Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Lithoman]

I'm not to sure of the method for Coolia my issue was with Ostreopsis dinos..
What size tank do you have and what UV / Watts are you using?

 

[ScottB]

I’ve been battling (mostly coolia) Dinos in my 15 month tank for at least the last 9 months. I’ve tried silicate dosing (which caused a horrendous explosion of pineapple sponges which can reach nuisance level when they’re floating freely and disturbing coral with their spikes), high nutrients around 10 ppm nitrate and 0.15 pm PO4, running UV in the display for around 7 months, siphoning the sand, vibrant, stopping amino acid dosing, disturbing the sand bed, not disturbing the sand bed, blackouts, removing my chaeto fuge, running carbon the whole time... but they still come back within a week of knocking them back.

I’ve done every method for a minimum of a month and many of them concurrently (such as UV). I would love any suggestions for what I might have missed in my attempts.

Dang, that is quite the battle. And I thought i struggled. Sorry.

So you were able to set the back for a week at max before they returned. Did you ever restart aminos? Aminos gave me relapses at least once.

What was the most effective combination that gave you a week?

Not that I am actively recommending, but have you tried the H2O2 method yet? (1ml per 10G every night after lights out.)
I know a couple guys swear by it, but not sure which species they had. Maybe @vetteguy53081 used it against.... procentrum I think.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Dang, that is quite the battle. And I thought i struggled. Sorry.

So you were able to set the back for a week at max before they returned. Did you ever restart aminos? Aminos gave me relapses at least once.

What was the most effective combination that gave you a week?

Not that I am actively recommending, but have you tried the H2O2 method yet? (1ml per 10G every night after lights out.)
I know a couple guys swear by it, but not sure which species they had. Maybe @vetteguy53081 used it against.... procentrum I think.

Not AFTER lights out. Lights must be off at least 3 days (known as blackout period)

 

[AaronFReef]

I'm not to sure of the method for Coolia my issue was with Ostreopsis dinos..
What size tank do you have and what UV / Watts are you using?

The tank is 24x24x12 with an identical sized sump. So roughly 35g of water after rocks and sump heights. I have run a Jebao 55w UV until it began to disintegrate into my tank and then began using a 15w Aqua. Both were plumbed with a Cobalt MJ600 (160 gph) which is slow enough to be plenty of exposure for both of those and fast enough to cycle the entire water volume many times an hour IIRC.

Dang, that is quite the battle. And I thought i struggled. Sorry.

So you were able to set the back for a week at max before they returned. Did you ever restart aminos? Aminos gave me relapses at least once.

What was the most effective combination that gave you a week?

Not that I am actively recommending, but have you tried the H2O2 method yet? (1ml per 10G every night after lights out.)
I know a couple guys swear by it, but not sure which species they had. Maybe @vetteguy53081 used it against.... procentrum I think.

I did try H2O2 early on. That may have been my first attempt before I had IDed them. The first strain I had was (much earlier in this thread) I believe IDed as amphidinium and the H2O2 (morning doses daily I think was the protocol I followed) didn’t help but the UV knocked them out completely and they stayed away for a month or so before being replaced by coolia when my phosphates got low while away for a week. So I suppose that was the longest gap. That was July to August of last year. I was running the bazooka Jebao at the time. These coolia have always seemed completely indifferent to UV.

 

[ScottB]

The tank is 24x24x12 with an identical sized sump. So roughly 35g of water after rocks and sump heights. I have run a Jebao 55w UV until it began to disintegrate into my tank and then began using a 15w Aqua. Both were plumbed with a Cobalt MJ600 (160 gph) which is slow enough to be plenty of exposure for both of those and fast enough to cycle the entire water volume many times an hour IIRC.


I did try H2O2 early on. That may have been my first attempt before I had IDed them. The first strain I had was (much earlier in this thread) I believe IDed as amphidinium and the H2O2 (morning doses daily I think was the protocol I followed) didn’t help but the UV knocked them out completely and they stayed away for a month or so before being replaced by coolia when my phosphates got low while away for a week. So I suppose that was the longest gap. That was July to August of last year. I was running the bazooka Jebao at the time. These coolia have always seemed completely indifferent to UV.

Hmmm. Puzzling. Is there any chance that the ID's got reversed? Amphids stay locked in the sand typically and coolia swim free after dark and get zapped typically. Honestly, I don't even know if we have a consistent fix on Amphids except adding Si to the dosing regimen to get diatoms in the competitive mix. And lastly, removing the sandbed altogether seemed to get them out (for @dwest anyway).

Is your present infestation in the sand? Or did you pull that already?

 

[AaronFReef]

Hmmm. Puzzling. Is there any chance that the ID's got reversed? Amphids stay locked in the sand typically and coolia swim free after dark and get zapped typically. Honestly, I don't even know if we have a consistent fix on Amphids except adding Si to the dosing regimen to get diatoms in the competitive mix. And lastly, removing the sandbed altogether seemed to get them out (for @dwest anyway).

Is your present infestation in the sand? Or did you pull that already?

