Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[ScottB]

thanks for chiming in!

so raise nutrients and siphon them out is the best plan?

Your welcome. Sorry you are here, but hey, you are in good company!

Yes, target > 10 NO3 and .1 PO4 or more. Many folks also dose silicates to feed diatoms so they can compete on the sand. Oh, the irony.

Others have placed chaeto on their sandbed; I don't understand the mechanism there, but reports of success with it are around here. Might be that it hosts amphipods which can eat amphids as they are non toxic.

Honestly, these are the hard ones to get rid of. Many, (most?) have resorted to siphoning out their sand bed, letting it dry, and gradually adding it back (later, if ever).

 

[phatduckk]

Your welcome. Sorry you are here, but hey, you are in good company!

Yes, target > 10 NO3 and .1 PO4 or more. Many folks also dose silicates to feed diatoms so they can compete on the sand. Oh, the irony.

Others have placed chaeto on their sandbed; I don't understand the mechanism there, but reports of success with it are around here. Might be that it hosts amphipods which can eat amphids as they are non toxic.

Honestly, these are the hard ones to get rid of. Many, (most?) have resorted to siphoning out their sand bed, letting it dry, and gradually adding it back (later, if ever).

its a 10g frag tank w/ probably 12 frags in it. I actually have a new tank that I plan on replacing this one with. Any easy way of moving the frags to the new tank w/o worrying about bringing the dinos along for the ride?

A few plugs have the dinos on them

Otherwise I have no problem ditching the sand and other non-living things.

 

[CoralManz]

Does this look like Osteropsis to guys?

@ScottB

 

[ScottB]

its a 10g frag tank w/ probably 12 frags in it. I actually have a new tank that I plan on replacing this one with. Any easy way of moving the frags to the new tank w/o worrying about bringing the dinos along for the ride?

A few plugs have the dinos on them

Otherwise I have no problem ditching the sand and other non-living things.

Ah, I see. In my experience, new sterile surfaces make for a happy place for dinos. It could be just me, but each time I added a new tank to my connected frag system the new one became infested -- even as the older tanks in the system remained visibly clear. Three times in a row. I am about to add (today!) a third 44G sump and am a little nervous it will repeat. In my theory I should be OK, as I am running the system so dirty now that my mother would be embarrassed. Plus, I won't light the sump right away either. So it should not be a very hospitable place for dinos to propagate. I just have to make sure I compensate for the (minor) dilution and hope that film and bacterial algaes form quick enough to take up the the sterile surface before the dinos can.

You should assume dinos will transfer over, so we have to make life hard for them. Any chance you can run the new tank for a while BEFORE "contaminating"? Cycle it, light it very early and with a long photo period, and run as dirty as you can so that the surfaces are coated? It is ironic that I am telling you to do all the WRONG things for a normal startup, but we are encouraging algae growth early. And yeah, running separate is a PITA, but that is the best idea I have right now.

Again, those are amphids so they won't kill frags. They indirectly can kill by sucking up nutrient faster than everybody else. But you can control the nutrient import/export. Oh, one more tip while on nutrients: NO AMINO ACID dosing. Dinos take it all. Stick with phyto, Roids, etc.

 

[trmiv]

c

Well hell. After dealing with dinos in my last tank two years ago that wiped out all my corals, I was hoping to avoid them in my new tank. Been noticing a minor amount of brown algae on the sand lately so I got a microscope.



Looks like Coolia? Any advice?

In my last tank it was early days in our Dino understanding and I beat them with increased feeding, a blackout and a 24w green killing machine. This current tank has been a nightmare to keep nutrients up in with my phosphate going to zero every day after dosing .06ppm and heavy feeding. only nutrient export I even have is a skimmer. No carbon dosing, no refugium, no socks.

Now there isn’t many of these ******** yet. I’ve only found a few small patches, but I’m not taking any chances. My plan for this is:

-Begin daily phosphate dosing to stay at .1ppm
-Run my green killing machine UV in the display (worked great in my 120 previously)
-3 day black out to weaken them

Does that sound like a decent plan for Coolia?

Can anyone confirm the ones I’m dealing with in my post here are Coolia? Seemed like it to me.

 

[ScottB]

c

Can anyone confirm the ones I’m dealing with in my post here are Coolia? Seemed like it to me.

Yes, coolia. Yes on dosing NO3 & PO4. No aminos. Turkey baste them into the water as often as possible. A blackout can also help get them into the water. They are similar in behavior to ostreopsis, so you may also want to clamp some filter floss to the side glass in high light and flow. They may prefer that as a substrate which you can obviously remove/rinse each evening.

These too are low in toxins and won't on their own kill corals. They just consume all the nutrient which can starve your animals.

 

[trmiv]

Good to know thanks. In my 120 I beat a horrible ostreopsis invasion, so if they are similar I think I can lock this down. Luckily there aren’t many yet. I had some Dino PTSD after what happened in my old tank, so the second I saw a few small patches in this tank I wanted to jump into action.

 

[Qasimja]

do you guys leave the uv running 24x7 or only at night? ive been having it running 24x7 does it hurt anything to have it running all the time?

 

[trmiv]

I leave mine running all the time. There's a lot of people, especially the past few years, that run substantial UV 24/7 even when not battling dinos.

 

[ScottB]

I also run 24/7. Does not seem to have an bad effects that I can detect anyway.

