Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Miami Reef]

Unrelated question: I had ich in my tank so I took out all my corals and dosed copper directly into my tank. I haven’t seen a single dino, but I do have diatoms, coralline algae, and some film algae.

Did I eradicate dinos from my now FOWLR? I’m not adding any corals nor inverts ever again.

 

[Brice Wagner]

Hello I have an outbreak. I've had it before and just controlled it by keeping my tank dirty.

This time around the I couldn't get nitrates readable regardless of how much food I fed. I started dosing NaNO3 yesterday.

My PO4 is 0.017 ppm
Can someone help ID?

My plan is low light, nitrate to 15ppm and dose bac7. Should I dose Si?

 

[saltyhog]

Hello I have an outbreak. I've had it before and just controlled it by keeping my tank dirty.

This time around the I couldn't get nitrates readable regardless of how much food I fed. I started dosing NaNO3 yesterday.

My PO4 is 0.017 ppm
Can someone help ID?

My plan is low light, nitrate to 15ppm and dose bac7. Should I dose Si?

The slide is really too thick to see much detail but looking at the gross appearance and what I can see I would think this is prorocentrum. Try to get a little thinner smear....more tank water less mucous and try to do a video.

 

[iLMaRiO]

I would advise A LOT of research into this method. It works. It produces some beautiful reefs, but I would consider it a fairly advanced method. It is not next level stuff. It is beyond that.

The RESULT of the method produces low residual nutrient but that is not really where you should START.

I would focus first on where your reef is right now and get some answers and stability there first while you run up the learning curve. You need to study and follow somebody who has traveled this road.

@ycnibrc do IRCC that you are a Zeo user?

I know, but I like to experiment.
I'm also interested in full triton method, don't know which one of both is better honestly.

But, at very first, i have to remove the dino outbreak. I'm waiting (should be delivered today) for a 1200x microscope, let's see which kind of dino I have.

 

[iLMaRiO]

some pics and a video, any idea? @taricha ?

 

[iLMaRiO]

looks like ostreopsis to me

 

[Brice Wagner]

The slide is really too thick to see much detail but looking at the gross appearance and what I can see I would think this is prorocentrum. Try to get a little thinner smear....more tank water less mucous and try to do a video.

Here is a video. I'll try and redo it tonight if needed.

Thanks for the help!

 

[ScottB]

looks like ostreopsis to me

Agreed ostreopsis dominant. Last pic at about 17:00 hrs might be LC Amphids. Also another at dead center. But I would come back to those later and focus on the more toxic Ostreos.

You know what to do, right?

A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide

docs.google.com

 

[ScottB]

Here is a video. I'll try and redo it tonight if needed.

Thanks for the help!

Like @saltyhog I am leaning Proro but still a chance of LC Amphids. If you could zoom that video with ur phone for a tad more detail...

I would bump PO4 a bit and YES to silicate dosing. If we can rule out Proro, then you can skip the expensive UV and a blackout.

A good long toilet read...

A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide

docs.google.com

 

[Brice Wagner]

Like @saltyhog I am leaning Proro but still a chance of LC Amphids. If you could zoom that video with ur phone for a tad more detail...

I would bump PO4 a bit and YES to silicate dosing. If we can rule out Proro, then you can skip the expensive UV and a blackout.

A good long toilet read...

A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide

docs.google.com

Thank you. I'll start pushing it back the other way. I'll update if I have some progress and with better pics.

 

[iLMaRiO]

You know what to do, right?

A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide

docs.google.com

more or less, yes. i'm waiting for a 55w UV lamp (430 liters net tank). i'll put that directly in display tank and finger crossed.
i would avoid dosing po4 and no3 due to zeovit, rising them and then bringing down again with zeovit doesn't make much sense i think

i know that ostreopsis will go to the water during light off, but it does completely (tank clean at the night) or some of them are still visibile? because i can still see some "strings" mostly on glass and rocks, and a little bit on Sand (like diatoms)

after a couple of hours with lights on, they grow a lot. let's say that night reduction is from 100% to 15% but the 15% is still visibilevisibile.

pics attached, keep in mind that there is some envitonmental light, it s not 100% dark

 

[Yodeling]

i know that ostreopsis will go to the water during light off, but it does completely (tank clean at the night) or some of them are still visibile? because i can still see some "strings" mostly on glass and rocks, and a little bit on Sand (like diatoms)

In my experience, visible Ostreopsis does NOT go into the water column after lights out. The strings that are attached to rock etc will persist through the night and keep growing the next day. Maybe some people have some different type of Ostreopsis that completely disappears at night and floats around, but mine looks and behaves exactly like yours.

 

[iLMaRiO]

in that case, manual cleaning would be ok, right?

