Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[reeferfoxx]

I used to follow the whole 20-50% water change and was never able to keep sps alive.
Changing to 5% for me revolved that. Plenty of ways these days to reduce organics outside of water changes, which I've always found the least effective.

I suppose it's *** for tat. Many SPS nanos on nano-reef that perform large water changes.

 

[Paullawr]

I suppose it's *** for tat. Many SPS nanos on nano-reef that perform large water changes.

Sure there are. As I say it was common to do so. Just didn't work for me on my own 20g, 50g and 30g. Stressed corals fish would hide et el.
Id say this is why Triton method has gained so much popularity.

Whilst I've employed Triton method successfully in the past I'd still do a small water change fortnightly. I think I just thought it would do some good overall.

I guess it all goes back to the 'keeping hands out of tank' philosophy. Sometimes things upset something that you think shouldn't.

What salt mix are you considering?

 

[reeferfoxx]

What salt mix are you considering?

For now, I'll be going back to Tropic Marin Pro Reef small boxes. I've had major inconsistancies with the 200g buckets but spot on parameters with the smaller 32g boxes. I will say it's unfortunate that my experience has been bad with fritz as this 200g box has been consistant even 3/4ths through the box. The big 3 have never deviated.

 

[Paullawr]

Shame really, especially as the stuff ain't cheap. Not used tropic marine myself but heard many positives.

I've changed salt a few times I've the years not found that sweet spot yet, but current is close to my liking. Having said this going natural sea water - Nutri-sea this time around.
http://www.nutriseawater.com/

Its pricey but as only 20g tank it will be OK to run it this way. Have some Salt left over as backup as well.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Shame really, especially as the stuff ain't cheap. Not used tropic marine myself but heard many positives.

I've changed salt a few times I've the years not found that sweet spot yet, but current is close to my liking. Having said this going natural sea water - Nutri-sea this time around.
http://www.nutriseawater.com/

Its pricey but as only 20g tank it will be OK to run it this way. Have some Salt left over as backup as well.

Looks like pretty good stuff. No alk description but assuming it has Ca 420ppm the balance would be 7-7.5. Though curious it's SG is 1.027. For 4.4g @$20 that might be a little too rich for my blood lol

 

[Paullawr]

Looks like pretty good stuff. No alk description but assuming it has Ca 420ppm the balance would be 7-7.5. Though curious it's SG is 1.027. For 4.4g @$20 that might be a little too rich for my blood lol

Spot on with alk. Yes sg is a little high. A LFS advised someone else to add a bit RO to dilute it down a touch. Mind they may have rounded it up from 1.026x
I will probably reduce it to 1.025, gives a little wiggle room.

Agree it's not cheap and wouldn't normally go this route but just moved house and no option to install RO here at the moment. Whilst I can cart a Jerry can over to my dad's and run some there it does make it more restricted. Besides rather keep RO for evaporation.

Will see how it goes.

 

[Paullawr]

Here's food for thought....

We are all so consumed with dipping Corals etc these days I wonder if for a moment we are doing just sd much harm as good.

There are very limited dips to kill dinos yet most common dips kill larger prey. Are we making it easy for dinoflagellates to reproduce by removing anything else that may affect them.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Here's food for thought....

We are all so consumed with dipping Corals etc these days I wonder if for a moment we are doing just sd much harm as good.

There are very limited dips to kill dinos yet most common dips kill larger prey. Are we making it easy for dinoflagellates to reproduce by removing anything else that may affect them.

No, I think thats the point that Taricha has been making. That our source for dinos comes from many places. It can be carried from corals, inverts and sometimes even fish poop. Understanding the advantages of using quality live rock vs dry rock and excessive use of nutrient export and/or chemicals. The other factor is that many believe that tanks go through dino cycles much like diatoms, gha, and cyano. It all goes back to taking things slow and allowing the tank to mature through these cycles. Don't forget the point of this thread though. People are here because of advice or instances that inadvertently allowed dinos to thrive.

 

[ifarmer]

so any good way to cure dino?

 

[Paullawr]

You cannot cure what isn't a disease.
Just depends on definition of disease I guess.

Have a read through this thread which has gone full circle a few times now. Hopefully gives you enough of an idea on what to go on. This like the 'Other' thread are becoming a bit long in the tooth.

 

[taricha]

Unlike the old thread, this one has a first post that gets updated and pretty much lays out the recommended direction.
@ifarmer check OP and see if it helps. Post up if any Qs.

 

[Paullawr]

This thread could be summed up in a word.

Balance.

There said it.

