Chloroquine phosphate

[nanomania]

What's the situation? Did the copper not work?

The purple tang was twitching and ignored food.

 

[aykwm]

not recommended but you can

 

[jasonrusso]

The purple tang was twitching and ignored food.

The CP should work but if there is still copper in the water you are still going to get the loss of appetite which is a side effect of copper.

 

[Blue Carbon Reefing]

Can anyone confirm if the "New Life Spectrum Ich Shield" is a way to get CP without a prescription from a VET? Also do you still dose this at 80 mg per gallon like CP or do you follow the instructions on the container which would be 1/3 the dose if I am doing the math correct?

 

[aykwm]

Can anyone confirm if the "New Life Spectrum Ich Shield" is a way to get CP without a prescription from a VET? Also do you still dose this at 80 mg per gallon like CP or do you follow the instructions on the container which would be 1/3 the dose if I am doing the math correct?

Too many variables and unknowns, usually you want a 99% pure CP at 40-60 g/gal for it to work, the powder sold doesnt specify the purity and dosage included.
If you want to use it stick to what they recommend except if contact them and get more details about cp content and quality being used. I still prefer using pure cp as you will know the source and dosage and you will be sure about the treatment.

 

[foxt]

I have been trying to get pure CP through local vets for about a month prior to starting QT (wanted to treat prophylactically), but to no avail. I did finally decide to buy the ebay stuff, thinking something is better than nothing, and after assurances from the seller that this is "99.9% pure". Since it wasn't the real stuff, I did not treat the tank while adding the fish, but decided to use it if something showed up.

I have a yellow longnose butterfly and a pyramid butterfly in a 20g long QT. They'd been in there about 9 days before showing classic signs of ich. So, armed with my ebay CP, I dosed the tank at 40mg/l. Signs of ich were gone within two days. Yesterday marked the 8th day since inital treatment. Alas, I started seeing white spots on tails and pectorals yesterday, and they're clearly in evidence today.

I could dose copper and be done with it, but I was encouraged by the response to the first dose, and am wondering if the risk/reward tilts in favor if trying it again at a higher dose.

1) can I draw any conclusions about the quality of my CP based on this experience?
2) can I redose the tank now at 60mg/l?

 

[Humblefish]

Can anyone confirm if the "New Life Spectrum Ich Shield" is a way to get CP without a prescription from a VET? Also do you still dose this at 80 mg per gallon like CP or do you follow the instructions on the container which would be 1/3 the dose if I am doing the math correct?

It's CP sourced from China without any quality control standards. I wouldn't trust it.

1) can I draw any conclusions about the quality of my CP based on this experience?
2) can I redose the tank now at 60mg/l?

How long has your QT been setup? If longer than 2-3 months it's possible a biofilm has formed in there and is biodegrading the CP.

More info: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/qt-and-biofilm.292878/

 

[aykwm]

I have been trying to get pure CP through local vets for about a month prior to starting QT (wanted to treat prophylactically), but to no avail. I did finally decide to buy the ebay stuff, thinking something is better than nothing, and after assurances from the seller that this is "99.9% pure". Since it wasn't the real stuff, I did not treat the tank while adding the fish, but decided to use it if something showed up.

I have a yellow longnose butterfly and a pyramid butterfly in a 20g long QT. They'd been in there about 9 days before showing classic signs of ich. So, armed with my ebay CP, I dosed the tank at 40mg/l. Signs of ich were gone within two days. Yesterday marked the 8th day since inital treatment. Alas, I started seeing white spots on tails and pectorals yesterday, and they're clearly in evidence today.

I could dose copper and be done with it, but I was encouraged by the response to the first dose, and am wondering if the risk/reward tilts in favor if trying it again at a higher dose.

1) can I draw any conclusions about the quality of my CP based on this experience?
2) can I redose the tank now at 60mg/l?

I recommend doing partial water change and start copper treatment.
If CP was pure and effective you will not see the spots appear again, they probably disappeared as ich progresses through their life cycle, usually the case when using "reef safe ich medication" which gives you a false sense of it working.

 

[foxt]

How long has your QT been setup? If longer than 2-3 months it's possible a biofilm has formed in there and is biodegrading the CP.

Interesting about the biofilm. QT has been running about 7 weeks. I am inclined to try a second round of this CP dosed at 60mg/gal before I break the QT down, or try copper. What do you think?

