DIY Balling Method Recipe

[Miami Reef]

One question for a heathen in the UK with no standardised cup measurements; Did we settle on how many grams of Epsom Salt there are in 3/4 Cups?

I’ll get it measured and weighed out for you later today. :)

 

[Freenow54]

Thanks for tidying this up into a new thread. Love the idea of mixing the Balling and Magnesium parts.

One question for a heathen in the UK with no standardised cup measurements; Did we settle on how many grams of Epsom Salt there are in 3/4 Cups?

Our Imperial cups or American cups?

 

[Freenow54]

I’ll get it measured and weighed out for you later today. :)

US cup X236.41 will give you grams. 3/4 US cup is 180.3075 grams.

 

[Freenow54]

US cup X236.41 will give you grams. 3/4 US cup is 180.3075 grams.

sorry doing it by hand actually 177.3075 grams

 

[Garf]

sorry doing it by hand actually 177.3075 grams

Magnesium sulfate is heavier than water, by a lot. Which makes a difference.

 

[Freenow54]

Magnesium sulfate is heavier than water, by a lot. Which makes a difference.

We are talking volume my friend a cup of lead is heavier than a cup of feathers but its still a cup however a ton of feathers has way more volume than a ton of lead

 

[rishma]

I’m confused.

You would need to know density (mass/volume) to determine the mass of a given volume. The density would be material specific.

Or @Miami Reef will kindly weigh the requested volume and provide a mass.

 

[Garf]

We are talking volume my friend a cup of lead is heavier than a cup of feathers but its still a cup however a ton of feathers has way more volume than a ton of lead

The question was how many grammes. This is why us simple folk get confused about American cup measurements, lol. When converting cups, to mass, the 7.75 cups of magnesium chloride equates to about 2800 grammes per US gallon mixed with 470 grammes of magnesium sulfate (0.75 US cups).

Edit - I expect a lot of air gaps are being measured with the US system.

 

[Freenow54]

I’m confused.

You would need to know density (mass/volume) to determine the mass of a given volume. The density would be material specific.

Or @Miami Reef will kindly weigh the requested volume and provide a mass.

They only asked for a volume conversion no one was talking about density. Maybe they are wanting a different value for what you are talking about I did not read entire thread but that's what they wanted its straightforward. Ie a gallon US of gas equals X Liters here. Or in the old days an Imperial gallon is larger than a US Gallon. Its just volume

 

[Freenow54]

Yup I am wrong sorry wasn't asking for a volume conversion

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for tidying this up into a new thread. Love the idea of mixing the Balling and Magnesium parts.

One question for a heathen in the UK with no standardised cup measurements; Did we settle on how many grams of Epsom Salt there are in 3/4 Cups?

8 cups is about 64 ounces (28.3 g = 1 ounce). That’s what the recipe is based on.

 

[Miami Reef]

8 cups is about 64 ounces (28.3 g = 1 ounce). That’s what the recipe is based on.

Can we use this information to determine how many grams 3/4 cups of magnesium sulfate heptahydrate weighs?

I was thinking of weighing it out for those who prefer grams over cup measurements. Would that be accurate?

 

[mikst]

Can we use this information to determine how many grams 3/4 cups of magnesium sulfate heptahydrate weighs?

I was thinking of weighing it out for those who prefer grams over cup measurements. Would that be accurate?

I massed 3/4 us cups of "magnesium sulfate" purchased in bulk from a fish store at 144 grams.
I massed 3/4 us cups of food grade Epsom salt, 126 grams.

I'm pretty sure hydration level and crystal size will impact the mass per volume. Randy built the recipe to be ~10:1 magnesium chloride (1285g) to magnesium sulfate (124 grams).

Your mileage (or kilometerage) may vary based on the density of your mag sulfate.

 

[Garf]

I massed 3/4 us cups of "magnesium sulfate" purchased in bulk from a fish store at 144 grams.
I massed 3/4 us cups of food grade Epsom salt, 126 grams.

I'm pretty sure hydration level and crystal size will impact the mass per volume. Randy built the recipe to be ~10:1 magnesium chloride (1285g) to magnesium sulfate (124 grams).

Your mileage (or kilometerage) may vary based on the density of your mag sulfate.

340g chloride and 34g sulfate to make 1 litre sounds about right.

 

[mikst]

So, I'm playing with numbers again. I was just curious about the salinity creep when using two-part dosing.

If we presume a daily average consumption of 18-20ppm calcium and 1 meq/L (2.8dKH) alkalinity or 7ppm Ca/ 1.0dKH alkalinity per Randy's article...(https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-a...-calcium-system-works-and-why-it-matters.958/), your salinity ends up creeping by ~0.02ppt per day, ~0.63ppt per month.

Let's play with a 100L tank. You start with 35.00 ppt and at the end of the month you have 35.63.

Using Randy's nice simple formula for how much saltwater you need to remove and replace with freshwater from this thread (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lowering-salinity-mixing-calculation.1098235/post-13361144)

Tank volume - (desired salinity / current salinity * tank volume) = volume to replace

100 - (35 / 35.63 * 100) = 100 - 98.23 = 1.76L of SW needing to be replaced by FW per month.
Alternately, 100 - (35 / 35.02 * 100) = 0.057L = 57mL of SW needing to be replaced by FW per day.

If you're a regular water change kinda person, I imagine you can just go about your business and make minor corrections to salinity when mixing saltwater. However, if you're a no WC unless it's totally needed person, salinity creep is/would be a concern eventually.