 

[ScottB]

more or less, yes. i'm waiting for a 55w UV lamp (430 liters net tank). i'll put that directly in display tank and finger crossed.
i would avoid dosing po4 and no3 due to zeovit, rising them and then bringing down again with zeovit doesn't make much sense i think

i know that ostreopsis will go to the water during light off, but it does completely (tank clean at the night) or some of them are still visibile? because i can still see some "strings" mostly on glass and rocks, and a little bit on Sand (like diatoms)

after a couple of hours with lights on, they grow a lot. let's say that night reduction is from 100% to 15% but the 15% is still visibilevisibile.

pics attached, keep in mind that there is some envitonmental light, it s not 100% dark

In my experience, visible Ostreopsis does NOT go into the water column after lights out. The strings that are attached to rock etc will persist through the night and keep growing the next day. Maybe some people have some different type of Ostreopsis that completely disappears at night and floats around, but mine looks and behaves exactly like yours.

in that case, manual cleaning would be ok, right?

The mucus mats are used to trap food. They can dissipate a little overnight, but the protists swim free of them at night.

Yes, manually remove as much as you can. The "poor man's UV" method of hanging filter floss everywhere is actually pretty effective on ostreos. Or just a powerhead and canister filter.

 

[iLMaRiO]

so, UV lamp h24 and burn everything

 

[Yodeling]

The mucus mats are used to trap food. They can dissipate a little overnight, but the protists swim free of them at night.

Hey, not trying to discredit this theory or cause any drama but I just took a sampling of one of the strings attached to a rock after 17 hours of total darkness in the tank, and I here's what I saw. This also explains why my UV is ineffective at eliminating them. I've heard this theory about Ostreopsis repeated over and over in many threads, but I have yet to find any credible article that supports the fact that the Ostreo leaves the the mucus at night. Obviously, my own simple experiment says otherwise. Maybe I have some other variant of Ostreo, or maybe there's some other factor that compels them to go free-swim in other people's tanks. Thoughts?

 

[Yodeling]

so, UV lamp h24 and burn everything

My UV (Pentair HO) has not proven effective at eliminating Ostreo. So, in my case at least, it's not as simple as just running UV 24/7. Your results may vary, and I've seen people on this board claiming that UV alone eliminated it in short timespan. See my post above regarding my observation.

 

[dwest]

Hey, not trying to discredit this theory or cause any drama but I just took a sampling of one of the strings attached to a rock after 17 hours of total darkness in the tank, and I here's what I saw. This also explains why my UV is ineffective at eliminating them. I've heard this theory about Ostreopsis repeated over and over in many threads, but I have yet to find any credible article that supports the fact that the Ostreo leaves the the mucus at night. Obviously, my own simple experiment says otherwise. Maybe I have some other variant of Ostreo, or maybe there's some other factor that compels them to go free-swim in other people's tanks. Thoughts?

There has been a least a few reputable accounts of UV not being effective against ostreopsis. How are you running your UV?

 

[ScottB]

As @dwest says, there have been a few instances where no progress was made with UV, but it is pretty rare. @Yodeling can you confirm that your UV implementation meets these suggestions?

• Ignore manufacturers recommended specs for sizing and flow! Their numbers are designed to sterilise/kill soft little parasites, bacteria and water borne algae. Those numbers are not designed to eliminate hard shelled protists sporting body armor.
• 1 watt per 3 gallons of tank volume
• Flow should turn over the tank 1-3 times per hour. The bigger the unit relative to tank size, the faster you can go and vice versa. As long as the bulb stays cool enough, you are not running too slow IMO.
• This should be plumbed directly from the display tank and returning back into the display. I used some PVC so that I could just slap it on the side of the tank, plug it in and go. Here is what that looks like. I know you are thinking it is ugly and unnecessary but it is effective, temporary and easy to add/delete.
• Ensure that the darn thing is running properly. The ballast is good and the bulb is less than 12 months old and hasn't been overheated.
• Baste as frequently as you can so that the dinos pass through the UV.
• To varying degrees, these species go swimming at night. Ostreopsis are the most adventurous of the four and I never needed to do a blackout to get them under control. The other three may require a blackout to get them moving into the water column. Try a two day blackout first to see if that is enough. Wrap the tank in cardboard or black trash bags. Turn off the fuge light if you have one going.

Blacking out the tank without a proper UV in place is very unlikely to help. Yes, dinos are photosynthetic, but so is the needed competition. When the lights come back up you are back where you started.

 

[Yodeling]

It's a brand new 50W Pentair HO on 130g tank and ~200g total water volume. Plumbed DT to DT. Tried for a couple weeks at 250gph, then tried at 450gph for a couple weeks. It might be slowing them down, I'm not sure. But again, if a significant portion of the Ostreo doesn't go into the water column, it seems like it's not going to work. My Ostreo is definitely enjoying the comfort of the mucus mats at night.

Edit: I have done a 1 day blackout initially, which improved things drastically. Then they returned a week later. So I did a 3 day blackout with the UV running, and it again improved things. But they always eventually returned. My nutrients are where they "should be" the whole time (using a doser for No3 and Po4).