Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

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ScottB

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Thank Scott. I think the shape was confusing because of how the slide was lit (from above the slide rather than below the slide). It seems that when top lit, the theca and sesame seed-shape is much harder to see. Here are the same cells lit from the bottom.

WIN_20220408_21_37_04_Pro.jpg


Here is a video with bottom lighting as well, and the cell shape is much more consistent with Ostreopsis.
Yeah, I have no doubt this is ostreopsis now.

I cover everything you need to treat these in this article, in case you haven't seen it, but a large UV is your friend now.

 
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xiaoxiy

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Yeah, I have no doubt this is ostreopsis now.

I cover everything you need to treat these in this article, in case you haven't seen it, but a large UV is your friend now.

I'm curious about that 1 watt/3 gal UV recommendation. Is that total system volume or volume of affected display?

My Dinos in the past have definitely been UV sensitive, however this particular strain seems to be somewhat resistant. This is the output line of my TMC Vecton 600 (1 month old bulbs) with a strand of Ostreopsis laughing at me...
 
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ScottB

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I'm curious about that 1 watt/3 gal UV recommendation. Is that total system volume or volume of affected display?

My Dinos in the past have definitely been UV sensitive, however this particular strain seems to be somewhat resistant. This is the output line of my TMC Vecton 600 (1 month old bulbs) with a strand of Ostreopsis laughing at me...
lol. Although bryopsis is no laughing matter.

1:3 is a guide for DT really, unless the sump is really large. It is a rough measure, but considerably larger than manufacturer instructions. Most dinos have protective theca body armor.
 
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mikeytrw

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Hello all,

A quick update from me:

To recap I have SCA with a few LCA kicking about as well.

I've been dosing N03, PO4, '5 species' live phyto, some rotifers, pods and Si using waterglass, testing all three params daily and dosing as required. Also dosing MB7 but I'm not as consistent with that, generally dosing after a sand bed vacuum.

I did set up a UV but removed it as it would likely do more harm than good.

I've also been vacuuming the sand bed through a 5micron filter sock back into the sump every few days and have added some lumps of live rock from LFS into sump. I managed to find a store with AF Life Source live mud in stock but that hasn't arrived yet.

What I've noticed: There is definitely a diatom bloom, my snails are moving again and cleaning the rocks and the dino mat regrowth after a vacuum is slowing down.

I got a new microscope, and have been seeing lots of what I think are diatoms and less dinos, although my sample method has changed so that's inconclusive.

All in all seems like positive signs.

Thanks all for the help will update again in week or two.
 
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Kevinkmk

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taricha

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However, there is like a gold dust thing growing on some rock and it does not look like diatom or Dino under the microscope. Any idea what is it?

https://youtube.com/shorts/WGKauNMqZlc?feature=share
cryptomonas likely. Seems to fit this...
These are not a dino. They are another random harmless flagellate. Something like a cryptomonas / rhodomonas.
Here they are in a couple of vids from my system, shape and movement a lot like yours:

(Close-up):
 
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Tom Bishop

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Well i try and try but I cannot seem to really kick these guys to the curb, I still think these are ostreo, most of my rock is clean but anything very high up seems to be the spot, saw a large strand today at the end of the light cycle and this is what it looked like under the scope:

PXL_20220421_232831702.jpg

PXL_20220421_232901255.jpg


PXL_20220421_232929380.jpg


I've tried almost everything, I have nutrients, N03 - 8ppm, po4 - .05, I have a UV running and has been for weeks. For the most part my rocks are clean and it's a BB tank, I have added live rubble twice from aquabiomics and live sand from aquabiomics. I have three pieces of live rock from KP aquatics but I just can't seem to kick them to the curb for good. Several weeks ago I only ran with moon lights for 6 days and tank really cleared up and stayed pretty clean but still have them popping up on my powerhead and return outlet up high in the tank.

@ScottB or @taricha anything else to try, thinking about adding some waterglass and maybe getting some diatoms to bloom, what else should I try or should I just ignore them and carry on...ugh.