Pardon me they were ostreopsis the first time. They bloomed after I dosed H2O2 for my cyano infestation. Got my timeline mixed up there. I had to go back to posts in this thread from June and July of last year and had been lazy

My current ones live on the sand after lights on and dissipate into the water in dark.

 

[Gildo]

I would like to share some of my impressions.

UV lamps that are equipped with PL type lamps (jeabo and many others) are less efficient, the 1w 3 gallon ratio is not good.

with this type of 36W lamp on 250 liters of tub they were poorly functioning with ostreoptis, I saw results with 2x36W using PL lamps (on 250 liters)
I believe that the PL lamp is less efficient than the other lamps.

Another trigger could be an excess of light!

I on my tank of only 250 liters (I think they are 66 gallons) mounted T5 54Wx8 when it was not yet ripe ... I think it was a big mistake, which together with the rest generated the problem!

 

[drawman]

Along those lines I'm curious on lighting. I think I'm running my radions a touch on the weak side so I was going to raise the intensity as well as red/green (running at 5%/10% currently). Anyone notice issues with ostreopsis blooms while increasing intensity?

 

[ScottB]

I would like to share some of my impressions.

UV lamps that are equipped with PL type lamps (jeabo and many others) are less efficient, the 1w 3 gallon ratio is not good.

with this type of 36W lamp on 250 liters of tub they were poorly functioning with ostreoptis, I saw results with 2x36W using PL lamps (on 250 liters)
I believe that the PL lamp is less efficient than the other lamps.

Another trigger could be an excess of light!

I on my tank of only 250 liters (I think they are 66 gallons) mounted T5 54Wx8 when it was not yet ripe ... I think it was a big mistake, which together with the rest generated the problem!

I have seen this mentioned before but I don't technically know the difference in the lamps, nor which UVs use which lamps. I know the AquaUV fixture is popular and effective when sized correctly. Also, even the cheapy Green Killing Machine seems to work (right sized) for smaller tanks.

Along those lines I'm curious on lighting. I think I'm running my radions a touch on the weak side so I was going to raise the intensity as well as red/green (running at 5%/10% currently). Anyone notice issues with ostreopsis blooms while increasing intensity?

I don't have even much anecdotal evidence to prove/disprove this theory but will share a thought:

In many places (BRS, Red Sea, Kessil, etc) it is mentioned that the Red and Green spectrums tend to grow algae faster than the blues/other. In the fight against dinos, we are often trying to get algal and other competitors a fighting chance. In the fight against nuisance algae, we are zeroing out Red & Green... hmmmm.... perhaps "unbalanced" spectrum is contributing to our dino woes.

A supporting story perhaps: I have 3 frag tanks all tied together.
- Two of them run Hybrid LED & Blue Plus T5. Peak 400 PAR.
- One of them runs 6 bulb T5 mixed spectrum (blue, Coral plus, actinic, purple) Peak 325 PAR.

The T5 tank has barely had any visible dinos. I know they are there, but they seem to practise proper social distancing.

 

[drawman]

I have seen this mentioned before but I don't technically know the difference in the lamps, nor which UVs use which lamps. I know the AquaUV fixture is popular and effective when sized correctly. Also, even the cheapy Green Killing Machine seems to work (right sized) for smaller tanks.



I don't have even much anecdotal evidence to prove/disprove this theory but will share a thought:

In many places (BRS, Red Sea, Kessil, etc) it is mentioned that the Red and Green spectrums tend to grow algae faster than the blues/other. In the fight against dinos, we are often trying to get algal and other competitors a fighting chance. In the fight against nuisance algae, we are zeroing out Red & Green... hmmmm.... perhaps "unbalanced" spectrum is contributing to our dino woes.

A supporting story perhaps: I have 3 frag tanks all tied together.
- Two of them run Hybrid LED & Blue Plus T5. Peak 400 PAR.
- One of them runs 6 bulb T5 mixed spectrum (blue, Coral plus, actinic, purple) Peak 325 PAR.

The T5 tank has barely had any visible dinos. I know they are there, but they seem to practise proper social distancing.

I just tweaked my radion schedule today but I have noticed a trace of dinos popping up again (I had stopped running my UV the last few weeks) over the last week so I'm not sure my reporting will carry much weight either way. I was very low on reds/greens (5%/10%) and I raised them to 10%/17% respectively. Also doing a 3 week ramp up on intensity as I was pretty low on PAR. I'll still try to report good or bad. Either way I grow turf algae way too well it's a strain that my yellow tang and CUC don't really seem to like or take care of (urchins, trochus and turbo snails, and scarlet hermits).

As of last night I'm running my UV again over night and may consider moving it to the sump to run 24/7. @ScottB are you running yours in the sump now or still in the display?

 

[taricha]

In many places (BRS, Red Sea, Kessil, etc) it is mentioned that the Red and Green spectrums tend to grow algae faster than the blues/other. In the fight against dinos, we are often trying to get algal and other competitors a fighting chance. In the fight against nuisance algae, we are zeroing out Red & Green... hmmmm.... perhaps "unbalanced" spectrum is contributing to our dino woes.

