Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

ScottB

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I am certainly seeing ostreopsis. Hopefully that is all as it is relatively easy to kill off. If @taricha gives a like to my post, then I guessed correctly and you can do this in order of importance:

1) Get a UV running. One watt per 3 gallons running into and out of the display not the sump. Seriously. Run at as slow as the manufacturer allows (maybe 300 gph)
2) Obtain nitrate and phosphate dosing solutions. Thousands of options. Brightwell makes premixed to stay simple but expensive. Dose to achieve at least 10 and .1 for nitrates and phosphates. Red Sea test kits for nitrates; Hanna ULR Phosphates
3) Clamp or suction cup onto your glass a bunch of filter floss into high flow and high light areas of the tank. Rinse every evening. You can export A LOT of dinos this way.
4) Run a bunch of GAC (granular activated carbon) as ostreos generate a fair amount of toxins that kill inverts and coral.
5) Shut down anything that removes nutrient from the water. I keep skimmer running but very dry. Socks are ok.
6) Baste your corals/rock/anything to get the dinos into the water to be killed by UV or otherwise exported.

Good luck. You have lots of good company and you came to the right place.
 
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Shaun_in_Cali

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Team -

quick question about a UV steriliser. I installed one to help me combat dinos (included with nutrient dosing, skimmer changes, change to light schedule). The dinos have cleared (hooray) however I am wondering about the UV.

I'm generally a 'if it aint broke, don't fix it' kind of guy. At the moment my tank isn't broke, indeed I'm very pleased with it, fish are healthy, coral is growing - so I don't really want to change. However I am wondering if now that my nutrients are better if it could be beneficial to remove the UV steriliser? would this benefit microfauna/flora throughout the tank that may be being killed by the UV at present?

Regards,

Shaun
 

taricha

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There are a few organisms that might be desirable that would do better without UV, but really not as many as you'd think - skimming basically already wipes out planktonic life cycle stuff in our systems.

But there may be other reasons to want to phase out UV (temp, less equipment). Start by running only at night, then some time later can reduce to every other night then go down in frequency. If you run for a while at 1 night a week and no resurgence of anything, you may be OK to take it out altogether, at that point.
 
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daftwazzock

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I have a small 11w UV sterilizer on my 350 but I'm pretty sure it's not enough for my early dino infestation, would plumbing a 55w or larger unit directly to my return line be a good idea or are UV sterilizers separate from the return typically?
 

ScottB

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I have a small 11w UV sterilizer on my 350 but I'm pretty sure it's not enough for my early dino infestation, would plumbing a 55w or larger unit directly to my return line be a good idea or are UV sterilizers separate from the return typically?
A couple of suggestions for you from prior pages of this thread.
Size: 1 watt per three gallons is enough
Flow: as slow as the manufacturer recommends to maximize contact time
Location: you are going to hate this advice but you need to run it in/out of the display until you win this battle

Later on, you can install the UV however & wherever you desire. Some run them inline, but most run it off a pump or manifold so that they can adjust contact time with the UV to suit the pest they are after.
 
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Mary Carmen

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Hi all,
I have a 3 year old Coralife 29 g biocube (with stock LED lights) doing well except for some type of algae that I think it might be dinos. First let me describe the system and then the nuisance.
The 3 chambers of biocube have:
1. Heater and skimmer
2. Refugium filled with chaeto and tones of copes. I use one of those lights used to grow plants indoors ( it gives a redish bluish light)
3. Just the return pump.

Here is a picture of the tank:
962C213A-9836-4D15-99A1-73CDB351F9D7.jpeg


Corals and fish were doing fine until a couple of days ago when I saw a brown stringy algae on some branches of the sea whip. The rest of the corals and fish are ok. The algae growing in the seawhip is the same thing that is been growing on my sand. The reason I think it is Dinos is because the nuisance growing on the sand almost disappears at night, to come back in the afternoon. Also, I have tried fluconazol and did nothing.
Here are some pictures:
1.
17F413D8-9D66-4EAF-A4AE-FAACBFF89A73.jpeg

(The brown dots and the green string)
2.
FF65E93F-4D42-46C4-9AF3-864C43C7B236.jpeg

(more of the same, same grain of sand)
3.
32E90A3B-28A9-4581-9FBA-B7FB70AD8098.jpeg

(not sure what this is but is also has the brown dots. They don’t move)

4.
C8076107-9DEE-49F1-A9B1-803F565B1F96.jpeg

(not sure what the pink thing is, but more og those brown dots)
As for maintenance: I do 5 gallon water changes every week or 2 using Imagitarium pacific ocean water.
Here are the results of last weeks tests:
Salinity 1.026
Am 0
Nitrates 10 ppm
Ph 8.2
Alk 8
Phosphates 0
Calcium 470
Mag 1290.
I sometimes hand supplement trace elements but not often. (Kent brand)
Sorry for the long post and thank you for your time.
Mary

@taricha and anyone that can help. View attachment 1351021 View attachment 1351022
 

ScottB

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The photoperiod behavior is similar to dinos, but images are not conclusive to my eyes.