In a 100 L ~ 26gallon aquarium, 57mL a day seems like the amount that one would extract from their skimmer if they have it set for a fairly wet skim. Am I off base there?

Clearly, daily salinity creep of 0.02 is beyond the tolerance of a common refractometer, but 0.6 is something that can be tested for.

Or if you don't have/use a skimmer, dipping 400mL / 13.5floz out and topping with freshwater weekly seems pretty darn doable.

 

[Freenow54]

So, I'm playing with numbers again. I was just curious about the salinity creep when using two-part dosing.

If we presume a daily average consumption of 18-20ppm calcium and 1 meq/L (2.8dKH) alkalinity or 7ppm Ca/ 1.0dKH alkalinity per Randy's article...(https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-a...-calcium-system-works-and-why-it-matters.958/), your salinity ends up creeping by ~0.02ppt per day, ~0.63ppt per month.

Let's play with a 100L tank. You start with 35.00 ppt and at the end of the month you have 35.63.

Using Randy's nice simple formula for how much saltwater you need to remove and replace with freshwater from this thread (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lowering-salinity-mixing-calculation.1098235/post-13361144)

Tank volume - (desired salinity / current salinity * tank volume) = volume to replace

100 - (35 / 35.63 * 100) = 100 - 98.23 = 1.76L of SW needing to be replaced by FW per month.
Alternately, 100 - (35 / 35.02 * 100) = 0.057L = 57mL of SW needing to be replaced by FW per day.

If you're a regular water change kinda person, I imagine you can just go about your business and make minor corrections to salinity when mixing saltwater. However, if you're a no WC unless it's totally needed person, salinity creep is/would be a concern eventually.

In a 100 L ~ 26gallon aquarium, 57mL a day seems like the amount that one would extract from their skimmer if they have it set for a fairly wet skim. Am I off base there?

Clearly, daily salinity creep of 0.02 is beyond the tolerance of a common refractometer, but 0.6 is something that can be tested for.

Or if you don't have/use a skimmer, dipping 400mL / 13.5floz out and topping with freshwater weekly seems pretty darn doable.

I for some reason thought evaporation just lowered the fresh water amount, and salt creep was just that. Not really a huge amount I thought I was only doing weekly changes sometimes week and a half the salinity was quite high on a just curious test. I now pay closer attention to it. Especially now I am adding Coral. Fish are quite more resilient I have found coral are like the canary in the mine

 

[KStatefan]

So, I'm playing with numbers again. I was just curious about the salinity creep when using two-part dosing.

If we presume a daily average consumption of 18-20ppm calcium and 1 meq/L (2.8dKH) alkalinity or 7ppm Ca/ 1.0dKH alkalinity per Randy's article...(https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-a...-calcium-system-works-and-why-it-matters.958/), your salinity ends up creeping by ~0.02ppt per day, ~0.63ppt per month.

Let's play with a 100L tank. You start with 35.00 ppt and at the end of the month you have 35.63.

Using Randy's nice simple formula for how much saltwater you need to remove and replace with freshwater from this thread (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lowering-salinity-mixing-calculation.1098235/post-13361144)

Tank volume - (desired salinity / current salinity * tank volume) = volume to replace

100 - (35 / 35.63 * 100) = 100 - 98.23 = 1.76L of SW needing to be replaced by FW per month.
Alternately, 100 - (35 / 35.02 * 100) = 0.057L = 57mL of SW needing to be replaced by FW per day.

If you're a regular water change kinda person, I imagine you can just go about your business and make minor corrections to salinity when mixing saltwater. However, if you're a no WC unless it's totally needed person, salinity creep is/would be a concern eventually.

In a 100 L ~ 26gallon aquarium, 57mL a day seems like the amount that one would extract from their skimmer if they have it set for a fairly wet skim. Am I off base there?

Clearly, daily salinity creep of 0.02 is beyond the tolerance of a common refractometer, but 0.6 is something that can be tested for.

Or if you don't have/use a skimmer, dipping 400mL / 13.5floz out and topping with freshwater weekly seems pretty darn doable.

I had not looked at the math yet but was planning on when I start dosing this but from this it looks like I need to take out 0.2 liters more than I replace per day with my auto water change for every 1 dkh I add in my 100 gallon tank.

 

[mikst]

I for some reason thought evaporation just lowered the fresh water amount, and salt creep was just that. Not really a huge amount I thought I was only doing weekly changes sometimes week and a half the salinity was quite high on a just curious test. I now pay closer attention to it. Especially now I am adding Coral. Fish are quite more resilient I have found coral are like the canary in the mine

Evap does affect only the h2o, it leaves salts and doc behind. Salt creep is just salt water that splashed up into skemthing and evaporated, leaving salts behind. The two part dosing salinity creep is something else entirely.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can we use this information to determine how many grams 3/4 cups of magnesium sulfate heptahydrate weighs?

I was thinking of weighing it out for those who prefer grams over cup measurements. Would that be accurate?

The exact weight per volume ratio will depend a bit on the brand since it depends on the particle size distribution. If you weigh it, you may get a better number than I did.

When I first devised the recipe, I bought 64 ounces at the store and measured it to be 8 cups. I do not recall if I weighed it or not. I would have had to have done it at work, but might have.

The thing about magnesium supplements and the chloride to sulfate ratio is that it's not at all critical. If it is off by 10%, no one is going to notice. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm pretty sure hydration level and crystal size will impact the mass per volume.

Yes, :)