Bio load with bigger fish

[PYRU]

I like to keep bigger fish, but I'm having a hard time balancing expensive wc's vs fish I want to keep.

Long ago I had a porcupine in a 180. The bio load wasnt that much even at full grown with a few buddies it let live. Wc's were pretty small weekly.

I have a 210 and was looking at a 240-375. How bad are bigger fish on sw systems maintenance wise? Say a full grown emp angel or clown trigger or a star/stripes puffer just as examples.

I'm not looking for dead nuts accuracy but just an idea of what I'm getting into. I run a drip system on fw with big fish, but this is fairly new territory for me. I have a powerful skimmer & plan on running either chaeto/xenia

 

[nereefpat]

The worst are large predators, especially eels, groupers, lions, large puffers. There's a member on RC that kept a single eel (fimby maybe, or tess?) and couldn't keep nitrates below 100, no matter how many water changes, until he built a remote deep sand bed.

10% water changes do become a pain on large tanks. Large mixing containers and pumps can make that easier. A big skimmer with a big sump/fuge will help, and so would carbon dosing. You can look into a remote deep sand bed to keep nitrates low.

If it will be fish only, then you won't need to keep nitrates or phosphates low, as long as you can manage the algae. And for the most part, you won't need to manage alk, Ca, Mg, or trace elements.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Wondering the same thing, perhaps phrased differently. ‘Pound for pound’, would the bio-load from large fish be greater, less than, or about the same as when they were small? Maybe use a small Yellow Tang or Foxface (as typically sold by the LSF), compared to ‘fully grown’ in a home aquarium, as an example. Thanks...

 

[Aardvark1134]

Best example is that a fish that is 2x as long is also 2x as tall and 2x as wide making it actually 8 times as much fish. So a 12 inch blue tang is about the same load as 8x 6inch blue tangs.

 

[PYRU]

The worst are large predators, especially eels, groupers, lions, large puffers. There's a member on RC that kept a single eel (fimby maybe, or tess?) and couldn't keep nitrates below 100, no matter how many water changes, until he built a remote deep sand bed.

10% water changes do become a pain on large tanks. Large mixing containers and pumps can make that easier. A big skimmer with a big sump/fuge will help, and so would carbon dosing. You can look into a remote deep sand bed to keep nitrates low.

If it will be fish only, then you won't need to keep nitrates or phosphates low, as long as you can manage the algae. And for the most part, you won't need to manage alk, Ca, Mg, or trace elements.

Wow that's crazy. I was hoping to do a "dirty" reef so to speak with an island of xenia, mushroom, & gsp. There's dirty then theres 100ppm dirty though. I doubt anyone could fight off algae problems with sw lighting and that level of nutrients.

I was hoping it would be a little better since you're starting with rodi, but I definitely don't want to play the multiple large wc's a week game. 10% is good to go 75% is a deal breaker.

Over 12" puffer is probably out of the question

 

[nereefpat]

Wow that's crazy. I was hoping to do a "dirty" reef so to speak with an island of xenia, mushroom, & gsp. There's dirty then theres 100ppm dirty though. I doubt anyone could fight off algae problems with sw lighting and that level of nutrients.

I was hoping it would be a little better since you're starting with rodi, but I definitely don't want to play the multiple large wc's a week game. 10% is good to go 75% is a deal breaker.

Over 12" puffer is probably out of the question

No, don't give up on the idea. Xenia, mushrooms, gsp, maybe some palys and leathers too. Like I said, there are ways to keep nutrients down without large water changes. And the things you will keep don't really require much, if any, dosing.

 

[PYRU]

No, don't give up on the idea. Xenia, mushrooms, gsp, maybe some palys and leathers too. Like I said, there are ways to keep nutrients down without large water changes. And the things you will keep don't really require much, if any, dosing.

Alright I'm on board. I've done vodka/vinegar in the past. I've done a few searches on remote sand beds, but do you have a link to a detailed layout? Opinions are all over the place with them.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

I employ a massive refugium with graciliria and cheato in the sump of my puffer tank. This has kept my nitrates to around 15, but I am pulling out gallons and gallons of macro a month. Great for fellow reef club members who have tangs, and great for my tangs lol. I do water changes, but not that often. Mainly just do them when I feel like it. The tank is a 180, with a 90 long (old oceanic tank that is 60" long and short) for the sump. 36" of the sump is refugium only and where the water drains from the DT. there is then the skimmer (huge old reef octo nwb250), then the return. The fuge is lit by 3x 300w viparspectra lights at 100% and 10" off the water.

Until going with a massive fuge and only employing the basic sump setup, nitrates were a nightmare. always 75-100. I did do some carbon dosing and got the nitrates to around 5, but started to get some cyano going, so stopped. I figure fish only with a few soft corals here and there that do not mind dirty water, may as well settle for 15 or so on NO3.

 

[PYRU]

I employ a massive refugium with graciliria and cheato in the sump of my puffer tank. This has kept my nitrates to around 15, but I am pulling out gallons and gallons of macro a month. Great for fellow reef club members who have tangs, and great for my tangs lol. I do water changes, but not that often. Mainly just do them when I feel like it. The tank is a 180, with a 90 long (old oceanic tank that is 60" long and short) for the sump. 36" of the sump is refugium only and where the water drains from the DT. there is then the skimmer (huge old reef octo nwb250), then the return. The fuge is lit by 3x 300w viparspectra lights at 100% and 10" off the water.

Until going with a massive fuge and only employing the basic sump setup, nitrates were a nightmare. always 75-100. I did do some carbon dosing and got the nitrates to around 5, but started to get some cyano going, so stopped. I figure fish only with a few soft corals here and there that do not mind dirty water, may as well settle for 15 or so on NO3.

Holy crap 3x300w @100% only 10" up???