Mary, what magnification are these images under? If you saw any movement on the small brown spheres, how would you describe that movement?

And what test are you using for phosphates?

You found the right thread for getting ID and treating dinos IMO, so you are approaching this like an old pro.
 

Mary Carmen

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The photoperiod behavior is similar to dinos, but images are not conclusive to my eyes.

Mary, what magnification are these images under? If you saw any movement on the small brown spheres, how would you describe that movement?

And what test are you using for phosphates?

You found the right thread for getting ID and treating dinos IMO, so you are approaching this like an old pro.
I use the API Reef Master Kit for everything but Calcium and Magnesium. I test those two with SALIFERT.
The magnification I used is 4x, my other option is 40x.
I didn’t observe any movement. I took the samples by disturbing the sand and getting some water samples. Let me know if there is a better way.
The microscope I used is my daughter’s, a Thames & Kosmos.
Thank you for your help.
 

ScottB

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Got it.

API is OK for nitrates but does not have the resolution for phosphate measurement in the lower ranges of PPM. Having a solid PO4 reading is helpful because dinos will absolutely zero them out. The preferred hobbyist test kit for PO4 is this one:


Or if you can find an LFS that will test with Hanna. If you have even .02ppm then we are looking at something besides dinos IMO. Once PO4 is gone, the nitrates will zero out too. Is 10 a normal result for your tank?

Lastly, can you try to get an image at 40X to see if that is more conclusive?
 

gatohoser

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Four months of 100% Jebao 55w Uv running with a maxi jet directly in my display and this is my status:
1EBDB39E-6D19-469A-B566-973C24BEB9A9.jpeg
Not feeling like I’m beating this stuff at this point. Running carbon still in high quantity to counter it. Have lots of flow (as much as my 12” lagoon can handle with sand). Have pineapple sponges out the wazoo so I have silicates still from dosing. Any more ideas on how to defeat them? The Jebao is degrading into fine black dust inside from its own UV at this point so I don’t want to run it much longer. Cheap equipment is not worth it for all of you considering it.
 
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Mary Carmen

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Got it.

API is OK for nitrates but does not have the resolution for phosphate measurement in the lower ranges of PPM. Having a solid PO4 reading is helpful because dinos will absolutely zero them out. The preferred hobbyist test kit for PO4 is this one:


Or if you can find an LFS that will test with Hanna. If you have even .02ppm then we are looking at something besides dinos IMO. Once PO4 is gone, the nitrates will zero out too. Is 10 a normal result for your tank?

Lastly, can you try to get an image at 40X to see if that is more conclusive?
It took me forever and I still don’t think I got the right organism. I used x4 to focus and then x40 to film. I lack experience with microscope to figure out if I did it right. Here are two clips.



 
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ScottB

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Four months of 100% Jebao 55w Uv running with a maxi jet directly in my display and this is my status:
1EBDB39E-6D19-469A-B566-973C24BEB9A9.jpeg
Not feeling like I’m beating this stuff at this point. Running carbon still in high quantity to counter it. Have lots of flow (as much as my 12” lagoon can handle with sand). Have pineapple sponges out the wazoo so I have silicates still from dosing. Any more ideas on how to defeat them? The Jebao is degrading into fine black dust inside from its own UV at this point so I don’t want to run it much longer. Cheap equipment is not worth it for all of you considering it.
Oh the sand based amphids are tough to crack. Did you confirm what kind of dinos you have tho before I go jumping to conclusions? If amphids at least they don't produce toxins that kill corals/inverts; they just look ugly. There is a separate thread for amphid treatment here. Sadly, it begins with "experimental methods" unlike the waterborne stuff.

Those corals pictured look fine and fluffy, so you got that going. (silver lining inserted). Acans were my only casualties in the dino battle.
 