:)
 

ScottB

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Well i try and try but I cannot seem to really kick these guys to the curb, I still think these are ostreo, most of my rock is clean but anything very high up seems to be the spot, saw a large strand today at the end of the light cycle and this is what it looked like under the scope:

PXL_20220421_232831702.jpg

PXL_20220421_232901255.jpg


PXL_20220421_232929380.jpg


I've tried almost everything, I have nutrients, N03 - 8ppm, po4 - .05, I have a UV running and has been for weeks. For the most part my rocks are clean and it's a BB tank, I have added live rubble twice from aquabiomics and live sand from aquabiomics. I have three pieces of live rock from KP aquatics but I just can't seem to kick them to the curb for good. Several weeks ago I only ran with moon lights for 6 days and tank really cleared up and stayed pretty clean but still have them popping up on my powerhead and return outlet up high in the tank.

@ScottB or @taricha anything else to try, thinking about adding some waterglass and maybe getting some diatoms to bloom, what else should I try or should I just ignore them and carry on...ugh.

:)
Yes to ostreos. Typically, they clear pretty quick with a good size UV, but there have been a couple lasting cases.

My usual checklist (which I think you have already run through IIRC):
a) size and flow rate through UV; fresh bulb.
b) No amino acids
c) You can add some filter floss to their preferred collection areas. Rinse each eve before lights go down.

The goal isn't complete eradication, just submission to other surface competitors. I haven't seen an ostreo with the naked eye in a year or two, but if I put a scrape under the lens I would find a few.
 
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Tom Bishop

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Yes to ostreos. Typically, they clear pretty quick with a good size UV, but there have been a couple lasting cases.

My usual checklist (which I think you have already run through IIRC):
a) size and flow rate through UV; fresh bulb.
b) No amino acids
c) You can add some filter floss to their preferred collection areas. Rinse each eve before lights go down.

The goal isn't complete eradication, just submission to other surface competitors. I haven't seen an ostreo with the naked eye in a year or two, but if I put a scrape under the lens I would find a few.
Yeah I have an in tank UV and its running about 1.5x tank volume, like I said the rockwork below and other tank locations are pretty clean but the higher up is where I see issues and just can't seem to kick them to the curb. Replaced the bulb couple months back, not dosing any aminos or coral food only have a couple of leathers.

Just can't seem to figure out what to do differently, maybe I will hang some floss just not sure how that helps get them out of the tank. Just not sure what I can to do get something else to out compete them, would adding some waterglass and creating a diatom bloom help maybe? I know in the guide its more focused at LCA etc but thought I would ask, just looking for what else I can add to help out compete them.
 

keithIHS

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Anyone try a whole house filter with 5 micron filter instead of UV? Something like

Culligan HF-360A Standard Duty 3/4" Inlet/Outlet Whole House Filtration System, Clear​

at Amazon
(sorry, pasting the link isn't working)
and

Culligan SCWH-5 Standard-Duty Whole House Water Filter Replacement Cartridges, 2-Pack, Black​

The cartridge has carbon so should help with toxins.
Hope I'm not irritating or hijacking: May I ask again about micron filter instead of UV?
 

mikedrumm22

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Hi all! Dont know if this will reach anyone, but here to report success with dinoflagellates, pretty sure the good ol amphidinium ostreopsis combo….

the achilles heel of these creatures is that they clump together

Treatment level chems:
Salinity: 35.0
Temp: 83.0
NO3: 15-20 (AT PEAK) 5.0 (during final days)
PO4: 0.03-0.1 (Keep it low and slow)
Alk: 9-12
Mag: 1200-1600

METHOD:
0. RUN CARBON
1. Siphon out all as many dinos as possible using a 10 nm sock. Siphon the water through the sock into a bucket and then pour back into the tank. You want to avoid water changes because it will keep your chems as stable as possible, so keep as much of your old water as possible.
2. Increase your temperature to 83.0. (I personally went from 80-83 in 12 hours with no ill effects to corals, but do this as slowly as you please).
3. You may have to do some plumbing here. Apply a UV Sterilizer with a flow rate no more than 3x tank capacity/hr. This should be the ONLY flow to and from your tank. Turn off all other pumps. If you observe any negative reactions in animals, test ammonia first. Treat accordingly and resume dino treatment once biological filtration is more established.
4. BLOW THEM OFF! As the dinos die off, they will form strongholds on your rocks and in dead areas of your tank. Temp increase seems to slow the spread but not directly kill them. Just wait it out. 83.0 was considered a low temp for some old school reefers. Blow the dinos off your rocks, and siphon them out through the sock. The sock is your best friend in this situation.

