Chalice pricing and LE discussion thread.

[Saltysteele]

hey! i like that! i want to reserve one of those TEC WE chalices!

 

[SaraB]

One thing I did take away from this thread is that I am not the only person that feels that there are right ways of business and wrong ways of business. Labeling a coral that is not the real deal is wrong and I appreaciate hearing others feel the same way.

+1 Mark! I can't agree with you more on this practice.:crossedlips:

 

[Mr.Firemouth]

lol, i wish it cost 40 a month to run my system....

more like a several hundred, electricty, water, and if you break down bulb replacements, media replacements, lots and lots of salt, and all the incidentals.

right now it costs me about 200 a month...when the new display is up, pretty much double that if i had to guess.

I am in this boat too, but how many people really have fish rooms. LOL

 

[Garth Schafluetzel]

my 200gal system runs easy 200+ depending on any maintnece and or water issues bulbs and its about to be even worse ill be running 2se radiums on my 125 with a de pendent to go over the center brace and then there will be 2 250's on my 75. still working on my grow out system had electrical problems that we had to be fixed but the plans r back in action

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Let em spin this another way. We can all agree that we should buy the corals that appeal to us, right? Not by name, or prestige, or whatever, but what moves us, right? I feel the same, and even will advance it by insisting on captive grown corals.

But......(you knew that was coming:wink, Lets discuss the names, and, more importantly (and one of my peeves), lineaging. What is a name, if it cant be passed on from generation to generation. And how is this name applied? What is a lineaged coral?

LE/AE all refers to this issue, but in these coral, which are asexually produced, what can be produced that will ensure it is what it is? Taxonimic names have been established based on coral structure to ID the species, but what distinguishes a "Tyree bubblegum" from a "JoeSchmoe bubblegum"?

 

[Mr.Firemouth]

Whoa! Are you kidding me? This is where people come to HYPE their corals, in hopes of driving the price up (increasing demand). Personally, I'd love to see where the price of chalices would be right now without threads like the "Chalice Show-Off Thread!!!!"

It is the same 10-15 people posting through out that thread. Of course they think each others chalices are nice and they'd pay big dollars for a TINY frag, they want their chalices to be seen as Rare/LE/AE and worth alot of money when it is time to sell, so they can get big $$$ for their TINY piece of coral too.

IMO, just because someone will pay $350 for a coral doesn't mean it's worth that much. I think it has alot to do with people's egos and alot of people that suffer from O.C.D. I'd love to see the look on most newbie's faces or know exactly what someone was thinking, when they were told someone paid $200+ for a 1/4" frag of a coral. Only the ones that were in it for the $$$ wouldn't be shocked.

Funny people use the word "Hobby" to me. Isn't "Side Business" a more appropriate term? Pay for the upkeep of tank, blah, blah, blah. Save it for someone else. How much does this hobby really cost? The answer is once your in past the initial purchase of a tank and lights, not that much. $20 for electricity, and $10-20 worth of salt/month. A fish here, a coral there.

I am going to step to the darkside here a bit....(my 2 cents worth.LOL)

Club-zoa was the first site(everyone knows), it was formed by die-hard zoa/paly junkies in the craze of the movement. The site was awesome. It had serious hobbyists sharing everything about these corals. It also began to form collectors(per se) of the rarer morphs.

Now that the site has grown, morphed, and matured into R2R, it still retains the "collectors" of the past and there is still serious hobbyists here that have some of the coolest looking corals in collection than on any other site.

So, I can see where R2R could be considered a go to site to sell something.
An example would be this thread...
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15639
I posted it for people to enjoy, frags aren't even available to me(yet,LOL), but there is 7 people who asked.(which I take as a compliment to the frag itself.) So if you wanted to frag a big colony and score some cash, this site would help you gauge the interest in what you are selling very quickly.

I like R2R and do not agree that it is a hype site. Those comments are off base, but this site is definitely a community of coral collectors and all other hobbyists included.

Costs comparisons depend on how addicted you really are to this stuff.(bigger systems cost more/have more)
I set limits, same as I do with gambling(cuz when I think I'm Hot I will let it ride till I am broke!) My limit is $200 for a coral, and it has to be something I know no one else has, so that I feel(my personal opinions) that it IS worth the price. I never break my limit for one coral.

