Biota sent wrong clam?

[Biota_Marine]

Hey, everyone, I'm glad we could get this sorted out and confirm it's the correct clam. We appreciate all our customers and the support for what we do.

We sort and label our WYSIWYG clams, and we even have little "cages" we put them in to stop them from moving in the tanks. We also check WYSIWYG photos when we're picking the clams so we can double check it's the correct one.

Those who mentioned that clams look different when viewed top down are correct. Clams have unique properties causing this fascinating phenomenon: https://shop.thebiotagroup.com/blogs/news/why-do-clams-look-different-when-viewed-from-above

We photograph our clams from above with a DSLR and Porthole. When we receive our clams, we scrub them thoroughly with a toothbrush, so this is why some of the shells seem very clean and white. You'll notice some of them have a bit of darker staining from normal benthic growths, but we like to get them really clean before we photograph and ship them. We shoot under 20k lighting, but we also use a handheld 10k light to get more accurate color. We do minimal editing, mainly just to remove the background.

We've been doing WYSIWYG for many years at Biota, and our staff actually has a lot more experience with this outside of Biota. Biota Felicia was the Diver's Den photographer and marine life identifier in the mid to late 2000s, so we've really honed in our WYSIWYG protocols over the years to make it the best experience possible for our customers.

 

[BryanM]

I hesitate to get involved, but from a different thread one thing struck me as being golden advice....

I would not purchase WYSIWYG items that are on a black background. I want to see the item, whats around it, a frag deck, anything. This screams heavily edited.

To me, this looks like the same clam, fwiw.

 

[areefer01]

@BeanAnimal In my experience people who "call things as they see them" use that as an excuse to be rude and judgemental. To the point it's a bit of a trope/meme nowadays. Perhaps you're the exception but in this specific case, you were not.

I don't need, nor do I want to feel warm and fuzzy about this. I don't know you personally and in terms of my feelings or what you derisively call "silly", I could not care less. I feel like your attitude in this situation is a societal level problem and has led to many of the issues our country is facing. I was trying to do my part by calling your response out as I see it, as you put things. So I may have been silly in your view, but you were a ******* not just in my opinion but in others as well. Maybe you're just in a position in life where you don't have to care how you treat others, and you don't see a need to try to consider why a thing might be important to another person before opening your mouth to criticize and judge.

And the color was not the main issue, and I acknowledged the differences between looking at a clam from the side and from the top.

I asked for help, because the person I bought this for is more particular than me.

I'm not sure you even really read the thread before deciding this situation was "silly".

What did you actually expect when making the original post on a public forum? Honest question.

Ignoring the purchase of a WYSWYG item you do know that all of us have different brightness and contrast settings on our devices, right? Some use laptops, some use desktops, tablets, phones, and more. All will see that clam differently. I believe that is one point that @BeanAnimal making. The other part is working with the vendor before posting as you will get a variety of responses and may end up on a road to nowhere. Don't believe me go search here for the ORA Pearlberry thread with everyone asking if it is the real McCoy or not. Rather amusing to be honest.

Biota has a great reputation and responds to messages in a timely manor when contacting them via their portal. At least for me. Jake, Felicia, do amazing and always work through questions or concerns with great outcome. Again, in my experience (and I've purchased fish and corals). It doesn't mean mistakes happen but it does mean more often than not you will get your answer and be satisfied.

To me it seems it seems like a Descartes, or cart before the horse situation and could have been resolved before a post. I very well could be incorrect though and it is just my opinion. Never the less beautiful clam.

Edit: in case you are asking why my post/reply it is because I find the thread title misleading. As I read it - it leads me to believe that Biota actually sent you the wrong item and that may not be the case. While not your intent that can be taken as a bad vendor thing.

As I said before, there is no need to go round in circles here. I am not going to change my opinion and you think I am a jerk. If you are ever in the Pittsburgh area, look me up and I will buy you lunch and a beer and send you home with coral.

Pittsburgh - my son is so angry at the Pirates these season (in a fan sort of way you know). Anyway pass on the beer but that applewood bacon....

Hope your day is well.

 

[Knucker]

I have never had an issue with BIOTA before. Their customer service is great as well. I would contact them I'm sure they will be honest and help anyway they can.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I have never had an issue with BIOTA before. Their customer service is great as well. I would contact them I'm sure they will be honest and help anyway they can.

They responded above already ;)

 

[sixty_reefer]

Those who mentioned that clams look different when viewed top down are correct. Clams have unique properties causing this fascinating phenomenon:

Not saying that a error occurred somewhere, would the cluster of black dots on both sides of the outer mantle look much different from a top view?

