Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[mcarroll]

Nitrate and Phosphate are both zero

I should also note that this outbreak occurred after treating the tank with fluconozole for bryopsis and Hair algae

This isn't unheard of. If you already have a thread where you've posted details of your scenario, can you link it here?

In a nutshell, correcting the short-term nutrient situation is the first thing to do.

i'm in the early stages of both using uv and getting more control over my nutrients which i'm certain have been lower than ideal. my question is will uv even have an effect on these or is this going to be a war strictly won via elevated nitrate and phosphate?

Corrected N and P levels are definitely your "primary fixes" and in some cases the results have begun to show up in 24-48 hours. In more resistant blooms, using additional methods like UV has definitely been helpful to speed things along though.

@taricha will know more on the particulars for that dino as to how effective UV should be!

 

[The new fish on the block]

This isn't unheard of. If you already have a thread where you've posted details of your scenario, can you link it here?

In a nutshell, correcting the short-term nutrient situation is the first thing to do.



Corrected N and P levels are definitely your "primary fixes" and in some cases the results have begun to show up in 24-48 hours. In more resistant blooms, using additional methods like UV has definitely been helpful to speed things along though.

@taricha will know more on the particulars for that dino as to how effective UV should be!

So do i need to raise the Phosphates and nitrates?

 

[taricha]

Yes, for prorocentrum uv is effective. (for others following here's @landlubber pics that this ID is based on https://www.flickr.com/photos/157226770@N03/ )

For me uv did work at reduced cell #s on prorocentrum, reducing to maybe 1/100th of original. I think I have before and after pics in this thread earlier. I'll find the post # later.
It took a little encouragement along with the UV - reduced daylight length, blasting surfaces, and after a few days of that and the cells being mostly gone, then a 48hr lights out to push even more into the water.

The overall effect was that there were very very few prorocentrum left. Still not as effective as vs ostreopsis (couldn't find a single cell of those) but uv did its job.

Cell removal is only part of the plan though, so take care with nutrients, and be cautious about toxins (whether you've seen die off or not).

 

[mcarroll]

So do i need to raise the Phosphates and nitrates?

That's right!!

Same as for most of the other folks along the way in the thread (read plenty of their comments if you haven't already), I'd start by targeting these numbers:

PO4: ≥ 0.10 ppm
NO3: ≥ 5-10 ppm

 

[The new fish on the block]

Ok thank you

 

[The new fish on the block]

Im seeing that i should use Seachem Phosphorus for Phosphate . But Im not seeing what to use for nitrates.

 

[taricha]

For me uv did work at reduced cell #s on prorocentrum, reducing to maybe 1/100th of original. I think I have before and after pics in this thread earlier. I'll find the post # later.
It took a little encouragement along with the UV - reduced daylight length, blasting surfaces, and after a few days of that and the cells being mostly gone, then a 48hr lights out to push even more into the water.

Check my posts #166 and #218 in this thread for the before/after I was talking about. Prorocentrum, ostreopsis, and 2 other species.

Edit:

Im seeing that i should use Seachem Phosphorus for Phosphate . But Im not seeing what to use for nitrates.

KNO3 (spectracide stump remover)

 

[The new fish on the block]

Check my posts #166 and #218 in this thread for the before/after I was talking about. Prorocentrum, ostreopsis, and 2 other species.

Edit:


KNO3 (spectracide stump remover)

Thank you

 

[landlubber]

Yes, for prorocentrum uv is effective. (for others following here's @landlubber pics that this ID is based on https://www.flickr.com/photos/157226770@N03/ )
Cell removal is only part of the plan though, so take care with nutrients, and be cautious about toxins (whether you've seen die off or not).

yes i've definitely been running activated carbon during this and normally i do keep good nutrient levels but it seemed once the dinos showed up they exhausted my nutrients at an accelerated rate driving them down too quickly.
can't wait to see this start improving.
thanks @taricha and @mcarroll

 

[mcarroll]

Im seeing that i should use Seachem Phosphorus for Phosphate . But Im not seeing what to use for nitrates.

Seachem also makes Flourish Nitrogen.

The DIY option @taricha mentioned is popular as well!

This might help if you choose the DIY option:
A Nitrate Dosing Calculator For Better Tank Health (And Better Coral Color!)

 

[Paullawr]

I bought potassium nitrate and sodium phosphate then mixed in two empty triton containers. 500grams of each filled with RO.