Others I know look at coral prices and say, well it is $400 but I can make 3 frags and I can sell those and break even. This is one way for people to come to terms with spending that much money on something. I myself understand how addictions work, and finding ways to justify purchases tend to lead down dark paths. I don't need a fish tank. I want one. But not one but currently 11 soon to be 12 or 13. Last year it was 22. Only I can control how bad I want the tanks and what's in them and how much I will spend a year on them.(last year $6K) MTS(multi tank syndrome) is a disease without cure, so I just live with it.

Another bad affect of flipping corals( to just close my thoughts on the above paragraph) is that you start growing and fragging everything. I am an old school guy who has been around 25 years+ in SW and growing a coral to a show size piece was the "Ego" thing. Many people back in the day could barely succeed with corals, so to have huge, thriving pieces left people in awe of your skills. Today, FTS consists of many, many frags and super glue. How many pieces today become special, that you would NOT sell?

As far as the LE main topic of this thread goes, it is marketing. Supply and demand rule the world of cash$$$.
I have always felt if something is an LE(Limited Edition) then it needs to be limited. That means we can not just call the wholesaler and say give me 50 PPE's on my next order(if we are an LFS/vendor), or just go to the LFS and pick up another LE piece. I think once pieces become readily had thru propagation of others, it should lose the LE status and now be the norm.(even if you bought it from Tyree or ORA) Take the green polyped toadstool leather for example. Isn't that coral all over the place now?(just an example)

I don't mind the LE labeling at all, or the prices. I spend to my limits and that's all I am willing to do. I miss out on corals all the time. Wanting and getting are two very different things.

BTW, Happy New Year!LOL

 

[jmaneyapanda]

I am going to step to the darkside here a bit....(my 2 cents worth.LOL)

Club-zoa was the first site(everyone knows), it was formed by die-hard zoa/paly junkies in the craze of the movement. The site was awesome. It had serious hobbyists sharing everything about these corals. It also began to form collectors(per se) of the rarer morphs.

Now that the site has grown, morphed, and matured into R2R, it still retains the "collectors" of the past and there is still serious hobbyists here that have some of the coolest looking corals in collection than on any other site.

So, I can see where R2R could be considered a go to site to sell something.
An example would be this thread...
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15639
I posted it for people to enjoy, frags aren't even available to me(yet,LOL), but there is 7 people who asked.(which I take as a compliment to the frag itself.) So if you wanted to frag a big colony and score some cash, this site would help you gauge the interest in what you are selling very quickly.

I like R2R and do not agree that it is a hype site. Those comments are off base, but this site is definitely a community of coral collectors and all other hobbyists included.

Costs comparisons depend on how addicted you really are to this stuff.(bigger systems cost more/have more)
I set limits, same as I do with gambling(cuz when I think I'm Hot I will let it ride till I am broke!) My limit is $200 for a coral, and it has to be something I know no one else has, so that I feel(my personal opinions) that it IS worth the price. I never break my limit for one coral.

Others I know look at coral prices and say, well it is $400 but I can make 3 frags and I can sell those and break even. This is one way for people to come to terms with spending that much money on something. I myself understand how addictions work, and finding ways to justify purchases tend to lead down dark paths. I don't need a fish tank. I want one. But not one but currently 11 soon to be 12 or 13. Last year it was 22. Only I can control how bad I want the tanks and what's in them and how much I will spend a year on them.(last year $6K) MTS(multi tank syndrome) is a disease without cure, so I just live with it.

Another bad affect of flipping corals( to just close my thoughts on the above paragraph) is that you start growing and fragging everything. I am an old school guy who has been around 25 years+ in SW and growing a coral to a show size piece was the "Ego" thing. Many people back in the day could barely succeed with corals, so to have huge, thriving pieces left people in awe of your skills. Today, FTS consists of many, many frags and super glue. How many pieces today become special, that you would NOT sell?

As far as the LE main topic of this thread goes, it is marketing. Supply and demand rule the world of cash$$$.
I have always felt if something is an LE(Limited Edition) then it needs to be limited. That means we can not just call the wholesaler and say give me 50 PPE's on my next order(if we are an LFS/vendor), or just go to the LFS and pick up another LE piece. I think once pieces become readily had thru propagation of others, it should lose the LE status and now be the norm.(even if you bought it from Tyree or ORA) Take the green polyped toadstool leather for example. Isn't that coral all over the place now?(just an example)

I don't mind the LE labeling at all, or the prices. I spend to my limits and that's all I am willing to do. I miss out on corals all the time. Wanting and getting are two very different things.

