Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

reeferfoxx

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Thank you! I have a refugium that is really good at stripping nutrients and I have been struggling to try to get it fine tuned. I have been running it 12 hours on 12 off opposite of the DT. I was thinking about cutting it back some but don't want to upset the algae. not sure what the best route would be? I also haven't been rinsing my food so I think that is why my Po4 has been all over the place.
I don't see rinsing your food as being the fix for this. If you are feeding coral, you could cut back on that. Or add a fish or two to see if you can get your nitrates up. The fuge is ment to keep nutrients in check, but if nutruents are going too low, I don't see the reason to run a fuge. Unless you have mandarins or dragonets and need the pod population.
 

DesertReefBoy

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I don't see rinsing your food as being the fix for this. If you are feeding coral, you could cut back on that. Or add a fish or two to see if you can get your nitrates up. The fuge is ment to keep nutrients in check, but if nutruents are going too low, I don't see the reason to run a fuge. Unless you have mandarins or dragonets and need the pod population.
I could definitely add a few more fish. I was thinking of adding a yellow tang and some kind of wrasse to help with eating pests. I also have plans of adding both a mandarin and dragonet. My tank is setup to run triton so the fuge is my main nutrient export just like water changes are other peoples. I’m thinking about cutting down the time the refugium is lit. I just don’t want to cut it back to far to the algae starts to die off.
 

reeferfoxx

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@OpenOcean33

Here some pics. If you cant tell, I haven't tended to this tank in weeks lol

IMG_20181206_184712~2.jpg

This red planet is the reason i removed the toadstool leather. I had a frag going on two years without growth. Removed the leather and now its taking off. Things that make you go, hmmm....
IMG_20181206_184722~2.jpg
 

reeferfoxx

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I could definitely add a few more fish. I was thinking of adding a yellow tang and some kind of wrasse to help with eating pests. I also have plans of adding both a mandarin and dragonet. My tank is setup to run triton so the fuge is my main nutrient export just like water changes are other peoples. I’m thinking about cutting down the time the refugium is lit. I just don’t want to cut it back to far to the algae starts to die off.
Personally, i think it would fine to run the fuge, its just you'll have to pay extra attention to nutrients while in the processes of "eliminating" the dino presence.
 

pharazon

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Hello!

Would like to confirm ID on these as Ostreopsis? Thankfully the tank is not overrun (yet) but trying to put together an attack plan before it gets to that point. They mostly manifest on the glass, on my Flipper Cleaner, and in the sand as tiny hair like threads. No bubbles whatsoever.

Yes, my nutrients are super low as confirmed by ATI ICP analysis:
NO3: 0.01 (didn’t even think this was possible while feeding the tank daily)
PO4: 0.02

I have ordered sodium nitrate to start dosing, and also have a bottle of NeoPhos on hand in case phosphates start to crash.

I get film algae build up on the glass very quickly, but very little macro algae in the tank. No fuge, no skimmer, and haven’t done a WC in two weeks. The only filtration I have is GAC.

Appreciate y’all!

E1AB9C51-3FE1-4057-AE8E-10F2420C1616.jpeg


212B1DEF-84E4-4552-9EB0-D0F3E88267F9.jpeg
 

Dj City

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Question...

Can Ozone help with this dreaded dino problem?
I have a sulfur denitrator online and it's just starting to do it's job of keeping my nitrates where I want them although i'm still dialing it in.
I have my Pentar UV Sterilizer running from the DT to the sump gravity fed
I dose Phosphate when needed

Can Ozone help?
 

reeferfoxx

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Hello!

Would like to confirm ID on these as Ostreopsis? Thankfully the tank is not overrun (yet) but trying to put together an attack plan before it gets to that point. They mostly manifest on the glass, on my Flipper Cleaner, and in the sand as tiny hair like threads. No bubbles whatsoever.

Yes, my nutrients are super low as confirmed by ATI ICP analysis:
NO3: 0.01 (didn’t even think this was possible while feeding the tank daily)
PO4: 0.02

I have ordered sodium nitrate to start dosing, and also have a bottle of NeoPhos on hand in case phosphates start to crash.

I get film algae build up on the glass very quickly, but very little macro algae in the tank. No fuge, no skimmer, and haven’t done a WC in two weeks. The only filtration I have is GAC.

Appreciate y’all!

E1AB9C51-3FE1-4057-AE8E-10F2420C1616.jpeg


212B1DEF-84E4-4552-9EB0-D0F3E88267F9.jpeg

Also, here is a short video of them. Please excuse my poor microscopemanship.

https://imgur.com/a/ccFrPHz
Yep. Ostreopsis.

Increase nutrients and look into UV. UV is pretty effective with ostre.
 

reeferfoxx

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Question...

