DC Controllable Pumps vs AC Pumps

[d2mini]

Ugh, ok someone just tell me which pump to get! LOL!

 

[gcarroll]

So....

I just got a Jebao DCP 18000 in today and hooked it up.

The watts drawn are NOT dropped at all one bit vs the high head pressure against it OR it's 29.5' head hight rating is laughing at me.

I'll have to look at this again tomorrow but wanted to put this in front of other eyes. @gcarroll I think will be interested in this.

Controller can increase in 1% increments from 30% to 100% and will then report what the watts are being pushed to the pump. To me this is happening: The controller is, well, controlling the output and has no input from the pump on what kind of pressure its getting. This may be a good thing for high head applications but not good for those trying to conserve electricity.

Yep, like I have said, these flow meters are going to make people rethink flow. It's cool to see that hobbyists can now see exactly how much flow they are getting. You took it to the next level and also revealed the dirty little secret where these pumps continue to pull full power despite head height. Some may say they expected this, so doing the test with an AC pump will really enlighten them. I know you want to test using a SP6, But I would love to see you perform the test using a power hog like the Mag 18 or Mag24. That would open some eyes!

 

[Brew12]

Ugh, ok someone just tell me which pump to get! LOL!

Whichever one makes you happy.

Out of curiosity, have you tried actually running 1200gpm through your sump to see what it sounds like? You may not like it....

I use a 55g tank as a sump which is narrow so flow noise is worse. I run around 6oogpm and have thought about dialing it back. Fortunately, I have an adjustable baffle to divert some flow under the first overflow which really helps with the noise.

 

[jason2459]

Yep, like I have said, these flow meters are going to make people rethink flow. It's cool to see that hobbyists can now see exactly how much flow they are getting. You took it to the next level and also revealed the dirty little secret where these pumps continue to pull full power despite head height. Some may say they expected this, so doing the test with an AC pump will really enlighten them. I know you want to test using a SP6, But I would love to see you perform the test using a power hog like the Mag 18 or Mag24. That would open some eyes!

I don't have the flow but I do have the power draw and air numbers with the same 684 Mazzei Venturi used with the DCP 18000.

With the same amount of air pull of ~12scfh the DCP18000 was pulling 36watts from the wall. The Mag18 was pulling 71.18 watts. So, it all depends on how you want to compare this.

The Mag18 is rated for around 150watts but it's watts used dropped dramatically under pressure. Where as the DCP18000 pushed to 100% was pulling 100% of it's rated watts. The controller was flashing between 129-130 watts being delivered to the pump.


Mag18 as return pump w/ ~12' head height
Max head height:16.85'
Watts: rated 150watts actual: 71.18watts
Flow: rated 1500gph@0 head actual: ~750gph@12' head pressure (bucket test)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mag18 with MVX stock 684 mazzei venturi
Air draw: ~12 scfh
Max head height:16.85'
Watts: rated 150watts actual: 62-63watts
Skimmate produced: ~3 cups dry/day high side

Mag18 with 784 mazzei
Air draw: ~14scf
Max head height: 16.85'
Watts: rated 150watts actual: 65-66watts
Skimmate produced: ~3 cups dryish/day low side

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 11 w/ 684 mazzei
Air draw: ~24scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 147wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~5.5 cups dry/day

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 11 w/ 784 mazzei
Air draw: ~26scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 150wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~6 cups dry/day

So far the list of pumps I'll be testing through 2" pipe flow meter will be
Mag18 w/ 16.85' head height max rated
Waveline DC12000 Apex Ready version 22.96'
Jebao DCP 15000 22.96'
Jebao DCP 18000 29.5'

And what ever pump I may get between now and then.

 

[Brew12]

You took it to the next level and also revealed the dirty little secret where these pumps continue to pull full power despite head height. Some may say they expected this, so doing the test with an AC pump will really enlighten them.

It is all based on this for AC pumps.

Centrifugal Pump Water horse power= Q x H x S.G./3960, where Q = flow, H = head, S.G. = Specific gravity.

With DC pumps, power is determined by the controller.

 

[d2mini]

Whichever one makes you happy.