Use a sterile medicine syringe and a couple of ml a day and monitor. That's about as scientific as it gets. Cheap that way and ordered all off that famous auction site.

My tank looks like a seaweed farm, but leaving it do its thing now. I'm in no rush to replace anything. Just leting it run like this with GHA filtering the water and using allelopathy to keep micro algae etc at bay.

 

[GHsaltie]

Okay @mcarroll I finally got my nitrate kit and the readings came out at 10ppm. So should I try and raise phosphates?

 

[mcarroll]

@GHsaltie Now I can't find your P test results.....but if they were zero or near-zero, then yes now it's time to raise your PO4 up to ≥ 0.10 ppm.

Did you get Ca Mg and alkalinity straightened out and stabilized, BTW?

 

[GHsaltie]

Phosphates are undetectable, I saw the post farther up about seachem phosphorus I'm going to find some of that and give it a whirl. And no I haven't gotten my other parameters worked out yet. I tested last teusday and they are at Ca 400, Mg 1080, Alk 5.3. My alk has never been that low before and I don't know why it is. I've got some water ready for a water change but I don't know what else I can do to make it better without shocking the system. Why is my tank so messed up argh!

 

[Paullawr]

Just a thought - Sure your salinity/sg reading is correct? For mg and alk to be that low I'd check that first with another instrument or at your lfs.
Mg hardly ever decreases so unless you have been using some weird salt mix....

 

[GHsaltie]

I have double triple checked my refractometer and the readings are correct. I don't have another instrument to check it with and I don't really want to toss out another 40 bucks for a second refractometer. I only have two LFS and they both use hydrometers. I use IO reef crystals, I have thought about trying a different salt but I am reluctant to make any major changes until I get things under control more.

 

[Paullawr]

To be honest don't read in to the whole sudden change thing being bad. Let's face it.....things right now are pretty crap, right? Bring up the levels and do it. Crap changes in the sea as well at the drop of a hat and life goes on. Get the salts straight and sort it.

Oh and outside of this algae no3 po4 stability, the best way of knocking back the stuff you have swarming in your tank was sudden change. So don't sweat it,

I've made massive sudden changes and life goes on.

Your levels are out of whack as you know. Only way I could get my levels like that is to incorrectly dose salts, salt mix being wrong or your measurements being screwy.

Still as I say fix it then deal with what you need to.

 

[mwilk19]

To be honest don't read in to the whole sudden change thing being bad. Let's face it.....things right now are pretty crap, right? Bring up the levels and do it. Crap changes in the sea as well at the drop of a hat and life goes on. Get the salts straight and sort it.

Oh and outside of this algae no3 po4 stability, the best way of knocking back the stuff you have swarming in your tank was sudden change. So don't sweat it,

I've made massive sudden changes and life goes on.

Your levels are out of whack as you know. Only way I could get my levels like that is to incorrectly dose salts, salt mix being wrong or your measurements being screwy.

Still as I say fix it then deal with what you need to.

The only thing I'd be very careful of is ALK. A sudden rise in ALK will cause your SPS to RTN . Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. If you don't have any SPS then maybe not as critical.

 

[Paullawr]

Yes that is very true.

No do as you plan and raise it slowly. Everything has got used to those levels I guess.

 

[rockstarta78]

So after about couple of months, I have done a big water change over the weekend. Before the water change I did a major scrubbing inside the tank. A lot, I mean a LOT of cr@p came out. Syphoned out the sand bed as well, lowered lighting period a week ago. It's been over 48 hours and tank still looks lot better then before. I did however slack off on dosing NO3 and PO4 this weekend. I will check the numbers tonight and see where I stand after the water change. Last week NO3 shot up to 25ppm so I backed off. I am sure, the water change has significantly lowered that number. So I may have to start dosing tonight. Currently only running skimmer, Carbon and dosing Kalk. Trying to keep the system stupidly simple (KISS).

I am seeing GHA in lot of places. It's just at the beginning stages. Cyano is also gone from the scrubbing and haven't noticed any returning yet. Dino is still present on the sand bad but with a subdued coloring. Hoping they are dying soon. They are still on the frag rack tho, so we shall see I guess. oh before I forget, I think I am seeing Bryopsis (thought I killed it with fluco couple of month ago, guess not). SO the battle continues. We'll see in a week how things look, but this is the first time in about 6 months I am cautiously optimistic. There's light at the end of the tunnel, or it's a speeding training. Only time will tell.