Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[mwilk19]

It interesting that people are seeing success with UV's when ive been running one for the past couple of months and within the last 2 weeks I had an awful Dino explosion. there must me more to the solution than just UV. I need to get my P&N elevated i guess.

Also when i speak of my issues with the LFS store they are clueless. When i speak of raising my N&P to battle this demon dino they scratch their heads...They look at me like im crazy and tell me I've never heard of anybody trying to raise the N&P nor do they even know how to raise them. I told them about stump remover and Seachmen Flourish Phospate and they went cross-eyed...

The UV is only effective with certain dinos. There are over 2000 different strains so it depends on what you have. Many people in the hobby have no clue what to do about dinos. About a month ago I asked an online retailer who was doing a live Q&A what his solution was for dinos. He said do a Google search. To be honest, I've been in the hobby since the late 80's and had never experienced a dino attack until October of last year. I would guess it was brought on by trying to run a ULNS. I'm now dosing to keep my nutrient levels up.

 

[taricha]

I have a 24w UV on my 65g tank. The UV is in the DT and is only 2-3 months old. I installed the UV originally to get rid of the green algae when no dino's were even present. It wasnt for a month or so later the dino reared their ugly heads.

I will send a pic of the tank later today. but the algae is long and stringy with air bubbles accumulating later in the day after the lights have been on for 5+ hours.

Ok, you have enough power on UV, and it sounds like it's a kind of dino that ought to be affected by it - strings generally means it goes into water column. I can think of 4 options.
1) UV stopped working (I've had brand new UV not work.)
2) Or environmental conditions causing dinos not to enter water in substantial numbers - shorten daylight hours, and blast surfaces at night to get more cells into water
3) It's the kind of dino that doesn't go into water - need scope pic to see
4) It's a clever impostor and not a dino at all - tank pics might help, scope pics too

I'm not convinced that UV completely eradicates dinos but I don't have the guts to turn it off to find out.

It doesn't. Guaranteed some cyst cells remain in the tank somewhere. That's why gotta get nutrients and tank ecosystem healthy too.

It interesting that people are seeing success with UV's when ive been running one for the past couple of months and within the last 2 weeks I had an awful Dino explosion. there must me more to the solution than just UV. I need to get my P&N elevated i guess.

The way I see it, all important parts. Neutralize toxins, Kill/remove cells, and fix nutrients. They all seem crucial to me, but your issue is that what's supposed to be removing/killing your dino cells isn't.

 

[The new fish on the block]

Can I get an ID?

 

[Cscultho]

Ok, you have enough power on UV, and it sounds like it's a kind of dino that ought to be affected by it - strings generally means it goes into water column. I can think of 4 options.
1) UV stopped working (I've had brand new UV not work.)
2) Or environmental conditions causing dinos not to enter water in substantial numbers - shorten daylight hours, and blast surfaces at night to get more cells into water
3) It's the kind of dino that doesn't go into water - need scope pic to see
4) It's a clever impostor and not a dino at all - tank pics might help, scope pics too


It doesn't. Guaranteed some cyst cells remain in the tank somewhere. That's why gotta get nutrients and tank ecosystem healthy too.


The way I see it, all important parts. Neutralize toxins, Kill/remove cells, and fix nutrients. They all seem crucial to me, but your issue is that what's supposed to be removing/killing your dino cells isn't.

I found something very interesting and disturbing at the same time. I was topping off my ATO and i happened to measure the water with my hand held TDS meter and found the TDS to off the charts 176! This was in my ATO. So i tested the water coming out of my RO/DI system right at the outlet and it measured ZERO TDS?? Ok so my source water seems good but for some reason my ATO is 176 so i decided to get rid of the bad water and start filling up my 5 gallon HOME DEPOT bucket to replenish the bad ATO water. As the Home Depot buck was slightly filled i measured the TDS and it was 15!!! I just measured my source water as it exited the DI and it is ZERO????? I switched buckets to my old RED SEA SALT bucket that measure around 15 TDS!!!! what the heck?? I decided to fill a small plasitc cup half way full and it measured ZERO TDS????!! I filled part of my 45gallon Rubber Maid trash can and 10 TDS??

