DIY RUFG question & input

[Island Reef 242]

Hello all, I am setting up a RUGF (Reverse Under Gravel Filter) in a 75g display tank. I will also have a display refugium and a cryptic zone / place for mud in my sump. This is all the filtration I have planned. My question is about the flow in the RUGF.

I have a MJ400 pushing 150gph into a 1/2" pipe that will go under the egg crate, which will have screen on top. I will drill holes in the pipe under the egg crate to create a spray bar. Now, I understand water will take the path of least resistance, but what I am unsure of is whether the holes in the spray bar should all be the same size or should they be going small to big or big to small to insure water comes out of every hole along the spray bar.

@Subsea, @Paul B, I hope you don't mind me tagging you. I have a lot of respect for both of you and the way you reef. I have enjoyed, and learned a lot, reading your threads. I know that you both know a thing or two about RUGF. I would appreciate any feed back or input you, and anyone else may have about my DIY RUFG.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[MnFish1]

You asked for comments - I'm sure @Paul B and @Subsea will weigh in - but it might make sense to have 2 pumps running? (i.e. one from each side) 15 gph does not seem like a lot - if thats all you're going to have - for a 75 gallon tank. If you are going to use a spray bar - I'm assuming the 'holes' will be pointed to the sides as compared to straight up - to better diffuse the water? - at least that would be my suggestion. To determine the flow - I would hook up your pump(s) - drill some holes in the end of the pipe first - then keep drilling at intervals - until you get to the point when its even all the way through. I.e. drill 3 holes in the middle (or the far end) if you're using one pump - then drill 3 in the middle - and 3 at the start. then at intervals keep drilling until you see the far holes losing some flow. Another suggestion - drill the holes closest to the pump smaller than the ones further down. I have used all of these methods. I have never used one pump and one pipe - good luck!

 

[MnFish1]

You asked for comments - I'm sure @Paul B and @Subsea will weigh in - but it might make sense to have 2 pumps running? (i.e. one from each side) 15 gph does not seem like a lot - if thats all you're going to have - for a 75 gallon tank. If you are going to use a spray bar - I'm assuming the 'holes' will be pointed to the sides as compared to straight up - to better diffuse the water? - at least that would be my suggestion. To determine the flow - I would hook up your pump(s) - drill some holes in the end of the pipe first - then keep drilling at intervals - until you get to the point when its even all the way through. I.e. drill 3 holes in the middle (or the far end) if you're using one pump - then drill 3 in the middle - and 3 at the start. then at intervals keep drilling until you see the far holes losing some flow. Another suggestion - drill the holes closest to the pump smaller than the ones further down. I have used all of these methods. I have never used one pump and one pipe - good luck!

PS - another thing I thought of - lets say you just put the holes 'on the top' of the pipe. You will end up (it would seem to me) - with a kind of gyre effect - with most of the water flowing up in the middle - and that flow will suck water from the sides down through the gravel instead of an even flow up - its this kind of situation I think you will want to avoid - no matter how you do the holes.

 

[Island Reef 242]

You asked for comments - I'm sure @Paul B and @Subsea will weigh in - but it might make sense to have 2 pumps running? (i.e. one from each side) 15 gph does not seem like a lot - if thats all you're going to have - for a 75 gallon tank. If you are going to use a spray bar - I'm assuming the 'holes' will be pointed to the sides as compared to straight up - to better diffuse the water? - at least that would be my suggestion. To determine the flow - I would hook up your pump(s) - drill some holes in the end of the pipe first - then keep drilling at intervals - until you get to the point when its even all the way through. I.e. drill 3 holes in the middle (or the far end) if you're using one pump - then drill 3 in the middle - and 3 at the start. then at intervals keep drilling until you see the far holes losing some flow. Another suggestion - drill the holes closest to the pump smaller than the ones further down. I have used all of these methods. I have never used one pump and one pipe - good luck!

Thanks for the response. sorry about the typo, is is 150 gph. and yes I will have the holes on ether side of the spray bar, the pic I showed has a blue line showing the supposed way the water will flow. Thanks for the advice, I might have to do some experiments with different size holes and placements to find the best solution.

 

[Subsea]

Hello all, I am setting up a RUGF (Reverse Under Gravel Filter) in a 75g display tank. I will also have a display refugium and a cryptic zone / place for mud in my sump. This is all the filtration I have planned. My question is about the flow in the RUGF.

