Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?
- Thread starter mcarroll
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Thank you. Mine look alot like Prorocentrum but they are clear in color not green. Maybe it was because I had the lights off for a couple days maybe thats why. I will try to get a better sample once it grows again.
Hello all, just checking in on this thread again, because my dinos made a comeback when my PO4 and NO3 bottomed out (again) when life got busy (kids) and I wasn't able to check regularly. Anyway, this time around, I'm dosing both PO4 (seachem phosphorous) and NO3 (seachem nitrogen), but the dinos seems to be more stubborn. I had coolia before, but have not ID'ed the latest outbreak.
So my question, is using seachem nitrogen ok? It's the easiest thing to get, and I'm intimidated by mixing a concoction of stump remover.
Also, would running a 10 micron sock in the drain be effective? Do dino cells float to the top where it goes into the overflow?
Do dino toxins bother zoas? Or is something else ticking them off?
BTW, I found this old post from 2015, seems like this member had the right idea as this thread...
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dino-x-working-in-reverse.206274/#post-2364315
Thanks for reading!
So my question, is using seachem nitrogen ok? It's the easiest thing to get, and I'm intimidated by mixing a concoction of stump remover.
Also, would running a 10 micron sock in the drain be effective? Do dino cells float to the top where it goes into the overflow?
Do dino toxins bother zoas? Or is something else ticking them off?
BTW, I found this old post from 2015, seems like this member had the right idea as this thread...
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dino-x-working-in-reverse.206274/#post-2364315
Thanks for reading!
tonymacc
Active Member
Quick update, my no3 is between 8 and 12ppm on the redsea test, not really one or the other so somewhere in between, po4 is up to .08. yesterday no3 was 8ppm and po4 .04, maybe tomorrow I may hit 10 and .1, we shall see and maybe my microscope will arrive.
Good read though read similar before. Always wondered why these predators were not cultivated by the hobbiest or aquarium industry.Hello all, just checking in on this thread again, because my dinos made a comeback when my PO4 and NO3 bottomed out (again) when life got busy (kids) and I wasn't able to check regularly. Anyway, this time around, I'm dosing both PO4 (seachem phosphorous) and NO3 (seachem nitrogen), but the dinos seems to be more stubborn. I had coolia before, but have not ID'ed the latest outbreak.
So my question, is using seachem nitrogen ok? It's the easiest thing to get, and I'm intimidated by mixing a concoction of stump remover.
Also, would running a 10 micron sock in the drain be effective? Do dino cells float to the top where it goes into the overflow?
Do dino toxins bother zoas? Or is something else ******* them off?
BTW, I found this old post from 2015, seems like this member had the right idea as this thread...
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dino-x-working-in-reverse.206274/#post-2364315
Thanks for reading!
lesbrers
Community Member
So how high is too high in terms of NO3 and PO4 levels? Going back to an earlier post, I have gone from undetectable levels to really overshooting my targets. I haven't dosed anything in about 2 weeks now and today NO3 is 25 ppm and PO4 is roughly 0.3 ppm (calculated from a Hanna ULR phosphorous reader). I can't quite figure out why the levels continue to rise without manual dosing when previously my tank was essentially starved of nutrients. Dino still persists, however it is slowly getting better. I am keeping up with manual siphoning using a 10 micron sock so I think that is also helping. I wouldn't be that concerned with the numbers except it seems some coral are doing very poorly which I feel is due to the extremely elevated PO4 levels. What is also confusing is the fact that even with these high values, I don't have a ton of appreciable algae growth. There's some fuzz on the back walls but thats about it. From my understanding, the goal is to get some algae growth and increase biodiversity to outcompete the dino and strike up a better balance in the tank. I'm trying to figure out if I have some other kind of limiting factor to getting some algae in the tank, or if I just need to give it more time. I've tried the wait and see approach, however coral health continues to decline. Would it be advisable to consider a bit of GFO to get that PO4 more around 0.1 ppm or am I just asking for trouble? Advice appreciated.
An ideal range to me is around 5ppm nitrate and 0.1 phosphate.
0.1 is considered the higher range of the acceptable level in reef keeping. Yes I know - this is different in what we are re doing here.
If be careful adding gfo at this stage unless values continue to exceptionally rise. If concerned check feeding amounts but the source of phosphate and nitrate could be the result of die off.