ScottB

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It took me forever and I still don’t think I got the right organism. I used x4 to focus and then x40 to film. I lack experience with microscope to figure out if I did it right. Here are two clips.
From that I still cannot speak with firm conviction either way, but leaning away from dinos. Dinos are protists that swim and move aggressively even on a slide with tank water that is not >1 hr old or so. If @taricha has a different opinion, go with that. :)

The default treatment for MOST dinos is below. The exception is large cell amphidinium (sand based), treatment for which is above my pay grade.

1) Get a UV running. One watt per 3 gallons running into and out of the display not the sump. Seriously. Run at as slow as the manufacturer allows (maybe 300 gph)
2) Obtain nitrate and phosphate dosing solutions. Thousands of options. Brightwell makes premixed to stay simple but expensive. Dose to achieve at least 10 and .1 for nitrates and phosphates. Red Sea test kits for nitrates; Hanna ULR Phosphates
3) Clamp or suction cup onto your glass a bunch of filter floss into high flow and high light areas of the tank. Rinse every evening. You can export A LOT of dinos this way.
4) Run a bunch of GAC (granular activated carbon) as ostreos generate a fair amount of toxins that kill inverts and coral.
5) Shut down anything that removes nutrient from the water. I keep skimmer running but very dry. Socks are ok.
6) Baste your corals/rock/anything to get the dinos into the water to be killed by UV or otherwise exported.
7) No amino or phyto. Dinos love this stuff
 

EJReef

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What is this? It's brown, snot like and slimy to the unaided eye. I do not see any movement. This is 250x

00000IMG_00000_BURST20191230215957036_COVER.jpg

1000x
IMG_20191230_223830.jpg
 
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Mary Carmen

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From that I still cannot speak with firm conviction either way, but leaning away from dinos. Dinos are protists that swim and move aggressively even on a slide with tank water that is not >1 hr old or so. If @taricha has a different opinion, go with that. :)

The default treatment for MOST dinos is below. The exception is large cell amphidinium (sand based), treatment for which is above my pay grade.

1) Get a UV running. One watt per 3 gallons running into and out of the display not the sump. Seriously. Run at as slow as the manufacturer allows (maybe 300 gph)
2) Obtain nitrate and phosphate dosing solutions. Thousands of options. Brightwell makes premixed to stay simple but expensive. Dose to achieve at least 10 and .1 for nitrates and phosphates. Red Sea test kits for nitrates; Hanna ULR Phosphates
3) Clamp or suction cup onto your glass a bunch of filter floss into high flow and high light areas of the tank. Rinse every evening. You can export A LOT of dinos this way.
4) Run a bunch of GAC (granular activated carbon) as ostreos generate a fair amount of toxins that kill inverts and coral.
5) Shut down anything that removes nutrient from the water. I keep skimmer running but very dry. Socks are ok.
6) Baste your corals/rock/anything to get the dinos into the water to be killed by UV or otherwise exported.
7) No amino or phyto. Dinos love this stuff
Thank you! I will follow your instructions to the T.
 

gatohoser

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Oh the sand based amphids are tough to crack. Did you confirm what kind of dinos you have tho before I go jumping to conclusions? If amphids at least they don't produce toxins that kill corals/inverts; they just look ugly. There is a separate thread for amphid treatment here. Sadly, it begins with "experimental methods" unlike the waterborne stuff.

Those corals pictured look fine and fluffy, so you got that going. (silver lining inserted). Acans were my only casualties in the dino battle.
They are actually coolia dinos ID’d in this thread. Small round moving cells with what looks like a split shell. They dissipate at night and reform in the morning.
 

taricha

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@Mary Carmen
These are dinos. Either prorocentrum or an amphidinium. I'm not convinced yet they are a big issue. See CUC dying?
Best way to sample what you are seeing for microscope might be to suck up the strings that you see on the sea whip etc.
 

taricha

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They are actually coolia dinos ID’d in this thread. Small round moving cells with what looks like a split shell. They dissipate at night and reform in the morning.
Always worth a microscope re-check. Species shift under our feet.
If they dissipate off the sand, then either the UV is not functioning or the cells aren't getting into the UV.
A short blackout (48hr) can force most everything that is capable of going into the water to do so.
If that doesn't knock back the population severely, then the UV is not functioning.
 

drawman

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Always worth a microscope re-check. Species shift under our feet.
If they dissipate off the sand, then either the UV is not functioning or the cells aren't getting into the UV.
A short blackout (48hr) can force most everything that is capable of going into the water to do so.
If that doesn't knock back the population severely, then the UV is not functioning.
I have been considering doing this exact thing. Currently only running my UV at night so I don't have to look at the leaking UV light.
 

If you don't keep your sand bed clean it will cause your tank to crash.

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