Cyano Problem – Zero Nitrate, Low Phosphate

[flight82]

Hi everyone,
My saltwater tank has been running since June this year. At the moment, I only have fish in the system, but I’d really like to start adding corals. Unfortunately, I’m dealing with a persistent cyanobacteria issue that I haven’t been able to resolve.

My current water parameters are:

• Nitrate: 0 ppm
• Phosphate: 0.02 ppm

To try and raise nitrate, I’ve significantly increased feeding for over a month now, but I haven’t seen any change in nitrate levels. I also have chaetomorpha in the sump, which I’ve stopped lighting to reduce nutrient export.

My questions:

• Could the cyano be caused by zero nitrate and low phosphate?
• Would it make sense to dose nitrate or even ammonia to increase nitrate?
• If I manage to raise nitrate, could that help reduce or eliminate the cyano?

I’m still learning and trying to stabilize the tank before moving on to corals, so any advice or shared experiences would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

 

[cdemoss01]

My guess is low parameters..
@tbrown can you help here?

 

[tbrown]

Yes. Absolutely the imbalance of nutrients can cause it.

I dose Ammonium.

 

[CHSUB]

I see fish and algae, so basically toss your hobby test kit results because they are worthless. If you want less nuisance algae start by removing it….it’s that simple! After that, maintenance and CUC will maintain a clean nuisance algae free aquarium until you fill it up with corals. Then you can, maybe, start worrying about nutrients but that is a long way off.

 

[flight82]

I see fish and algae, so basically toss your hobby test kit results because they are worthless. If you want less nuisance algae start by removing it….it’s that simple! After that, maintenance and CUC will maintain a clean nuisance algae free aquarium until you fill it up with corals. Then you can, maybe, start worrying about nutrients but that is a long way off.

@CHSUB I'm sorry to read your response, which comes across as rather critical. Beginners are here to learn, and constructive feedback is always appreciated.

If you zoom in on the image, you'll clearly see that I'm not dealing with algae, but with red and green cyanobacteria, with many trapped air bubbles.

Before posting the thread, I ran tests using both Hanna checkers and Nyos colorimetric kits, with fresh reagents. Both gave me consistent results, so I find it unlikely that two separate tests would be faulty.
Also, besides the fish, I already have a clean-up crew in place:

• 2 Mespilia globulus (tuxedo urchins)
• 2 turbo snails
• 2 Nassarius snails
• 3 Strombus luhuanus
• 2 Lysmata shrimps

The only areas they avoid are exactly where the cyanobacteria are growing.

I also tried adding a couple of corals, but unfortunately they were smothered by the cyano. So I believe it's better to solve the cyano issue first before introducing more animals and risking further losses — or am I wrong?

 

[flight82]

Yes. Absolutely the imbalance of nutrients can cause it.

I dose Ammonium.

@tbrown Thanks a lot for your input! I really appreciate your help.

I actually found these two guides on Reef2Reef and I’ll be following them to start dosing ammonia:

• DIY Ammonia Dosing for Low Nitrate Systems
• DIY Ammonia Dosing Chart

Hopefully, this will help me restore the nutrient balance and deal with the cyano more effectively.

If you have any other suggestions or tips beyond these guides, they’re more than welcome!

 

[Euphyllia97]

@CHSUB I'm sorry to read your response, which comes across as rather critical. Beginners are here to learn, and constructive feedback is always appreciated.

If you zoom in on the image, you'll clearly see that I'm not dealing with algae, but with red and green cyanobacteria, with many trapped air bubbles.

Before posting the thread, I ran tests using both Hanna checkers and Nyos colorimetric kits, with fresh reagents. Both gave me consistent results, so I find it unlikely that two separate tests would be faulty.
Also, besides the fish, I already have a clean-up crew in place:

• 2 Mespilia globulus (tuxedo urchins)
• 2 turbo snails
• 2 Nassarius snails
• 3 Strombus luhuanus
• 2 Lysmata shrimps

The only areas they avoid are exactly where the cyanobacteria are growing.

I also tried adding a couple of corals, but unfortunately they were smothered by the cyano. So I believe it's better to solve the cyano issue first before introducing more animals and risking further losses — or am I wrong?