 

[dedragon]

Not saying that a error occurred somewhere, would the cluster of black dots on both sides of the outer mantle look much different from a top view?

You cant really see the far edges of the mantle in the original picture from biota as the clam is half closed (or open i guess if ur a glass half full kinda guy)

 

[14 foot reef]

Biota has already responded in great detail, lets see if the mods will take this down and let the customer and the vendor find the solution.
Continued opinions back and forth between non involved parties may not likely help the final outcome.

Lets see if the MOD's would like to jump in here.

 

[areefer01]

Biota has already responded in great detail, lets see if the mods will take this down and let the customer and the vendor find the solution.
Continued opinions back and forth between non involved parties may not likely help the final outcome.

Lets see if the MOD's would like to jump in here.

It wasn't posted in the vendor forum thus community interaction (Home->Forums->Saltwater Invert Discussion->Clams). As you noted Biota did respond and the question should be resolved.

 

[Biota_Marine]

I hesitate to get involved, but from a different thread one thing struck me as being golden advice....

I would not purchase WYSIWYG items that are on a black background. I want to see the item, whats around it, a frag deck, anything. This screams heavily edited.

To me, this looks like the same clam, fwiw.

We actually used to put them in small sand squares for photographs for our WYSIWYG or on eggcrate but it didn't match the rest of the photos on the website and there was variability with reflections and surroundings so I purchased a few sheets of 3/16" black acrylic that we put down in our tanks, put the clams on a small frag disk to keep them propped and give them a day to open fully for photos.

 

[PharmrJohn]

That is the same clam. You just need to take a picture top down, it will look the same.

Agreed. Yours is a little more open, which will spread out the markings.

 

[Tamberav]

Not saying that a error occurred somewhere, would the cluster of black dots on both sides of the outer mantle look much different from a top view?

Can't see that side from the top view and what you can see is blurry on the left side.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Can't see that side from the top view and what you can see is blurry on the left side.

I can’t either, that’s why I’m curious on how they disappear on a top view.

 

[KrisReef]

Hi - I am not making excuses, I outright indicated that I was judging your actions given the context. I stand by that. You asked for opinions in an open conversation and I gave mine, popular or well received or not.


Yes - I read the entire thread prior to posting and stand by what I said.

As I said before, there is no need to go round in circles here. I am not going to change my opinion and you think I am a jerk. If you are ever in the Pittsburgh area, look me up and I will buy you lunch and a beer and send you home with coral.

Good luck with the clam!

Can we have an argument before I travel to Pittsburgh, or can I just drop in and score some reef stuff? (Asking for a friend.)

Hey, everyone, I'm glad we could get this sorted out and confirm it's the correct clam. We appreciate all our customers and the support for what we do.

A dear friend of mine had a coral store and when he got really amazing specimens he would post pictures on line. Immediately, someone would comment the colors were not real, etc. It's a difficult job to post pictures and send stuff in the mail that will generally fade in transportation. I feel your pain, and thanks for supplying so many different specimens for the hobby.

Those who mentioned that clams look different when viewed top down are correct. Clams have unique properties causing this fascinating phenomenon: https://shop.thebiotagroup.com/blogs/news/why-do-clams-look-different-when-viewed-from-above

Those mantles are an incredible receptor and modifier of light. I saw a wild Maxima that looked like a brilliant blue sapphire when I snorkeled by on a shallow fringing reef. I have always wanted to find one similar for sale but they are so unique I don't think I will be lucky enough to see a second one like it.

And, sadly you did make a mistake in the paragraph below? I think you scrub the shells not the mantles?

We photograph our clams from above with a DSLR and Porthole. When we receive our clams, we scrub them thoroughly with a toothbrush, so this is why some of the mantles seem very clean and white. You'll notice some of them have a bit of darker staining from normal benthic growths, but we like to get them really clean before we photograph and ship them. We shoot under 20k lighting, but we also use a handheld 10k light to get more accurate color. We do minimal editing, mainly just to remove the background.

:beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:I had to be a jerk and point out the error, not to be mean but to laugh at the difficulties of communication that I often share, and the older I get the more often I find myself

Forgetting what I was thinking about when I typed something else?

Don't tell any body, it will be our secret.

Thanks for working hard over the years to make it the best experience possible for our customers. We appreciate it

Some of Biota's words were changed but the clam looks to be the same, and I understand how important it is when I am picking up an item for a gift.

She still abuses me when she thinks I said something wrong. My advice is for young people to stay single and get a LFS to keep busy with.

Like Rodney King said, "Why cant we just get high and get along and reef a bit."

Or was that Steven King, I get confused sometime?

 

[stE26wy14]

Can we have an argument before I travel to Pittsburgh, or can I just drop in and score some reef stuff? (Asking for a friend.)

