BIG AND LOUD CONTROLLER COMPARISON THREAD

[Daniel@R2R]

I think if you want something useful, and to keep it real, you should limit information to what is shipping, not what is promised. By Neptune or any other brand.

YES!!! 100% agree!! Case in point, I won the Midstream at the 2015 MACNA...still don't have a unit (though to be fair, I'm told I'll receive one as soon as they start shipping...). Promises may be well-intended, but if we're comparing products, they need to be actually available...not just ideas or concepts.

 

[d2mini]

A few things that tipped the scale for me to GHL...

1. The most stable. There are basically ZERO reports of a Profilux locking up, crashing a tank, etc. 5 years later I can attest to that. About the biggest problem I ever heard of was screens going dim.
2. Doesn't require a bunch of separate modules. The main box can take expansion cards if you need more, but already includes multiple temp, level, salinity, and orp connections
3. Easily upgradeable and fixable at home. No need to send things back to GHL. No downtime.
4. Build quality is outstanding.
5. Was always the easiest to program with no programming language to learn. Choose form pull down menus, click radion buttons, fill in values. Easy.
6. All that and it did pretty much everything the other controllers did. It even had auto water change programming built in. All i needed was an extra level sensor.

Once I realized the above, it was a no brainer for me.

Many products miss initial ship dates.
Better to be a little late, than push a product out before it's truly ready like some others do.
Looking at GHL's track record, a few extra weeks on a new product is nothing to worry about.

 

[ReefRocker]

This hobby is truly an addiction, there's no denying that! :)

When we pour thousands of dollars into this hobby, working to develop the reef of our dreams, there's only one controller company I can truly put my trust on and that is, GHL.

Reliability
I've been a proud owner of their ProfiLux controller since 2008 and I can easily say that NOT ONCE has the controller ever failed me or my tank. It does everything I need it to do and so much more. If you do some heavy searching for GHL ProfiLux failures, you'll be hard pressed to find hardware related issues. No controller system crashes, no random disconnects, no powerstrips randomly turning on or catching fire, etc. Take a look at the competition and it's a night and day difference in terms of reliability. Sure, the other companies may have flashier and nicer looking interfaces, but to me, none of that matters if the system doesn't work without hiccups.

Clean Design
In terms of the design of the ProfiLux, it's the most compact system I've come across. No mess of wires coming from this module and that module. That'd be a nightmare for me as I like to keep my wires nice and tidy!

With the ProfiLux, everything is connected to a single box. With others, if you want to add a second temperature probe, guess what, you need to buy a module for that and find a place to mount it! If you want to add your own float switch, yep, you'll need a module for that too! With ProfiLux, these kind of tasks are as easy as picking up the appropriate expansion card and popping it into the same ProfiLux controller box. Same footprint and more functions at your fingertips without having to worry about finding a space to mount another box, never mind hiding the wires...

The only external box I can see people needing is their Vortech Controller and LBF-AP box if they happen to own a Vortech or want to connect their Gyre or control their existing compatible LED fixture.

Expansion Capabilities
Continuing off of the same idea as above, if one manages to fill all the available expansion card slots you can always get a GHL Expansion Box 2 to add to the ProfiLux system. Doing so, will provide you with additional temp, pH, salinity, redox, 1-10v interfaces, level sensor ports, and even more expansion card slots. Although I personally haven't had the need for this add-on accessory, I can say that having such an expansive option is fantastic. Especially considering that you get so many more ports by adding another small footprint, no extra modules needed here!

Now that I think about it, their Expansion Box 2 also fits perfectly with those who have several nearby systems. Simply give each sensor a description and you'll know which system the probe belongs to.

Ease of Use
ProfiLux controllers are setup differently, in a good way. :)

It's a breath of fresh air when I know that I don't have to have any prior coding knowledge or even ask if my code is correct. If I need to make adjustments to my controller settings, I just use drop-down boxes and assign those commands to one of my powerbar outlets. Even with the more advanced functions, there is no need to use any coding. I just use their Programmable Logic options from the drop-down boxes and I'm good to go. If I need support, the GHL team is there to help.

Support
Coming from what their support was like years ago, it keeps getting better. The new GHL support team have proven themselves to be an invaluable resource to the company. I've had and seen questions answered directly by them on the weekends and even holidays! What company does that?!?

They're personalized approach to support is fantastic.

In addition, they've also made easy to read product manuals and launched their YouTube channel and have begun posting how-to videos for their products.

Their new ProfiLux 4
The new P4 will work the same way as the current ProfiLux 3 controllers, with the addition of new features. Unfortunately, my funds do not allow me to upgrade to the P4 just yet, but for sure I'll be getting this when I'm ready. I'm confident that the company's reputation for true reliability will continue on with this product and beyond.