My RO/DI water is ZERO as it comes out the tubes from the system but immediately shoots up when it hits the buckets???!! For the exception of the small plastic cup which read ZERO.

Has anybody else experience this? Does anybody do a reading of their water in their containers before it goes into their tanks??

I need to find a new container to mix my water in because i think the plastic is causing a spike in TDS?!

This is probably the big source of my misery as well!!!

 

[Cscultho]

I found something very interesting and disturbing at the same time. I was topping off my ATO and i happened to measure the water with my hand held TDS meter and found the TDS to off the charts 176! This was in my ATO. So i tested the water coming out of my RO/DI system right at the outlet and it measured ZERO TDS?? Ok so my source water seems good but for some reason my ATO is 176 so i decided to get rid of the bad water and start filling up my 5 gallon HOME DEPOT bucket to replenish the bad ATO water. As the Home Depot buck was slightly filled i measured the TDS and it was 15!!! I just measured my source water as it exited the DI and it is ZERO????? I switched buckets to my old RED SEA SALT bucket that measure around 15 TDS!!!! what the heck?? I decided to fill a small plasitc cup half way full and it measured ZERO TDS????!! I filled part of my 45gallon Rubber Maid trash can and 10 TDS??

My RO/DI water is ZERO as it comes out the tubes from the system but immediately shoots up when it hits the buckets???!! For the exception of the small plastic cup which read ZERO.

Has anybody else experience this? Does anybody do a reading of their water in their containers before it goes into their tanks??

I need to find a new container to mix my water in because i think the plastic is causing a spike in TDS?!

This is probably the big source of my misery as well!!!

To expand some, my RO/DI system is only 5 months old and Ive only processed maybe 200g total of water it. I replaced the DI resin this past Sunday as a prevenative measure but no other filters have been replaced.

 

[taricha]

Can I get an ID?

of what? no pic.

 

[The new fish on the block]

of what? no pic.

oops sorry

 

[taricha]

oops sorry

Ostreopsis - everyone's favorite sesame seed shaped whirling toxic demon spawn. [emoji2]

 

[jason2459]

I found something very interesting and disturbing at the same time. I was topping off my ATO and i happened to measure the water with my hand held TDS meter and found the TDS to off the charts 176! This was in my ATO. So i tested the water coming out of my RO/DI system right at the outlet and it measured ZERO TDS?? Ok so my source water seems good but for some reason my ATO is 176 so i decided to get rid of the bad water and start filling up my 5 gallon HOME DEPOT bucket to replenish the bad ATO water. As the Home Depot buck was slightly filled i measured the TDS and it was 15!!! I just measured my source water as it exited the DI and it is ZERO????? I switched buckets to my old RED SEA SALT bucket that measure around 15 TDS!!!! what the heck?? I decided to fill a small plasitc cup half way full and it measured ZERO TDS????!! I filled part of my 45gallon Rubber Maid trash can and 10 TDS??

My RO/DI water is ZERO as it comes out the tubes from the system but immediately shoots up when it hits the buckets???!! For the exception of the small plastic cup which read ZERO.

Has anybody else experience this? Does anybody do a reading of their water in their containers before it goes into their tanks??

I need to find a new container to mix my water in because i think the plastic is causing a spike in TDS?!

This is probably the big source of my misery as well!!!

I would not be concerned what the TDS in a stored container if the water from the RODI system was reading 0.

 

[Cscultho]

I would not be concerned what the TDS in a stored container if the water from the RODI system was reading 0.

That's interesting? I'm not sure I understand? Isn't the idea to add water to our tanks with 0 TDS to prevent algae or am I wrong? If we pickup high amounts of TDS and the water has absorbed them isn't that just as bad as TDS coming straight from you RO/DI?

 

[The new fish on the block]

Ostreopsis - everyone's favorite sesame seed shaped whirling toxic demon spawn. [emoji2]

Whelp that sucks. thanks

 

[jason2459]

That's interesting? I'm not sure I understand? Isn't the idea to add water to our tanks with 0 TDS to prevent algae or am I wrong? If we pickup high amounts of TDS and the water has absorbed them isn't that just as bad as TDS coming straight from you RO/DI?

