perfectly suitable for all kinds of applications.

Our goal with the other configurations is to provide evidence-based info as to the benefits provided with the additional stages rather than just a blanket statement of it’s better. It is hard to share those benefits without marking it seem like it is “needed”. That’s not the case; there are just benefits to different approaches.

As to the chloramines, it’s believed that more than 50% of the larger city water supply’s are now treating with chloramines for at least part of the year. So at this point, it makes sense to start assuming they are in the water rather than not until we find out otherwise. There is also a lot of disinformation out there regarding chloramines and proper treatment so we are just trying to clear that up with strong supporting evidence rather than a simple statement.

 

[Frop]

Spectrapure. My home TDS is around 670+ after the water softener and it does the job for me. About to buy replacement filters. Been at around 2TDS after the first DI filter since I got it and I've had these filters for around a full year. About 75 gallons of saltwater I top off around half a gallon fresh water daily. I don't make much salt water (shame on me).

But the RO filter usually puts me around 10 TDS or lower. I notice I get better numbers in winter than summer. Also I make water faster in summer. It seems crappy but my house is like 80 years old so I imagine the city pipes are really old leaching all kinds of garbage. From the street the TDS is 720 if I remember right.