***End of rant***

 

[Terence]

One more thing to keep things in perspective. Neptune Systems has tens of thousands of users on the Apex product right now. This very second. With their aquariums in their hands - wherever they are - communicating to the cloud. The next most popular, comparable products out there, have likely a factor of ten less current customers. And that may be generous.

This has to be kept in mind whenever comparing the volume of feedback you hear - especially to the negative.

 

[Terence]

BTW, also the impression on ease of use for Apex is a bit out of date. With the new Apex, along with many UI improvements, most all common tasks can be accomplished with easy to use wizards. In fact, the most common items that need configured on an aquarium are pre-configured into the Apex from the factory, just plug it in. Much of the more complex configuration you see out there is for doing things that quite frankly cannot even be easily accomplished on other systems. Also, much of the complexity of the Apex comes with having to integrate it into a home network - this is a major issue for most IoT devices due to the wide range of network configurations, home routers, ISP set ups, etc. found in today's modern home. Those systems that do not use the cloud or access outside the home are obviously much easier to set up and use - but then what is the point if you cannot access your aquarium when you are away or get alerts when something is going wrong?

If you want to see how easy it is to set up the new Apex, here is a video I did:


I would love to see a similar video from any other controller out there where you could get it set up that easily - and connect to it from outside your home.

 

[sde1500]

Interesting discussion so far, one that I am certainly following along with as it is a future upgrade plan for me. Def seems to be a few good ones out there. Though the argument who has more users really doesn't fit the "who is better" argument. There are more Fords on the road, but no one will tell you that makes them better than Ferraris. Not saying that analogy is comparing one to the other, just a thought. Though the points made by reefrocker and d2mini are some I've read other places as well and have me leaning GHL.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Interesting discussion so far, one that I am certainly following along with as it is a future upgrade plan for me. Def seems to be a few good ones out there. Though the argument who has more users really doesn't fit the "who is better" argument. There are more Fords on the road, but no one will tell you that makes them better than Ferraris. Not saying that analogy is comparing one to the other, just a thought. Though the points made by reefrocker and d2mini are some I've read other places as well and have me leaning GHL.

That's a good point. However, I believe @Terence was making the point that having more users will mean more feedback is available on Apex. Just by human nature, people are complainers and so will generally tend to post negative feedback quicker than positive feedback (so don't be quick to write them off just because you find a higher quantity of complaints...those should be understood in ratios of something like 10:1). At least that was my interpretation of his point. Also, with price points being relatively comparable, Neptune's user base may not automatically qualify them as "THE best" but it will certainly speak to the level of satisfaction on a general level (people don't keep buying something they don't like).

Terence, please feel free to correct me if I've gotten your point wrong in any way.

 

[DarkSky]

BTW, also the impression on ease of use for Apex is a bit out of date. With the new Apex, along with many UI improvements, most all common tasks can be accomplished with easy to use wizards.

Good to know. The review of the Cerebra I posted where I compared it to set up vs. the Apex was using an older model. I haven't had a chance to use a new version yet.

 

[d2mini]

Yep, the more units out there, the more you are going to hear about various issues. When something goes wrong, people complain. When things are going well, they keep quiet.
But regardless of user base, there should at least be SOME instances of Profilux failure reported.
Here in the states, people just aren't familiar with GHL so it doesn't even end up on their radar, or they just assume it's not as good because Apex is so popular.
It's amazing how people don't do the research for themselves, they just follow.
It's a different story across the pond.
Maybe europeans just don't like to complain as much. ;)

As far as setup, the profilux is just as easy... (and no... there are no pre setup sockets). It's always been this easy.
Plug in your probes and go. And calibration is done right on the integrated screen.
The initial wifi connection can be a little challenging but get one of these and anyone can get connected to their home wifi in just minutes. Plug n play.
https://www.amazon.com/Netgear-Powerline-Extra-Outlet-PLP1200-100PAS/dp/B00S6DBGIS
I've been using this method and it works flawlessly. Good option for the IT challenged.
Getting set up for remote notifications is the one thing that could be a little easier.

Speaking of sockets and referencing the build quality/robustness of the system, it uses and I quote "extremely robust and reliable HIC (High Inrush Current) industry-relays. These relays are specified for 16 A @ 250 VAC and are able to withstand even up to 160 A for a short while, switching of critical loads such as MH-ballasts, switching power supplies or large chillers is no problem at all."
I once had a heater melt a ReefKeeper power bar because it wasn't plugged into the correct socket. So it melted, nearly started a fire, and my heater was stuck on.
I've opened up the GHL power bar... it's a beast.

Here's a great vid by an R2R member that gives a really good overview of the software and how full featured it is. And how easy it is to use.