You are definitely right! And in my opinion CHSUB’s answer is a bit strange and not helpful at all. Especially with a newer tank and starting your reefing journey, your test results will be very important to determine your next actions and required husbandry. The reason for your cyano outbreak is most probably due to the lack of nutrients/balance in nutrients, which you correctly identified already.

I would suggest to manually remove as much as you can and start dosing some nitrates (as extra feeding is not doing the trick for you). Once you get the hang of it, try switching to ammonium dosing as apparently that would be more beneficial to your ecosystem compares to dosing nitrates . Good luck!

 

[flight82]

@Euphyllia97
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and helpful reply — I really appreciate it!

I’ll follow your advice and proceed with manually removing the cyano. I’ll start by dosing nitrates and then gradually switch to ammonium as things begin to stabilize.

Thanks again for your support!

 

[tbrown]

@tbrown Thanks a lot for your input! I really appreciate your help.

I actually found these two guides on Reef2Reef and I’ll be following them to start dosing ammonia:

• DIY Ammonia Dosing for Low Nitrate Systems
• DIY Ammonia Dosing Chart

Hopefully, this will help me restore the nutrient balance and deal with the cyano more effectively.

If you have any other suggestions or tips beyond these guides, they’re more than welcome!

I suck it up with a turkey baster.

Also, blow off the rocks frequently and then dose Calcium Carbonate (I use 1-2 tsp in my 70). I like to add around 5-10 mL of Microbacter7 when I "snow" the tank.

 

[tbrown]

Also, I should add - the Calcium Carbonate is a powder. I add it to about a cup to a cup and a half of water and stir real good to get it suspended and dump it in the tank in a high flow area so it gets dispersed throughout the tank quickly. It will turn your tank to white out conditions for an hour or so.

This is after a half an hour or so.

 

[BryanM]

Hi everyone,
My saltwater tank has been running since June this year. At the moment, I only have fish in the system, but I’d really like to start adding corals. Unfortunately, I’m dealing with a persistent cyanobacteria issue that I haven’t been able to resolve.

My current water parameters are:

• Nitrate: 0 ppm
• Phosphate: 0.02 ppm

To try and raise nitrate, I’ve significantly increased feeding for over a month now, but I haven’t seen any change in nitrate levels. I also have chaetomorpha in the sump, which I’ve stopped lighting to reduce nutrient export.

My questions:

• Could the cyano be caused by zero nitrate and low phosphate?
• Would it make sense to dose nitrate or even ammonia to increase nitrate?
• If I manage to raise nitrate, could that help reduce or eliminate the cyano?

I’m still learning and trying to stabilize the tank before moving on to corals, so any advice or shared experiences would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

for what its worth I never had luck increasing feedings to increase nutrients.

 

[CHSUB]

@CHSUB I'm sorry to read your response, which comes across as rather critical. Beginners are here to learn, and constructive feedback is always appreciated.

If you zoom in on the image, you'll clearly see that I'm not dealing with algae, but with red and green cyanobacteria, with many trapped air bubbles.

Before posting the thread, I ran tests using both Hanna checkers and Nyos colorimetric kits, with fresh reagents. Both gave me consistent results, so I find it unlikely that two separate tests would be faulty.
Also, besides the fish, I already have a clean-up crew in place:

• 2 Mespilia globulus (tuxedo urchins)
• 2 turbo snails
• 2 Nassarius snails
• 3 Strombus luhuanus
• 2 Lysmata shrimps

The only areas they avoid are exactly where the cyanobacteria are growing.

I also tried adding a couple of corals, but unfortunately they were smothered by the cyano. So I believe it's better to solve the cyano issue first before introducing more animals and risking further losses — or am I wrong?

My response is far from critical. It is to the point and exactly the correct course of action. If you want to get very technical, sure Cyanobacteria is somewhere in the middle of algae and bacteria with characteristics of both. However, we are not phycologists trying to classify exactly where to place them on some chart. We are hobbyist trying to control their growth. If you want to follow advice the includes playing with nutrients based on inaccurate, low resolution hobby test kits that is your choice. It’s not that the kits are faulty, they lack resolution required to report levels that your eyes can tell you….you don’t have a nutrient deficiency problem.