Phosphate increase will limit calcification. The water may have a lower PH value. Worth checking this. If it is low raise it with kalk which will drive off co2 and precipitate po4. Aim for pH of 8.5/6
Conincidentally some dinos don't like higher alkalinity. So could strike it lucky there as well.
You mention fuzz.. Interesting. Have you tested for ammonia recently....
Any eggy smell.....unaccounted snails?
I had an issue with a reactor that had blocked and wasn't moving water through (biopellet). I was unaware of this over the week until following week maintenance. I turned plugs off as I did regular whilst cleaning sump and water changes. When I turned them back on the blockage partially cleared and dumped sulphur snelling water in to tank. Needless to say it wiped out most life.... I had to catch fish which were litterally (I kid you not) jumping into my hands to get them out. In to better water. Thankfully I had the dirty (now much cleaner water) from change to put them in to.
Upside.... I didn't have algae of any sort for getting on four months.
I'd run a few water tests I think the issueis unlikely to be nutrient related more likely something else in water. Wouldnt normally recommend a water change but if in doubt do it in this instance. Get a good portion of carbon run in if not already. This is a must with dino hunting.
lesbrers
Community Member
Ammonia is 0. My pH varies around 8.3 - 8.5. I dose 2 part. Alk is 8.8. Ca is 410 (a little low). I do run a carbon reactor but nothing else. I don't think it's related to feeding as I feed the same amount now as I did when my tank bottomed out on NO3 and PO4 in November. That was when I got the dino bloom. Around that time I did have a big snail die off. Lost about 80% of my snails in about a week, so I suspect it had something to do with the dino toxins killing them off. Surprisingly all other inverts including sand sifting sea stars, shrimps, crabs are fine. All fish during this whole period with dino are fine and just going about their usual business.
Could it be this big die off that happened in November still feeding the elevated NO3 and PO4 numbers? That would be strange since when I started manual dosing in December my NO3 and PO4 were at 0 and this was already maybe a few weeks after all the snails died. I also didn't really go crazy with the dosing either. I used Brightwell Neophos and followed instructions. Got PO4 up to 0.1 and stopped. Then the levels just continued to rise and rise.
Also this is what I mean by fuzz. I think it is algae as you can see the snail (one of the few remaining) eating it.
Could it be this big die off that happened in November still feeding the elevated NO3 and PO4 numbers? That would be strange since when I started manual dosing in December my NO3 and PO4 were at 0 and this was already maybe a few weeks after all the snails died. I also didn't really go crazy with the dosing either. I used Brightwell Neophos and followed instructions. Got PO4 up to 0.1 and stopped. Then the levels just continued to rise and rise.
Also this is what I mean by fuzz. I think it is algae as you can see the snail (one of the few remaining) eating it.
Bret Brinkmann
Well-Known Member
From what you described afterwards, it sounds like you didn't beat 5+ strains in 24 hours. You basically performed an elaborate personal attack on them over the course of one and a half months with a tank nuke in the middle.... I hate these things too, I would have done the same.
Ammonia is 0. My pH varies around 8.3 - 8.5. I dose 2 part. Alk is 8.8. Ca is 410 (a little low). I do run a carbon reactor but nothing else. I don't think it's related to feeding as I feed the same amount now as I did when my tank bottomed out on NO3 and PO4 in November. That was when I got the dino bloom. Around that time I did have a big snail die off. Lost about 80% of my snails in about a week, so I suspect it had something to do with the dino toxins killing them off. Surprisingly all other inverts including sand sifting sea stars, shrimps, crabs are fine. All fish during this whole period with dino are fine and just going about their usual business.
Could it be this big die off that happened in November still feeding the elevated NO3 and PO4 numbers? That would be strange since when I started manual dosing in December my NO3 and PO4 were at 0 and this was already maybe a few weeks after all the snails died. I also didn't really go crazy with the dosing either. I used Brightwell Neophos and followed instructions. Got PO4 up to 0.1 and stopped. Then the levels just continued to rise and rise.
Also this is what I mean by fuzz. I think it is algae as you can see the snail (one of the few remaining) eating it.
It sounds like the dinos started dying off a while ago after some of your snails died from the toxins. Both of which will add nutrients. The further increase in nutrients increases the dino death and adds even more to the nutrients. I believe this is why people are running skimmers and socks. To help get the nutrient sources out of the water, i.e. dead dinos and snails. I recommend skimming if you have one, add a sock which will probably need to be emptied multiple times a day until the dinos (dead and alive) get filtered out for the most part, and run GAC to take out the dino toxins so your CUC can get back to work and stop dying.