A supporting story perhaps: I have 3 frag tanks all tied together.
- Two of them run Hybrid LED & Blue Plus T5. Peak 400 PAR.
- One of them runs 6 bulb T5 mixed spectrum (blue, Coral plus, actinic, purple) Peak 325 PAR.

Here's a measurement attempt I did of absorbance spectrum for dinos and chaetomorpha. granted, the dinos are symbiotic zooxanthellae out of a kenya tree coral, but the pigment sets ought to be similar for zoox and our problem dinos.

The dinos are powered by so much Chlorophyll C that they have a very unbalanced Blue - Red absorbance. very little in the red.
the green algae's Chlorophyll A & B provide a wide and strong Red end absorbance.

Does this mean that we should crank up red light when fighting dinos? Maybe, but not necessarily. Some evidence that corals suffer under strong red light too, so I don't know that this is an exploitable difference. It is a difference though! and might be worth pursuing.

 

[Dsantamaria29]

Anyone ever seen an INCREASE in alkalinity consumption when experiencing Dino growth? I noticed a month back after getting rid of small cell amphidinium I had to cut down on my alkalinity 2 part. Now I started seeing Dinos again and my alkalinity usage increased....and by increased I mean almost doubled.

 

[ScottB]

I just tweaked my radion schedule today but I have noticed a trace of dinos popping up again (I had stopped running my UV the last few weeks) over the last week so I'm not sure my reporting will carry much weight either way. I was very low on reds/greens (5%/10%) and I raised them to 10%/17% respectively. Also doing a 3 week ramp up on intensity as I was pretty low on PAR. I'll still try to report good or bad. Either way I grow turf algae way too well it's a strain that my yellow tang and CUC don't really seem to like or take care of (urchins, trochus and turbo snails, and scarlet hermits).

As of last night I'm running my UV again over night and may consider moving it to the sump to run 24/7. @ScottB are you running yours in the sump now or still in the display?

Hate that trade off between nutrient/algae/dino. Just wierd that they coexist so frequently and I don't have a clear balance remedy for that. I have not had to solve for that somehow so cannot advise well there. Sorry.

But to answer the question: Yes, bring out the bazooka again for the display. I had to run again (after drunkenly dosing aminos) for another two weeks. High nutrient is simply not sustainable as it invites other nuisance problems eventually. Keep running UV as long as you see dinos.

Since dinos departed (2nd or third go), my UV has been on the shelf, but I have no bias against running in the sump. My pod population seems fine. I did end up adding a bunch of old rock from my display into the sumps of my affected frag tanks. It is just so hard to separate what was most effective. UV? Nutrient? Bacteria from old rock? Other?

 

[RyanHoan]

Has anyone dealt with Dinos and NOT experience a change in Alkalinity consumption?

Mine has been steady.

Been dosing phosphorus for two days and it's still undetectable too, but all my corals look great!

Nitrogen is still being delivered. Come on amazon!

 

[DTz]

Has anyone dealt with Dinos and NOT experience a change in Alkalinity consumption?

Mine has been steady.

Been dosing phosphorus for two days and it's still undetectable too, but all my corals look great!

Nitrogen is still being delivered. Come on amazon!

I've got dinos + gha all over my rock and sand, yet all my sps are doing really well. Great pe colour + growth. My snails and sand shifting stars are all alive. Head scratch

 

[RyanHoan]

I've got dinos + gha all over my rock and sand, yet all my sps are doing really well. Great pe colour + growth. My snails and sand shifting stars are all alive. Head scratch

same man, same. My only death has been a cleaner shrimp.

 

[Dsantamaria29]

I had dinos earlier and was having to add ~40 mL/day to keep my dkh at 8.6 (trident controlled DOS) got rid of Dinos with UV (small cell amph) and had to drop my dosing to ~15 mL. Now dinos came back and my alk consumption is up to the 40 mL area again. Got pretty good PE going on too...maybe what makes dinos happy also makes SPS happy....

 

[drawman]

I've got dinos + gha all over my rock and sand, yet all my sps are doing really well. Great pe colour + growth. My snails and sand shifting stars are all alive. Head scratch

Have you identified what kind of dinos? Certain ones seem to be worse for toxins ie Ostreopsis.

 

[DTz]

Have you identified what kind of dinos? Certain ones seem to be worse for toxins ie Ostreopsis.

i couldnt get a clear pic on the microscope. but judging by its nature( gone when lights off) i assume its Ostreopsis.

it was getting when i started feeding reef roids everyday to get the nutrients up. then made a mistkae to start dosing amino again. it came back

 

[drawman]

i couldnt get a clear pic on the microscope. but judging by its nature( gone when lights off) i assume its Ostreopsis.

it was getting when i started feeding reef roids everyday to get the nutrients up. then made a mistkae to start dosing amino again. it came back

Could you see well yourself in the microscope? If they look like sesame seeds you're probably right. Either way nice that the toxins are low!