This is exactly what I was looking for and what I'm looking to do. Can I see some pics if it's not too much trouble?

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Holy crap 3x300w @100% only 10" up???

This is exactly what I was looking for and what I'm looking to do. Can I see some pics if it's not too much trouble?

I can snag you some when I get off work. If the sump was 100% cheato I would not run the lights up that high. Graciliria seems to like a lot more light if nutrients are present. It also needs to be noted, they did not start that high lol. I have the dimmable kind and started at about 50% and slowly worked them up. I do have a few pics from the last time I posted about if anyone wanted any free macro lol. The only issue I have is when it gets really full the top part of the macro will bleach a little, as it cannot tumble around anymore. When I see a little white, time to pull some out.

 

[nereefpat]

Alright I'm on board. I've done vodka/vinegar in the past. I've done a few searches on remote sand beds, but do you have a link to a detailed layout? Opinions are all over the place with them.

No, I don't...sorry.

I would recommend starting with a large sump, with a big skimmer, and as big of a fuge section with macro that you can fit. @Eagle_Steve 's fuge that is half as big as his display and full of chaeto sounds great.
See how that goes.
Add carbon dosing if needed.
Then think about extreme measures (deep sand bed, sulfur denitrator, etc) if needed down the road.

 

[nonstopfish]

Algae Turf Scrubber is another option. I am using a large skimmer, display type refugium(lots of algaes, but also some fish so not sure how net positive it is filtration wise), and ATS on my fowlr. I have done Chaeto and DSB in the past with good success, but it took up more space and the chaeto needed more light than an ATS.

 

[PYRU]

No, I don't...sorry.

I would recommend starting with a large sump, with a big skimmer, and as big of a fuge section with macro that you can fit. @Eagle_Steve 's fuge that is half as big as his display and full of chaeto sounds great.
See how that goes.
Add carbon dosing if needed.
Then think about extreme measures (deep sand bed, sulfur denitrator, etc) if needed down the road.

Thanks for the help.

 

[PYRU]

I can snag you some when I get off work. If the sump was 100% cheato I would not run the lights up that high. Graciliria seems to like a lot more light if nutrients are present. It also needs to be noted, they did not start that high lol. I have the dimmable kind and started at about 50% and slowly worked them up. I do have a few pics from the last time I posted about if anyone wanted any free macro lol. The only issue I have is when it gets really full the top part of the macro will bleach a little, as it cannot tumble around anymore. When I see a little white, time to pull some out.

That's a ton of macro. Yep definitely copying your sump. Thanks for the pics and reply that's a huge help.

You're not that far from me in bham.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Algae Turf Scrubber is another option. I am using a large skimmer, display type refugium(lots of algaes, but also some fish so not sure how net positive it is filtration wise), and ATS on my fowlr. I have done Chaeto and DSB in the past with good success, but it took up more space and the chaeto needed more light than an ATS.

I agree with an ATS as well. They do work great, take up less space, and use less power overall then a very large fuge. If i decided to do something differnt, I would go the ATS route, as a huge sump is somewhat of a pain in some ways. Although I can supply the Nashville and surrounding area with free Graciliria whenever anyone in the reef club needs it lol. Plus my dwarf pygmy goats love it too.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Well, for what it’s worth, I just put my DIY ‘algae growing contraption’ online, running off a manifold. Inside the sump itself (double duty) I will give some lettuce algae a shot, using the same grow-lamp. I have an overstocked FOWLR 90 gallon with a 3 part sump; let’s see how the nitrates and phosphates go with a little macro algae help. :)

 

[roberthu526]

Get a big refugium or use carbon dosing. Many people have big fish in reef tank with no issues. I have seen 450 gallon tanks with multiple foot long tangs and the SPS looked awesome.

 

[PYRU]

I agree with an ATS as well. They do work great, take up less space, and use less power overall then a very large fuge. If i decided to do something differnt, I would go the ATS route, as a huge sump is somewhat of a pain in some ways. Although I can supply the Nashville and surrounding area with free Graciliria whenever anyone in the reef club needs it lol. Plus my dwarf pygmy goats love it too.

Well, for what it’s worth, I just put my DIY ‘algae growing contraption’ online, running off a manifold. Inside the sump itself (double duty) I will give some lettuce algae a shot, using the same grow-lamp. I have an overstocked FOWLR 90 gallon with a 3 part sump; let’s see how the nitrates and phosphates go with a little macro algae help. :)

I'm looking into now. I've heard of them but don't really have clue about how to set it up

 

[Eagle_Steve]

I'm looking into now. I've heard of them but don't really have clue about how to set it up

ATS is super easy and can even be done as a DIY project. There are a ton of options out there for them, so just research and possibly make a post getting others who have them opinion. As I have never ran one, but know of a ton of successful and healthy tanks locally that use them due to space limitations.

 

[PYRU]

I employ a massive refugium with graciliria and cheato in the sump of my puffer tank. This has kept my nitrates to around 15, but I am pulling out gallons and gallons of macro a month. Great for fellow reef club members who have tangs, and great for my tangs lol. I do water changes, but not that often. Mainly just do them when I feel like it. The tank is a 180, with a 90 long (old oceanic tank that is 60" long and short) for the sump. 36" of the sump is refugium only and where the water drains from the DT. there is then the skimmer (huge old reef octo nwb250), then the return. The fuge is lit by 3x 300w viparspectra lights at 100% and 10" off the water.

Until going with a massive fuge and only employing the basic sump setup, nitrates were a nightmare. always 75-100. I did do some carbon dosing and got the nitrates to around 5, but started to get some cyano going, so stopped. I figure fish only with a few soft corals here and there that do not mind dirty water, may as well settle for 15 or so on NO3.

Out of curiosity what puffers do you have at what size?