 

[erk]

I know this is a thread on comparison of existing controllers, but I can't help but pitch in the custom/diy approach. I'm making my own with a Raspberry Pi 3 and Arduino Uno. Uno for the analog and PWM, and Raspberry Pi for internet connectivity and ease of programming in Python. They communicate via USB serial connection. So far I have developed code to control the two Lumia 5.2s and power on and off six T5 bulbs. I incorporated weather and moonlight based on moon phase. Then there is the temperature control code where I plot temperature, switch on and off an outlet for the heaters. I also have the code save the max and min values for the day to a CSV file and clear out the previous days data. Next step is develop the code to switch on and off the rest of my outlets to control return pump, skimmer, vodka dosing, zeolite reactor, etc. I also need to develop the GUI which I plan to do in QT Designer and display on an old table. Maybe this method isn't for everyone, but if you enjoy electronics and programming, maybe you should consider it.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I know this is a thread on comparison of existing controllers, but I can't help but pitch in the custom/diy approach. I'm making my own with a Raspberry Pi 3 and Arduino Uno. Uno for the analog and PWM, and Raspberry Pi for internet connectivity and ease of programming in Python. They communicate via USB serial connection. So far I have developed code to control the two Lumia 5.2s and power on and off six T5 bulbs. I incorporated weather and moonlight based on moon phase. Then there is the temperature control code where I plot temperature, switch on and off an outlet for the heaters. I also have the code save the max and min values for the day to a CSV file and clear out the previous days data. Next step is develop the code to switch on and off the rest of my outlets to control return pump, skimmer, vodka dosing, zeolite reactor, etc. I also need to develop the GUI which I plan to do in QT Designer and display on an old table. Maybe this method isn't for everyone, but if you enjoy electronics and programming, maybe you should consider it.

Definitely not for the novice, but for those who really like DIY more than plug 'n play, it's a good option.

 

[Scott.h]

I went apex over vertex because I got tired of all the false hope from marketing that kept getting pushed back. It had such a black market vibe. Like someone couldn't get them manufactured from their basement fast enough. Then it became that you could get the controller, but not the probes. Once I combined that with how new and under informed people were with the system, the lack of solid information combined with support, I couldn't do it. Despite the beta price point of half.

The second half of this reasoning was that I was afraid of programming the apex. I heard horror stories about programming and writing code, and trying to read through a phone book of an instruction manual. I'm not sure what it used to be like, but fusion was way more simplistic then I feared. In two partial days I had a solid grasp. When I got stuck I wasn't very happy with the confusing results I got from the Neptune forum (seems to be confused people trying to help other confused people, with one overworked guy trying to stomp out fires), but allowing customer support to login to my unit and show me some things while talking me through them was a quick simple fix for the fine tuning. Kind of like apple software, it might be a little more, but the software is streamlined, and just works. I think some of the probe technology can, and will be improved, but overall using it at the core content, ..tank insurance is worth the money. Since I've bought the 16 model I've added a dos, second apex, and considering a third. The end goal is less work, less stress, and more enjoyment.

 

[Salty1962]

I started off many moons ago with a ReefKeeper Lite then to a RKL and now an APEX classic Gold. While the RK Lite+ and RKL served their purpose, they were inadequate for my long term requirements. Since running my APEX for the last 6~7 mths, I have found it to be an awesome platform to control and monitor your tank from. My livestock would agree as well. I use a WXM for my Radions, 1Link for my WAV and topoff, Surface alarms for water leakage, Temp, ORP, Ph and conductive probes. I love being able to receive emails to issues within my system and remote access anywhere in the world. I'm a definite convert:)

 

[Salty1962]

I went apex over vertex because I got tired of all the false hope from marketing that kept getting pushed back. It had such a black market vibe. Like someone couldn't get them manufactured from their basement fast enough. Then it became that you could get the controller, but not the probes. Once I combined that with how new and under informed people were with the system, the lack of solid information combined with support, I couldn't do it. Despite the beta price point of half.

The second half of this reasoning was that I was afraid of programming the apex. I heard horror stories about programming and writing code, and trying to read through a phone book of an instruction manual. I'm not sure what it used to be like, but fusion was way more simplistic then I feared. In two partial days I had a solid grasp. When I got stuck I wasn't very happy with the confusing results I got from the Neptune forum (seems to be confused people trying to help other confused people, with one overworked guy trying to stomp out fires), but allowing customer support to login to my unit and show me some things while talking me through them was a quick simple fix for the fine tuning. Kind of like apple software, it might be a little more, but the software is streamlined, and just works. I think some of the probe technology can, and will be improved, but overall using it at the core content, ..tank insurance is worth the money. Since I've bought the 16 model I've added a dos, second apex, and considering a third. The end goal is less work, less stress, and more enjoyment.