Out of curiosity, have you tried actually running 1200gpm through your sump to see what it sounds like? You may not like it....

I use a 55g tank as a sump which is narrow so flow noise is worse. I run around 6oogpm and have thought about dialing it back. Fortunately, I have an adjustable baffle to divert some flow under the first overflow which really helps with the noise.

My sump was actually designed with higher flow in mind. There is a ramp that catches the flow from the fuge and it can be adjusted a bit.
I'm not really trying to get 1200 gph but would like to be closer to 1000gph than I am now.
And if I was able to reach 1200 gph and then be able to back off a bit rather than running at 100% that would nice.
Running the vectra at 100% is putting out some heat.

 

[jason2459]

Ugh, ok someone just tell me which pump to get! LOL!

This one should do.

 

[Brew12]

This one should do.

Do you think that will be quieter than the Sicce I posted above?

 

[gcarroll]

It is all based on this for AC pumps.

Centrifugal Pump Water horse power= Q x H x S.G./3960, where Q = flow, H = head, S.G. = Specific gravity.

With DC pumps, power is determined by the controller.

Unfortunately, the average Joe doesn't understand anything other than the number printed on the box!

 

[Brew12]

Unfortunately, the average Joe doesn't understand anything other than the number printed on the box!

And most of them don't even understand that!

 

[gcarroll]

d2mini,

The Mag 18 might just be too small to overcome the challenge. That Jebao DCP 18000 does more flow than my Abyzz A200. Or does it?

Mag18 w/ 16.85' head height max rated, 1800 gph
Waveline DC12000 Apex Ready version 22.96', 3170 gph
Jebao DCP 15000 22.96', 3962 gph
Jebao DCP 18000 29.5', 4900 gph

 

[jason2459]

Sorry, Dennis I kind of cluttered up your thread in my excitement in AC vs. DC pump wattage pulling and being able to test flow and coming soon head height.

 

[Brew12]

"IF" you have 15' of head loss as your Vectra pump implies, these are the expected max flow rates for these pumps.

Mag18 w/ 16.85' head height max rated, 1800 gph

575ghp

Waveline DC12000 Apex Ready version 22.96', 3170 gph

1450gph (I'm impressed!) -EDIT: 525gph... much less impressive.

Jebao DCP 15000 22.96', 3962 gph

Can't find the curve.

Jebao DCP 18000 29.5', 4900 gph

1900gph



Edit: The A200? Looks like it would clock in at roughly 2200gph.

 

[jason2459]

"IF" you have 15' of head loss as your Vectra pump implies, these are the expected max flow rates for these pumps.

575ghp


1450gph (I'm impressed!)


Can't find the curve.


1900gph



Edit: The A200? Looks like it would clock in at roughly 2200gph.

Yep, the A200 was the first pump I suggested but was poo pooed

 

[Fudsey]

So what's the difference between the Jebao DCP pump and the DC or DCT pumps?

 

[ksed]

If you are looking for quietness Fluval is the way to go. That is if it will work on 15 ft.
Otherwise the Sicce Brew posted works very well.
The is no need to use a DC pump unless you want to run it at reduced flow.
As Greg mentioned this could be an eye opener.

 

[jason2459]

So what's the difference between the Jebao DCP pump and the DC or DCT pumps?

The DCT has a very basic controller with 10 speeds and not as much head height rating and pulls some more watts.

The DCP changed to a sine wave, has 1% increments in speed starting at 30%, the controller will also show you how many watts are being sent to the pump, pulls a little lower watts and has higher head height ratings

 

[d2mini]

Yep, the A200 was the first pump I suggested but was poo pooed

LOL! Not poo-pooed. Just way out of my price range. If I had unlimited funds, then it's no brainer.

 

[d2mini]

1450gph (I'm impressed!)

When I look at the waveline 12000 flow chart i'm only seeing about half that amount at 4.5 meters.

 

[Brew12]

When I look at the waveline 12000 flow chart i'm only seeing about half that amount at 4.5 meters.

Good catch!!! I'm going to hang my head in shame... You are correct. For some reason I was thinking roughly 3 feet per meter but then looked at the 3 meter mark instead of the 5 meter mark.