BTW, I found this old post from 2015, seems like this member had the right idea as this thread...
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dino-x-working-in-reverse.206274/#post-2364315
Thanks for reading!
I wonder why he recommends to STOP skimming, but most people in this thread say to...
Hi All,
Recently I have lost quite a few snails and now a couple acros are experiencing STN. I did notice some small bubbles on my rock (only on rock) with the dreaded snot look coming off of them. Fun part, I finally had enough reason to get a scope. Bad part, sure look like Dino's to me. That being said, I am definitely not an expert at this stuff, so looking for help with an ID and then open to suggestions for treatment ideas. I have a new RSR 350 waiting to get wet and want to do my best to keep dino's from becoming a problem in that tank as I transfer stuff over (no hurry for the transfer). Interesting thing to note was that I hadn't seen any sign of Dino's until I moved my current tank across the room (drained water, slid the tank on pads, filled it...15 min max). Nitrates I finally got to 2 (red sea and salifert), but have a tough time keeping them above 0. Hanna shows 0 on ULR. Tank has quite a bit of red turf algae (sucks) and a couple small spots where cyano forms once in a while (mainly in overflow). I attached some pics I took with the scope. I have seen some swim in the "tethered circle", but those seem to stop moving very quickly on the slide. Then the others (rounder) seem to swim very freely and don't slow down for quite a while. Guessing I am dealing with more than one type. I can upload videos or more pics if needed. Any input is welcomed!
Thanks,
Kevin
Recently I have lost quite a few snails and now a couple acros are experiencing STN. I did notice some small bubbles on my rock (only on rock) with the dreaded snot look coming off of them. Fun part, I finally had enough reason to get a scope. Bad part, sure look like Dino's to me. That being said, I am definitely not an expert at this stuff, so looking for help with an ID and then open to suggestions for treatment ideas. I have a new RSR 350 waiting to get wet and want to do my best to keep dino's from becoming a problem in that tank as I transfer stuff over (no hurry for the transfer). Interesting thing to note was that I hadn't seen any sign of Dino's until I moved my current tank across the room (drained water, slid the tank on pads, filled it...15 min max). Nitrates I finally got to 2 (red sea and salifert), but have a tough time keeping them above 0. Hanna shows 0 on ULR. Tank has quite a bit of red turf algae (sucks) and a couple small spots where cyano forms once in a while (mainly in overflow). I attached some pics I took with the scope. I have seen some swim in the "tethered circle", but those seem to stop moving very quickly on the slide. Then the others (rounder) seem to swim very freely and don't slow down for quite a while. Guessing I am dealing with more than one type. I can upload videos or more pics if needed. Any input is welcomed!
Thanks,
Kevin
Hi All,
Recently I have lost quite a few snails and now a couple acros are experiencing STN. I did notice some small bubbles on my rock (only on rock) with the dreaded snot look coming off of them. Fun part, I finally had enough reason to get a scope. Bad part, sure look like Dino's to me. That being said, I am definitely not an expert at this stuff, so looking for help with an ID and then open to suggestions for treatment ideas. I have a new RSR 350 waiting to get wet and want to do my best to keep dino's from becoming a problem in that tank as I transfer stuff over (no hurry for the transfer). Interesting thing to note was that I hadn't seen any sign of Dino's until I moved my current tank across the room (drained water, slid the tank on pads, filled it...15 min max). Nitrates I finally got to 2 (red sea and salifert), but have a tough time keeping them above 0. Hanna shows 0 on ULR. Tank has quite a bit of red turf algae (sucks) and a couple small spots where cyano forms once in a while (mainly in overflow). I attached some pics I took with the scope. I have seen some swim in the "tethered circle", but those seem to stop moving very quickly on the slide. Then the others (rounder) seem to swim very freely and don't slow down for quite a while. Guessing I am dealing with more than one type. I can upload videos or more pics if needed. Any input is welcomed!
Thanks,
Kevin
Ostreopsis Ovata.
Give away signs for others is the almond shape. Snotty mucas it makes and tell tale signs of snails dying.
It responds well to UV as enters the water column at night.
Syphon out during maintenance.
Follow guidelines on thread and read up first page sticky.
Possibly Prorocentrum but cannot be 100%. I'd ask. Taricha personally.Having a hard time id’ing these. Any help appreciated. In tank they are more like a tan orange jelly 1/4” thick. 40/400/1000x
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