The idea of a reading of 0 TDS from the RODI is to help reduce unwanted elements from the TAP. These elements could be known like in my case I have high copper levels. In some cases unknown until some boil order comes out. Just ask Flint Michigan.

TDS is not an indicator of water quality or what is in the water. Some people can go years with just using tap water and a dechlorinator. A TDS of 1 could be lethal where as a TDS of 100 could be perfectly safe.

Once put in a container though water that has been deionized will strongly bond with anything. Over time that TDS will increase in any container.

And again, TDS does not indicate at all what is in it or the quality of the water. And a TDS reading of 0 is just that. A reading below the limits of detection of the measuring device. I will bet it is not ever 0 with our filtration systems.

 

[mcarroll]

N & P are still reading close to ZERO. I think i need to start doubling up on my dosing to increase N&P....

+1

Unfortunately i do not have a microscope...i do need to invest in on.

Selecting a microscope – start with the $12 toy scope I bought there...completely functional

And the price is so low you can get started immediatly (order tonight) without sweating the details.....and you won't have spent any significant money so you won't feel bad if/when you want to buy a real scope later! (And you'll have all the experience from the toy scope to back up your next purchase.)

In addition to dosing N&P i have been feeding heavy my 4 fish.

Ease back into normal feeding – this doesn't help things. If you really want to increase your feedings anyway, do it very slowly. The idea would be NOT TO spike the nutrients that way.

(Really we're correcting nutrient levels with N and P dosing, not raising them overall.)

I feel the main items that have contributed to my success is the UV and the fresh live sand / rock.

I think the rest helped too. But what were your N and P like at the time? What are they like now?

When i speak of raising my N&P to battle this demon dino they scratch their heads...

If you look at "that other thread" and use that as a standard for "where the hobby was" look at how little time has passed between then and now.....even if most of the research is old, this is pretty leading edge stuff in terms of the hobby!

Whelp that sucks. thanks

Not the end of the world though! Skip back to post #1...do a little reading on those links...do some testing and post your tank's nitrate and phosphate history. If you're carbon dosing or doing anything else special to reduce nutrients – stop.

Don't forget to post your N and P test results!

 

[Paullawr]

So do we have any correlation i.e. Graphs now between N P and microalga/protist reduction.

Posting results is one thing but would actually be better to post accumulative. Broader picture is obviously better than than singular and quickly forgotten posts

 

[Paullawr]

Ostreopsis - everyone's favorite sesame seed shaped whirling toxic demon spawn. [emoji2]

Wonderful critters, now where did I put the kalkwasser.

 

[mcarroll]

So do we have any correlation i.e. Graphs now between N P and microalga/protist reduction.

Posting results is one thing but would actually be better to post accumulative. Broader picture is obviously better than than singular and quickly forgotten posts

I think we'd need someone out there actually counting dino cells to know that level of detail, wouldn't we? I might not understand the info you're looking for tho.

 

[Paullawr]

I think we'd need someone out there actually counting dino cells to know that level of detail, wouldn't we? I might not understand the info you're looking for tho.

Whilst cell counts would go unmatched i.e. Per ml. It would be nice to see N P values over time vs visible cell reduction. Give people something to actually shoot for.

The problem with many of these accounts is that people go off do their thing solve the issue (or don't) and then you don't hear further on how their successes or failures went.
When you do it's usually a 'I did this and now look'.

Still wishful thinking perhaps.

 

[Cscultho]

@mcarroll the battle continues as i have began doubling the N&P dosing. Have the UV back up and running. Still have the long whispy stringy devil hair on the sand and rock but i am now starting to notice for the first time in a couple weeks green algae accumulating on the glass..Maybe the beginning of a break through? Also notice burried in my sand bed red algae which looks like cyno but not certain. picture is below.

 

[Lowefx]

In the last 2 weeks, I also have noticed a lot of glass algae too. Not sure why, but comes off the glass easily. Maybe it's another small cycle or maybe my lights are changing spectrums.

 

[Cscultho]

In the last 2 weeks, I also have noticed a lot of glass algae too. Not sure why, but comes off the glass easily. Maybe it's another small cycle or maybe my lights are changing spectrums.

how do your dinos look?