 

[foxt]

I recommend doing partial water change and start copper treatment.
If CP was pure and effective you will not see the spots appear again, they probably disappeared as ich progresses through their life cycle, usually the case when using "reef safe ich medication" which gives you a false sense of it working.

I was wondering about that. But I dosed the CP the first day I saw spots, and they were gone essentially the next day - is that typical reaction to CP?

 

[aykwm]

If you are not sure about CP 100% then I advise you to go the copper route (assuming you don't have copper sensitive fish) at least with copper you have test kits to ensure you are within the therapeutical levels.

Also CP will biodegrade if exposed to light (in powder form not dissolved) and some say it might biodegrade under uv light in water if the tank lights emit uv spectrum. So make sure you are storing the powder CP in dark and cool place.

I never heard of ich completing its life cycle that fast within 24 hours, usually even if the parasite is killed or have dropped, its marks (the white spots) will stay for few days after that until they heal up.

 

[foxt]

I never heard of ich completing its life cycle that fast within 24 hours, usually even if the parasite is killed or have dropped, its marks (the white spots) will stay for few days after that until they heal up.

Fair point - I shouldn't have said "gone essentially the next day" - there was dramatic improvement the next day, and it was apparent that the CP had done something.

I have given up hope of sourcing pharma CP locally. Perhaps the law will change, and vets will be able to prescribe CP over the internet some day. In the meantime, my choices are TTM, copper, or the CP I can get on ebay. Since the initial results were promising at 40mg/gal I can accept the risk I am taking on having this fail again. If it does, I'll have to decide between TTM and copper next time.

 

[Humblefish]

Interesting about the biofilm. QT has been running about 7 weeks. I am inclined to try a second round of this CP dosed at 60mg/gal before I break the QT down, or try copper. What do you think?

Honestly, I have zero confidence in the ebay CP. I've seen too many hits & misses with it. So, you could be breaking down your QT and starting over for nothing. I think copper is your best option at this point.

 

[foxt]

Thanks for the response. The fish are in such good shape (aside from the ich), that I went ahead and dosed the tank with 60mg/gal this morning, and will see how it goes. This whole cycle took about a week, and the fish tolerated it very well, so I'll spend the 7-10 days watching/waiting, and if it fails again this time, I'll move to copper or TTM.

CP is just that much more attractive, and since I don't see any pharma-grade stuff on my horizon any time soon, I really want this to work. But I get it - it's suspect, so we'll see.

 

[Blue Carbon Reefing]

It's CP sourced from China without any quality control standards. I wouldn't trust it.

Thank you Humblefish, I was worried what I was using was not effective. I will revert to copper. Do you recommend Cupramine? I have two fish to get out of the DT before I can begin my Fallow period. They are not falling for my fish traps. I am trying the lights off for a few days to get them nice and hungry and try the traps again. Breaking down my tank is not possible (400 Gallon, 96X30X30) all the rocks are glued together. Any other suggestions to catch the last two fish (1 Chromis and 1 Yellow Coris Wrasse)

 

[Humblefish]

Do you recommend Cupramine?

I personally prefer Coppersafe. It has a wider therapeutic range (1.5 - 2.0 ppm) and IME is gentler on fish than ionic copper (Cupramine). You'll also need an API copper test kit to use with Coppersafe.

 

[Humblefish]

Just a little Easter egg for the thread: You can use a spectrophotometer to test CP concentration in the water. This might come in handy for those using suspect product.

Only problem is it will run you anywhere from 3-10k: https://www.hach.com/spectrophotometers/family?productCategoryId=35547203832

 

[jasonrusso]

I am also in the group that cannot obtain a prescription for CP so I had to get it from National Fish Pharmaceuticals.

It is fustrating when I still read "get it from a vet or don't use it." Why is it that someone who has a source for pharmaceutical grade CP hasn't shared that with the group?

 

[Humblefish]

Why is it that someone who has a source for pharmaceutical grade CP hasn't shared that with the group?

Because technically it is illegal to sell CP without a Rx. At least in the US, where it is regulated by the FDA and subject to DEA compliance.

 

[jasonrusso]

Because technically it is illegal to sell CP without a Rx. At least in the US, where it is regulated by the FDA and subject to DEA compliance.

I understand that. I said a source, like which veterinarians are people using?

However, I would think that the DEA has bigger fish to fry (see what I did there) than arresting people sharing medications trying to cure ornamental fish.