Can Ozone help with this dreaded dino problem?
I have a sulfur denitrator online and it's just starting to do it's job of keeping my nitrates where I want them although i'm still dialing it in.
I have my Pentar UV Sterilizer running from the DT to the sump gravity fed
I dose Phosphate when needed

Can Ozone help?
Ozone can sometimes be too effective. I would hold off.
 

reeferfoxx

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Too effective?
How so?
Its been discussed here before. Up at the search bar, type ozone and then make sure the 'This thread only' had been marked. That will search for that keyword within this thread.
 

Dj City

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I've read a lot on Ozone and from what I have gathered it's.....
Inconclusive.

How do you kill something that lives on primarily on the sandbed?
It's easier when the dinos are in the water column but I can't figure out what to do for the dinos on the sandbed.
 

Dj City

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I might get the Ozone generator anyway.
It can't hurt.

Oh...

It can but if used properly it should be beneficial to the tank even if it does nothing for the dinos.
 

Dj City

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I wonder if taking out fish, corals and inverts while making some kind of diy SUPER Ozone reactor that is placed in the display on the sandbed with MASSIVE flow would work.
I think it would but it's pretty impractical.

From R.H.F.
How much ozone, and for how long, is required to kill suspended organisms in seawater? In one study of a suspended dinoflagellate algae (Amphidinium sp. isolated from Australia's Great Barrier Reef), it was found that 5-11 ppm ozone for six hours of exposure was required to kill 99.99% of the organisms.37 While that kill rate is impressive, that exposure is far higher than is ever achieved in a reef aquarium application. Lower doses and shorter contact times had smaller effects. A dose of 2 ppm and a short contact time (with the time not stated in the paper) showed a reduction in bacteria of abut 98% (which is still quite significant, but would not be referred to as disinfection).

Similar results were found for the spores of the bacterium Bacillus subtilis.38 In this case, doses of 14 ppm ozone for 24 hours were required to kill 99.99 percent of the spores. In another study 99.9% of fecal coliforms, fecal streptococci and total coliforms were killed with 10 ppm ozone and a contact time of 10 minutes.39 The exposure of Vibrio species and Fusarium solani (bacteria that are pathogenic to shrimp) to 3 ppm ozone for five minutes killed 99.9% of the bacteria.40 Water from a seawater swimming pool was effectively sterilized using 0.5-1.0 ppm ozone in a contact tower.41

The data for the disinfection of freshwater systems are much more extensive, and so include more data at lower contact times and concentrations. In one experiment at a Rainbow trout hatchery, the addition of 1-1.3 ppm of ozone with a contact time of 35 seconds reduced heterotrophic bacteria in the aquarium water itself by about 40-90%.42

Does the ozone used in a typical reef aquarium application reduce bacteria? Maybe, but certainly not to the extent required for disinfection. Still, a reduction of 50% of the living bacteria could have significant effects. The above study in the trout hatchery showed that the use of ozone at several times the typical reef aquarium rate and for about five to ten times the typical contact time results in such a drop. While the data are unavailable, I expect that the bacteria in the water exiting a normal reef aquarium's ozone application are not decreased by as much as 50%.

It seem reasonable to conclude from such literature studies that most bacteria that enter the ozone reaction chamber in a typical reef aquarium application will not be killed by ozone or its byproducts. If killing bacteria in the water column is a goal, then a UV (ultraviolet) sterilizer may be more useful.
 

reeferfoxx

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fish, corals and inverts
You can try it but any new coral additions will risk more dinos. Really the concept is shifting nutrient consumption away from dinos. This is something relatively easy to do. We can spend $$$$ on all the neatest tech to help us but its a biological thing that doesnt cost that much. Create a shift to dinos or green algae and then go through the process of elimination.
 

Dj City

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The other idea is using some kind of SUPER diy UV sterilizer that can be used on the sandbed.
The idea here is similar to lights over our tanks that point down and illuminate the tank. Something with a covered top that directs the UV light DOWN only. This light would shine VERY STRONG UV light directly on the dinos and kill them.

I'm thinking so far outside the box because I just don't see a way to kill these buggers.
Who knows, maybe someone can take my ideas and run with them to build something up to the task.
 

Dj City

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You can try it but any new coral additions will risk more dinos. Really the concept is shifting nutrient consumption away from dinos. This is something relatively easy to do. We can spend $$$$ on all the neatest tech to help us but its a biological thing that doesnt cost that much. Create a shift to dinos or green algae and then go through the process of elimination.

Believe me...
I've TRIED!!!
 

reeferfoxx

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I'm thinking so far outside the box because I just don't see a way to kill these buggers.
Honestly, you are going to give yourself a headache thinking about this. If you want a show quality tank, try the KISS method, accept the ugly stages, and let nature do what it needs to do.
 

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