I have a MJ400 pushing 15gph into a 1/2" pipe that will go under the egg crate, which will have screen on top. I will drill holes in the pipe under the egg crate to create a spray bar. Now, I understand water will take the path of least resistance, but what I am unsure of is whether the holes in the spray bar should all be the same size or should they be going small to big or big to small to insure water comes out of every hole along the spray bar.

@Subsea, @Paul B, I hope you don't mind me tagging you. I have a lot of respect for both of you and the way you reef. I have enjoyed, and learned a lot, reading your threads. I know that you both know a thing or two about RUGF. I would appreciate any feed back or input you, and anyone else may have about my DIY RUFG.

Thanks,
Chris

Chris,
Initially, I suggested spacing holes evenly the full length of the bar. If pipe is 1/2” diameter than four 1/4” holes would give you even pressure at each hole.

However, because of biological growth, I suggest no small holes. Leave open ended pipe in the middle of void space.

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks for the response. sorry about the typo, is is 150 gph. and yes I will have the holes on ether side of the spray bar, the pic I showed has a blue line showing the supposed way the water will flow. Thanks for the advice, I might have to do some experiments with different size holes and placements to find the best solution.

That sounds more like it lol. I didnt see the blue lines

 

[MnFish1]

Chris,
Initially, I suggested spacing holes evenly the full length of the bar. If pipe is 1/2” diameter than four 1/8” holes would give you even pressure at each hole.

However, because of biological growth, I suggest no small holes. Leave open ended pipe in the middle of void space.

I'm curious - if you leave open ended pipe - how would you be able to tell - for example if one of the holes did get plugged? couldn't it eventually be that all of the water goes out the open ended pipe (or maybe I'm misunderstanding)? I assume that it would not be common to take the system out to check it so I'm just curious how one would know?

 

[Island Reef 242]

Chris,
Initially, I suggested spacing holes evenly the full length of the bar. If pipe is 1/2” diameter than four 1/8” holes would give you even pressure at each hole.

However, because of biological growth, I suggest no small holes. Leave open ended pipe in the middle of void space.

Thanks, I didn't think about biological growth on the pipe. How about if I had the pipe end in the middle and have a T on the end so the water will be pushed to either side of the tank. My only concern with this is that there will be stagnant places in the corners. If you don't think this will be a problem then I might go that route.

 

[Subsea]

I'm curious - if you leave open ended pipe - how would you be able to tell - for example if one of the holes did get plugged? couldn't it eventually be that all of the water goes out the open ended pipe (or maybe I'm misunderstanding)? I assume that it would not be common to take the system out to check it so I'm just curious how one would know?

Let’s keep this simple. Void under sandbed requires a slight positive pressure of oxygen rich water to move up thru substrate assisting with oxidation chemistry. Open ended flow provides that positive pressure. No small holes to fowl up.

 

[Subsea]

Thanks, I didn't think about biological growth on the pipe. How about if I had the pipe end in the middle and have a T on the end so the water will be pushed to either side of the tank. My only concern with this is that there will be stagnant places in the corners. If you don't think this will be a problem then I might go that route.

Stagnant in a cryptic refugium is not a bad thing. The tee is a good idea because you just doubled the discharge opening area.

I operated a Jaubert Plenumn with a dsb for 20 years until I converted to reverse flow 3 years ago.

 

[Subsea]

Chris,
I just read your meet & greet thread and I must say you may be an addicted reefer. Please start a tank thread so that I can follow your build. I am somewhat jealous of your backyard view and ability to collect. I really like your wording of observation tank as opposed to quarantine.

I like your system design concept of incorporating cryptic zones and display refugiums. I do consider the void space under rugf as a cryptic refugium. Because of the large oxygen consumption of sandbed, you should consider an uninterrupted power supply for that pump.

 

[Island Reef 242]

Chris,
I just read your meet & greet thread and I must say you may be an addicted reefer. Please start a tank thread so that I can follow your build. I am somewhat jealous of your backyard view and ability to collect. I really like your wording of observation tank as opposed to quarantine.

I like your system design concept of incorporating cryptic zones and display refugiums. I do consider the void space under rugf as a cryptic refugium. Because of the large oxygen consumption of sandbed, you should consider an uninterrupted power supply for that pump.

Thanks, I am defiantly addicted to salt water.
I do have a build thread for my 20g that I started, 2 years ago now, "here", I have not updated it in a while, it is going real well now, I will update it as soon as I get home, if I remember.

As soon as I finish putting together the 75g, which should be soon, and put water in it, I will start a thread for that one.

By the way I really like the colors in your tank. I got a really cool yellow sponge a couple months ago that seems to be doing well, will have to show you a pic later,