PERSONAL NOTES:
my monti caps and digis did fine when the dinos were at their worst. Zoas closed a lot but they can handle years without fully opening. I lost a duncan and pocillopora (lowkey thank god) when the dinos were at their worst. Two losses out of 11 isnt too bad, but i wish I knew then what I know now.

Best of luck and happy reefing,
mike d
 
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mikedrumm22

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Hi all! Dont know if this will reach anyone, but here to report success with dinoflagellates, pretty sure the good ol amphidinium ostreopsis combo….

the achilles heel of these creatures is that they clump together

Treatment level chems:
Salinity: 35.0
Temp: 83.0
NO3: 15-20 (AT PEAK) 5.0 (during final days)
PO4: 0.03-0.1 (Keep it low and slow)
Alk: 9-12
Mag: 1200-1600

METHOD:
0. RUN CARBON
1. Siphon out all as many dinos as possible using a 10 nm sock. Siphon the water through the sock into a bucket and then pour back into the tank. You want to avoid water changes because it will keep your chems as stable as possible, so keep as much of your old water as possible.
2. Increase your temperature to 83.0. (I personally went from 80-83 in 12 hours with no ill effects to corals, but do this as slowly as you please).
3. You may have to do some plumbing here. Apply a UV Sterilizer with a flow rate no more than 3x tank capacity/hr. This should be the ONLY flow to and from your tank. Turn off all other pumps. If you observe any negative reactions in animals, test ammonia first. Treat accordingly and resume dino treatment once biological filtration is more established.
4. BLOW THEM OFF! As the dinos die off, they will form strongholds on your rocks and in dead areas of your tank. Temp increase seems to slow the spread but not directly kill them. Just wait it out. 83.0 was considered a low temp for some old school reefers. Blow the dinos off your rocks, and siphon them out through the sock. The sock is your best friend in this situation.

PERSONAL NOTES:
my monti caps and digis did fine when the dinos were at their worst. Zoas closed a lot but they can handle years without fully opening. I lost a duncan and pocillopora (lowkey thank god) when the dinos were at their worst. Two losses out of 11 isnt too bad, but i wish I knew then what I know now.

Best of luck and happy reefing,
mike d
Should add, use brightwell neophos and neonitro to control nutrient levels
 

ssebz

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Hi! This is my first time posting so hopefully it’s in the right place. I have been battling a yucky tank for some time now. The LFS had recommended that I keep nitrates and phosphates at zero- and it kept getting worse. I finally called another LFS and was given a fantastic post about doing just the opposite. I was also told that the only way to know for sure what I am fighting with is to look under a scope- which I did now. I could really use some help identifying these guys (since I am totally new at this) so that I can finally make some progress on clearing up my tank. Thanks in advance!
 

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ScottB

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Hi! This is my first time posting so hopefully it’s in the right place. I have been battling a yucky tank for some time now. The LFS had recommended that I keep nitrates and phosphates at zero- and it kept getting worse. I finally called another LFS and was given a fantastic post about doing just the opposite. I was also told that the only way to know for sure what I am fighting with is to look under a scope- which I did now. I could really use some help identifying these guys (since I am totally new at this) so that I can finally make some progress on clearing up my tank. Thanks in advance!
First, a hearty warm welcome to R2R!

Second, welcome to the club nobody wants to join - the Dino club.

I cannot quite make those out without a little more magnification. I will link the ID Guide for you. Check the linked videos and pics. The swim pattern is very important for identification. Also, @taricha has a pretty good eye for these so maybe he can chime in.


Lastly, an article I wrote a while back that may prove helpful for dinos and insomnia.

 
AS

taricha

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The swim pattern is very important for identification. Also, @taricha has a pretty good eye for these so maybe he can chime in.
that swim pattern and rate and the size comparison to those cyano strands makes me lean small cell amphidinium.
 

ScottB

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that swim pattern and rate and the size comparison to those cyano strands makes me lean small cell amphidinium.
I noticed the speed but not the size differential. That is advanced thinking and glad I asked. Cheers JB.
 
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