BTW, Happy New Year!LOL

Well said. I am simply concerned that "As far as the LE main topic of this thread goes, it is marketing. Supply and demand rule the world of cash$$$" will translate into deception and fraud, as there is no way to confim LE status, or otherwise. It is all based on word of mouth and verbal trust. That is scary if you are basing a purchase of $5 vs. $500.

 

[reefboy]

This problem was already there even before "LE" so I will go back to my original statement trust the people you deal with or find somebody you do and only pay what you want to pay no ones forcing you to buy the coral.And getting over on folks isnt as easy as it use to be due to the good old internet a few shoddy sales or deals your name and business can be ruined does anyone remeber "Caquarium"

 

[korndogg091]

And if there so easy to come buy how come I dont have one or had anyone hit my trade thread lol I'd say there still limited.

I wasnt saying everyone has one, I am just saying more and more people have them. Its still a rare coral and was probably a bad coral to use as a example. I suppose I should of said if a LE becomes common should it still be a LE?
As far as the car example, some cars are limited that's why they hold their value. You cant frag a car and keep growing them. If there were only 5000 1969 corvettes made, you cant go and cut one up and have several new cars grow.

 

[TCK Corals]

you are comparing oranges to apple.

 

[eagleeyez5]

I love what was said about the whole addiction topic. Many times I have slipped and spent way more than I should have on a given piece. As far as the main topic goes, these corals have become the norm in most states, and it is the few gems that have great color that will hold their value. I believe the the whole name thing is getting out of hand and losing value quick. I also think that people can call their corals what ever they like, but what I do look for is a coral that is third or fourth generation in a tank, these have proven that they will survive in artificial light and synthetic salt mixes. This is the main reason I am willing to spend more on a coral {from someone I trust} that can be traced back a few tanks. I personally will not support my LFS for the fact that they sell almost exclusively wild caught or mari-cultured corals. Now if a store could honestly tell me that the coral is Aquacultured and has come from another tank, I would be more willing to purchase from them.

Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it.

 

[Ian]

I found something that bugs me more than the high prices, false advertising! I asked this seller about his 'LE' coral...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Live-Coral-ETERNITY-STEVE-TYREE-L-E-CHALICE-ECHINO_W0QQitemZ220342814906QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item220342814906&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Thinking I didn't know better, he said its been evaluated in captivity and made LE by Steve Tyree. When I informed him Steve said he hadn't even received a piece when I visited this past Saturday, he got upset and asked if I was the coral police...

I'm no coral police but I really don't like to see people sell using phony advertising...

If you plan to bid on this auction, I hope you do so because you like the coral, not because its an LE as advertised...

 

[pookstreet]

Dang it. I got phooled again :waaaht:

 

[I-K@ndY]

Ian - Certified LE police .... Glad PE is coming out lol

 

[sharkbyte1023]

Ian..go to pagee 55 in the "chalice show off " thread and you will see where reef doctor micromussa says he has been so secretive over this coral because he did not want to upset Mr. Tyree by releasing the info to early as it seems he is going to make this his next LE.

 

[I-K@ndY]

I have some coloring gems as well but don't want to upset Kenny lol

 

[Ian]

Ian..go to pagee 55 in the "chalice show off " thread and you will see where reef doctor micromussa says he has been so secretive over this coral because he did not want to upset Mr. Tyree by releasing the info to early as it seems he is going to make this his next LE.

According to Steve Tyree, he hasn't even received any of it. To my understanding, when he does, the coral will have to be evaluated from there. I just think its dirty the ebay seller said its been evaluated and made LE when Tyree hasn't even received the coral. Then he tried to dirty up Reef Doc by bringing him into it... Then, when I called his BS, he got all upset...

 

[pookstreet]

I have some coloring gems as well but don't want to upset Kenny lol

Too late. Email has been sent.

 

[I-K@ndY]

Too late. Email has been sent.

Email replied

 

[sharkbyte1023]

Well Reef Doc is the owner of the coral and you can see for yourself what he said about it. If Donovan is passing along what was told to him by the original owner i am not sure he is wrong. If Donovan was told the same info that the doc put in his post how can you call it "dirting up" someone when it is there for you to read.