Fusion makes programming a breeze;)

 

[Rob Lion]

I know this is a thread on comparison of existing controllers, but I can't help but pitch in the custom/diy approach. I'm making my own with a Raspberry Pi 3 and Arduino Uno. Uno for the analog and PWM, and Raspberry Pi for internet connectivity and ease of programming in Python. They communicate via USB serial connection. So far I have developed code to control the two Lumia 5.2s and power on and off six T5 bulbs. I incorporated weather and moonlight based on moon phase. Then there is the temperature control code where I plot temperature, switch on and off an outlet for the heaters. I also have the code save the max and min values for the day to a CSV file and clear out the previous days data. Next step is develop the code to switch on and off the rest of my outlets to control return pump, skimmer, vodka dosing, zeolite reactor, etc. I also need to develop the GUI which I plan to do in QT Designer and display on an old table. Maybe this method isn't for everyone, but if you enjoy electronics and programming, maybe you should consider it.

I agree, with my own DIY Raspberry Pi Reef Controller / Monitor I built / still building ....

1. It's a lot cheaper!!
2. I get EXACTLY what I need, I don't pay for what I don't need.
3. I can use any hardware I want or already own, no need to buy proprietory stuff.
4. I can build upon it slowly
5. Reefing is my Hobby, building my own controller is just an extension to that hobby
6. It's a lot easier than people think
7. it's fun to do
8. I understand it's workings better, and I am only limited by my imagination, and not my wallet.

Commercial Reef controllers are great, just way too expensive for me to even start with.

 

[DarkSky]

I agree, with my own DIY Raspberry Pi Reef Controller / Monitor I built / still building ....

1. It's a lot cheaper!!
2. I get EXACTLY what I need, I don't pay for what I don't need.
3. I can use any hardware I want or already own, no need to buy proprietory stuff.
4. I can build upon it slowly
5. Reefing is my Hobby, building my own controller is just an extension to that hobby
6. It's a lot easier than people think
7. it's fun to do
8. I understand it's workings better, and I am only limited by my imagination, and not my wallet.

Commercial Reef controllers are great, just way too expensive for me to even start with.

That's pretty neat. What'd you write the code/UI in?

 

[Rob Lion]

GUI is QT Designer... real easy to do..
Main programming is in PyQT (Python) which I had never used before, but there is a ton of teaching materials etc on the web.
There are a lot of add-ons you can get for Python, the graphing was simple with Matplotlib.
I use SQLite3 for the database.

I have AI Prime lights, I added then in a simple way too, they already have a great interface and are wifi enabled, you can adjust them via the web or an app, so all I did was to build a web browser into my app to use the native AI web page, saved me on trying to replicate all of AI's features and took me an hour to achieve.

For the sockets I didn't want to do heavy wiring / soldering, so I searched the web and found Radio Frequency controlled sockets, they look like normal extension leads that you control via a remote, but you can also add a RF transceiver onto the Raspberry Pi and have that do it for you :)

I use Jebao (RW4/RW8) Wave makers, these are wifi enabled too and can talk to each other... but guess what??? yep.. Radio frequency ! :) .. I could't find the codes for the actions and Jebao wouldn't say, but again after much searching I found a company that sell remote controls for the pumps..

So with this I could send and capture the codes on the Pi to us in my controller.

I am currently working on trying to get my Pi controller to work with my Jebao DP4 dosing pump, but have been distracted lately with creating an automated live brine shrimp hatchery that I can control from my Pi :)

 

[reefwiser]

I have and do use all the different brands of controllers in the aquarium hobby market here in the US. I find them all to be useful. Everyone can find faults with the controllers. When I look for a controller I was them to be compact, easy to upgrade, and easy for the end user to program and understand. Neptune brought out the Fusion web based view for the processor . GHL currently uses their GCC control program and Web based control plus Phone app's. Being a PLC industrial programer I lean towards the GHL software and equipment as they use more industrial components that are what I am use to using in tough environments.

 

[TheEngineer]

Nice thread idea! I'm a Reef Angel fan myself. I've been running one on my tank for years with rock-solid performance. Part of what sold me initially was the cost. I don't think there is another controller out there that compares with features and cost to the RA. I shouldn't have to pay $1000 or even close to it for a controller that handles the typical things we all want. Temperature control, pH measurement, outlet control, PWM/analog dimming and remote monitoring.

I like that it is built on an Arduino. It means I can tweak things exactly how I want them when I want to. It also means I can expand it with anything I want and I can make things myself if no one else does. Support is awesome too.

@Terence I appreciate you defending your products here, but I think we're just sharing personal experiences.

 

[jeffrey holloway]

After reviewing the info on all the available controllers I could find, I choose the Neptune Apex gold for my system. It provided me with all the monitoring and control that I needed to get my system up and running. I have added additional power bars, a DOS, a PAR meter, and a VDM for my pumps and lights. I purchased APEX ready equipment knowing I could control and monitor it. I will not purchase any equipment that is not APEX Ready or able to accept 3rd party control. But like everything else in this hobby "what works for you is best for you".