Blow the stuff off and remove it, that is all that is required. Get some soft corals and start the reef going. Many soft corals are easier to keep than fish and you seem to have that figured out.
Clean the back wall and force your CUC to get their food from places that aren’t easy to clean. I would use a canister filter for a couple of hours to remove all kinds of crud. You can get one for about $50 on Amazon and any time you have a nuisance “algae” problem use it…

 

[CHSUB]

You are definitely right! And in my opinion CHSUB’s answer is a bit strange and not helpful at all. Especially with a newer tank and starting your reefing journey, your test results will be very important to determine your next actions and required husbandry. The reason for your cyano outbreak is most probably due to the lack of nutrients/balance in nutrients, which you correctly identified already.

I would suggest to manually remove as much as you can and start dosing some nitrates (as extra feeding is not doing the trick for you). Once you get the hang of it, try switching to ammonium dosing as apparently that would be more beneficial to your ecosystem compares to dosing nitrates . Good luck!

I highlighted the passage you should have not included in your response. You can give your advice without including me in your discussion.

 

[Euphyllia97]

I highlighted the passage you should have not included in your response. You can give your advice without including me in your discussion.

I can refer to your comment if I don’t agree with it :) Apologies if you feel like it was an offense to you

 

[CHSUB]

I can refer to your comment if I don’t agree with it :) Apologies if you feel like it was an offense to you

I will agree, it is a public forum and if I don’t want to be referred to I could just stay off. I don’t refer to posts i don’t agree with, I just give my “take”; I think it is a good policy. Nothing here online could offend me….

Regarding your advice, yes it is wrong. His back wall in complete covered with hair algae and he has multiple fish pooping and whatever. That stuff doesn’t, will not ever grow without abundant available nutrients. You can follow the current hobby mythology you learned from Joe Blow with some nice corals. Similar to how you can refer to me on a public forum, however, imo both are wrong.

 

[Euphyllia97]

I will agree, it is a public forum and if I don’t want to be referred to I could just stay off. I don’t refer to posts i don’t agree with, I just give my “take”; I think it is a good policy. Nothing here online could offend me….

Regarding your advice, yes it is wrong. His back wall in complete covered with hair algae and he has multiple fish pooping and whatever. That stuff doesn’t, will not ever grow without abundant available nutrients. You can follow the current hobby mythology you learned from Joe Blow with some nice corals. Similar to how you can refer to me on a public forum, however, imo both are wrong.

I agree, that there are available nutrients and that 0 nitrates says nothing about the available nutrients. I do however believe that manual removal of the cyano and GHA together with getting nutrients back in a balanced ratio will help him to get this under control. I just don’t agree with your statement that testing the nitrates/phosphates is worthless. Even though accuracy of these tests can be discussed, at least it can give you an indication of what is going on.

 

[dvgyfresh]

Don’t throw away tests kits as others have mentioned lol , instead fiigure out why the cyano is present ( unstable nutrients, low oxygenation, low flow) cyano loves that so maybe increase flow, get nitrate / phosphate in a good range , and go from there

 

[W31Olds]

CHSUB, I curious what else you would suggest for GHA and a very tiny bit of cyano. My GHA doesn't seem to relent and I'm using manual removal with a cannister filter as you suggested. My Algae CUC is 2 urchins and about 10 snails ( they don't do much) and big tangs (hippo, wt brisltetooth, Purple) and a Foxface (large) and a Lawmower Blenny (Large).

 

[CHSUB]

I just don’t agree with your statement that testing the nitrates/phosphates is worthless

Yes that was a misunderstanding. I test often sometimes daily because I both enjoy doing it and seeing the results. Also reduces my snacking…I was implying to use your eyes vs test kit results as a path to improvement.

 

[Euphyllia97]

Yes that was a misunderstanding. I test often sometimes daily because I both enjoy doing it and seeing the results. Also reduces my snacking…I was implying to use your eyes vs test kit results as a path to improvement.

Well, that is an advice I can only agree with. :)