A dear friend of mine had a coral store and when he got really amazing specimens he would post pictures on line. Immediately, someone would comment the colors were not real, etc. It's a difficult job to post pictures and send stuff in the mail that will generally fade in transportation. I feel your pain, and thanks for supplying so many different specimens for the hobby.

Those mantles are an incredible receptor and modifier of light. I saw a wild Maxima that looked like a brilliant blue sapphire when I snorkeled by on a shallow fringing reef. I have always wanted to find one similar for sale but they are so unique I don't think I will be lucky enough to see a second one like it.

And, sadly you did make a mistake in the paragraph below? I think you scrub the shells not the mantles?

:beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:I had to be a jerk and point out the error, not to be mean but to laugh at the difficulties of communication that I often share, and the older I get the more often I find myself



Don't tell any body, it will be our secret.


Some of Biota's words were changed but the clam looks to be the same, and I understand how important it is when I am picking up an item for a gift.

She still abuses me when she thinks I said something wrong. My advice is for young people to stay single and get a LFS to keep busy with.

Like Rodney King said, "Why cant we just get high and get along and reef a bit."

Or was that Steven King, I get confused sometime?

your advice has been broken :(
but I do want an lfs!!!

 

[Biota_Marine]

You got me! Yes, please don't scrub the mantles :grimacing-face:

 

[DexterKarin]

Looks like the same clam to me. Your photo shows it a bit more open. Totally understand that you paid for something specific. But they are live animals too and nothing about a coral stays the same I'm learning.

 

[minus9]

I skimmed through the pages, but looking at both pics, it appears to be the same clam to me. Their pic is when that clam just arrived, so the shell is going to be nice and clean. Also, it's not quite fully open, so you can't see all of the mantle. Your clam is the same, but now it has algae on the shell and maybe the color has changed slightly, but is still pretty nice. Colors will and do shift based on several factors, so expect that going forward. My guess is that the clam was in their facility for several weeks before you bought it.

 

[CloudReefer]

Let me be clear, Biota has been nothing but absolutely fantastic in every interaction I have had with them. This thread was in no way an attempt to portray Biota negatively. Indeed, I have continued to spend my money with them and would not hesitate to recommend them to others, even if they had sent the wrong clam. In my opinion, Biota contributes more to the hobby/industry than almost any other supplier. In addition to that, their practices are helping to insure we will have healthy fish, corals, clams etc. available to us on the inevitable day that more restrictions are placed on wild-caught specimens. And finally, Biota's commitment to constantly improving their methods and learning how to breed more and more of these animals we all love so dearly (often at a financial loss, as I understand it) will likely do all of humanity a huge favor should we see further damage done to our oceans and reefs, whatever the cause. Biota isn't the only organization doing this, but they are one of the best at it. These are wonderful people, doing a wonderful job.

I posted this thread because the importance of getting the exact clam that was requested was paramount in this specific situation. I am so very grateful to everyone who took time out of their day to help me confirm I got what I had ordered. I am delighted that @Biota_Marine joined in the thread to provide some great information.

@BeanAnimal I do not think you are a jerk. I think you were acting like one. I don't know you personally, so it is impossible for me to judge you outside of our interaction in this thread.

I'm not trying to change your opinion. That still has value regardless of the attitude with which you conveyed it. I suspect you are more respectful and less dismissive in real life, as are most folks, and I also acknowledge that a lot can be lost in translation via a forum vs in-person. So I'll take you up on that beer if I'm ever in your area! First round on me. Then if you are indeed a jerk, I can test your wrestling skills, if you still have any haha. :p

@dedragon You are correct, I just can't help myself sometimes though I do try. Part of my temperament, for better or worse.

*edited to add*
@areefer You are correct. Reading this now I definitely should have worded the title differently. Apologies and thank you! I think the rest of this post addresses the other points you made. :)

----

Now, as for the clam! It's doing really well! I have attached an ok picture I took from the top. Actually surprised the pic came out as well as it did considering the surface agitation (no viewer, yet). It's from a few days ago? Maybe a week? I don't remember. The mantle is even more extended now, and the colors becoming more vibrant.

I do think it is the same clam. I only wish the advertising pictures showed the mantle fully extended.

@sixty_reefer those were my same concerns regarding those patterns. I should have taken the time to mark up the pictures so I could be specific in what I was referencing and that might have made this thread more clear. That's on me. It was a long day and I was just completely out of energy and got lazy about it.

Thank you all!

 

[KrisReef]

Beautiful!
Curious if you used something to secure it in place? It appears to be boring into the rock (just like in nature) and I've always wanted to see captive clams working down into the rocks on a tank.