 

[ScottB]

@ScottB

At that level of magnification, I cannot feel 100% certain but yes. the shape strongly resembles ostreopsis. If you observed them swimming, did they seem to swim in a random fashion, but as if the pointed end was invisibly "tethered" to a spot which they were swimming around? That is their swim pattern.

 

[xyzner]

Ordered a microscope yesterday, what’s everybody’s thoughts? FYI: first time in 10 years I’ve tried to use a microscope:

 

[ScottB]

Ordered a microscope yesterday, what’s everybody’s thoughts? FYI: first time in 10 years I’ve tried to use a microscope:

My eyes or my screen are not good enough to make those out. Pressed to guess, I would cell Amphidinium small cell. If you can use your camera phone zoom function maybe we can get some confirmation. Or slightly higher magnification or video. Can you describe:
a) What was their movement like on the slide?
b) Where they are clustering in your tank? Sand? Rock, glass, plastics?
c) Long snotty strands or low brown gunk?

 

[xyzner]

I will see if I can camera zoom and get a better image. My max zoom on the microscope is 320x I believe. They are brown, hair like, with air bubbles and a few snotty strands. All over my corner overflow (plastic), tunze pump, and in areas on my rock. Nothing of significance in the sand.

I honestly didn’t see any movement. In any case, what’s the best way to get a good culture from the tank to view? I struggled to find anything except algae strands in my first 5 tries. Is it normal for Dinos to pair up with algae or are they usually solitary colonies of strictly Dinos?

I appreciate the help!

 

[ScottB]

I will see if I can camera zoom and get a better image. My max zoom on the microscope is 320x I believe. They are brown, hair like, with air bubbles and a few snotty strands. All over my corner overflow (plastic), tunze pump, and in areas on my rock. Nothing of significance in the sand.

I honestly didn’t see any movement. In any case, what’s the best way to get a good culture from the tank to view? I struggled to find anything except algae strands in my first 5 tries. Is it normal for Dinos to pair up with algae or are they usually solitary colonies of strictly Dinos?

I appreciate the help!

I'll attach the ID guide in case you can get a better ID on them. I don't see ostreopsis shaped cells, but the rest are possible contenders. It is very common to have more than one dino type. It also common for them to collect on and kill off algae -- also cyano.

I typically shut of circulation and use a razor to get scrapings. Include some tank water on the slide. You will often see some movement of the critters. If not moving, tends to be procentrum. But procentrum have a very clear circle visible in the center of the cell which I could not see at this magnification.

In the meantime, almost all of the species (except Large cell Amphidinium) call for similar treatment methods:
a) UV: run to/from affected display, 1 watt per 3 gallons, run slow flow
b) Increase NO3 and PO4 to > 10 and > .1 respectively. Stop/dramatically decrease nutrient removal tools and chemicals. Skim dry
c) No amino dosing; dinos crave them leaving nothing for corals
d) Manual removal as much as possible; or get them into the water column to be zapped.
e) some are toxic (ostreopsis in particular) so running activated carbon helps remove toxins

 

[ScottB]

I will see if I can camera zoom and get a better image. My max zoom on the microscope is 320x I believe. They are brown, hair like, with air bubbles and a few snotty strands. All over my corner overflow (plastic), tunze pump, and in areas on my rock. Nothing of significance in the sand.

I honestly didn’t see any movement. In any case, what’s the best way to get a good culture from the tank to view? I struggled to find anything except algae strands in my first 5 tries. Is it normal for Dinos to pair up with algae or are they usually solitary colonies of strictly Dinos?

I appreciate the help!

Oops. Forgot the link.

 

[Nanorock1970]

Not sure if it’s diatoms or not. They disappear at night and return to the sand by day. They are not hair like at all, more like brown dust if I take a power head and increase flow near them.
I have about 10 ppm nitrate and guessing about .03 to .1 on phosphate (not quite sure on the light almost non existent blue color from my Salifert Po4 test)
Waiting on a new microscope as the one I was sent was cheap plastic and there is some sort of residue inside so I can’t see anything but the light shining through a haze.

 

[ScottB]

Not sure if it’s diatoms or not. They disappear at night and return to the sand by day. They are not hair like at all, more like brown dust if I take a power head and increase flow near them.
I have about 10 ppm nitrate and guessing about .03 to .1 on phosphate (not quite sure on the light almost non existent blue color from my Salifert Po4 test)
Waiting on a new microscope as the one I was sent was cheap plastic and there is some sort of residue inside so I can’t see anything but the light shining through a haze.

It never hurts to have a good microscope on hand, and the practise will be good for when you really need it. I would also recommend the Hanna ULR checker. I use the Phosphorus one as it is said to be better for marine applications. Take the number it gives you then multiply by 3.0661, then divide by 1000 so you can quote the phosphate numbers we all quote around here.

If you really have .03 to .1 PO4, those are certainly diatoms. I think you can breathe easy and just keep doing what you are doing. Diatoms are fine creatures; never hurt a thing. A sand sifting goby can handle the aesthetics of white sand pretty well IME.

 

[malacoda]

What do you all think, coolia?

 

[ScottB]

What do you all think, coolia?

Yeah, pretty sure I see coolia too. Can't quite make out pronounced ridges, but shape and movement matches well to coolia.