The problem is what is balance. One person's stable environment is not the same as the next. Or is it. The difference reef keeping today vs 10 year ago are successful bacteria, quality equipment and technology that makes it easier than ever.

There I guess are the faults. We have created an environment which may well be great for certain cnidiarians but that includes those snotty swimming things.

Really what this thread is discussing is upsetting a balance you have found in favour of a new one.

Ultimately I see no answers to questions. Just more questions and conjecture. That's is, because no one has the answer.

The real key is not toggling Nitrogen compounds but rather changing something in the hope it favours one organism and is unfavourable to another.

 

[mcarroll]

The problem is what is balance.

Theory on nutrient ratios and algae/bacteria has a nice discussion of this.

Of course I agree with my own posts there the most like post #23 where I said about balance:

it might be more correct to say that organisms absolutely require a balance for optimal performance

but what we're leaving out is that the term "balance" actually implies a component of time

you will see something referred to as "nutrient history" in the literature

at the other end of the spectrum from "balance" you can look up deprivation studies on (e.g.) phytoplankton to see what they grow like under nutrient deprivation

Yes, of course I went on at length from there....can't help it.

 

[mcarroll]

The difference reef keeping today vs 10 year ago are successful bacteria, quality equipment and technology that makes it easier than ever.

I would beg to differ....folks succeeded before 10 years ago too!

That means that modern conveniences weren't a missing ingredient in the failures.

Not coincidentally, folks that succeeded without "modern conveniences" are also succeeding with them today.

Failures, however, don't seem to have been reduced by any of these conveniences.

At least from where I sit, it appears that the rate of success among beginners is at least as low as it's been in my lifetime, so it's hard to imagine that modern conveniences are somehow helping. If anything some of the conveniences seem to be complicating and distracting and even deleterious in their effect in these cases.

It's interesting to consider that there was a level of success 160 years ago (Aquarium History) when there was literally no hobby and it was all being figured out from scratch – no knowledge, no gear, no test kits, no pet stores, no experts, nothing. Knowing that gives me a different perspective on the progress the hobby has/hasn't made than I had before.

 

[Paullawr]

I would beg to differ....folks succeeded before 10 years ago too!

That means that modern conveniences weren't a missing ingredient in the failures.

Not coincidentally, folks that succeeded without "modern conveniences" are also succeeding with them today.

Failures, however, don't seem to have been reduced by any of these conveniences.

At least from where I sit, it appears that the rate of success among beginners is at least as low as it's been in my lifetime, so it's hard to imagine that modern conveniences are somehow helping. If anything some of the conveniences seem to be complicating and distracting and even deleterious in their effect in these cases.

It's interesting to consider that there was a level of success 160 years ago (Aquarium History) when there was literally no hobby and it was all being figured out from scratch – no knowledge, no gear, no test kits, no pet stores, no experts, nothing. Knowing that gives me a different perspective on the progress the hobby has/hasn't made than I had before.

10 years ago was just a period plucked from the air. 160 years ago if we must consisted of fish living in aquariums for short spaces of time. I wouldn't call it success.

There are parallels here.

 

[Paullawr]

Happy 2018 all. Let's hope some further progress is made.

 

[mcarroll]

160 years ago if we must consisted of fish living in aquariums for short spaces of time. I wouldn't call it success.

I may be misunderstanding, but it seems you want to discount the significance of the story.

Fish??? No. A balanced aquarium!

Short spaces of time??? No. Two years of success was a true feat 160 years ago. Just consider: no buckets, no aquariums, no heaters, no hoses, no pumps, no books, no electricity, nothing. We should be in awe.​

So I'm not in favor of discounting that two years myself. It deserves to be highlighted and held up as an example.

Why?

Because a large percentage of folks today never appear to surpass the level of success achieved 160 years ago.

In spite of every modern convenience.

Did you happen to look at the marine aquarium handbook from the 1850's linked in that article? Amazing!

 

[Paullawr]

I've read all about the first aquariums and no they weren't a success in comparison to now but yes a success then based on that period of time.

 

[tsav87]

Hopefully 2018 is the year we find a fool proof cure for these dinos!

My battle with dinos has ended months ago. The method of increased biodeversity and detectable NO3 and PO4 has worked for my tank. Keep up the fight reefers! Happy New Year!

 

[mcarroll]

Hopefully 2018 is the year we find a fool proof cure for these dinos!

My battle with dinos has ended months ago. The method of increased biodeversity and detectable NO3 and PO4 has worked for my tank. Keep up the fight reefers! Happy New Year!

That's great!! Thanks for posting the update and HAPPY NEW YEAR to you too!