Do Algae Reactors Work, And Worth It?

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Forsaken77

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Hello, I have a couple of suggestions for a DIY algae reactor.

I would not try to run one of these without cooling the LED's. Those light strips you guys use don't offer much, so you are asking for excess heat, damage, maybe even safety. They are meant to be "stuck" to something, which gives them some degree of cooling even if it is not really heat conductive like metal. But wrapping them around provides none.

If you go with the "coaxial" design like the ARID, heat pipes are actually hard to make (but I have seen it done). Instead, you could use an off-the-shelf CPU water cooler (such as https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103236), and just run the water through the metal tube in the center. Then you just locate the radiator somewhere with good airflow, and/or put a fan on it. The only downside is you need a small circulation pump (that comes with it) so it is not a passive solution. But people in this hobby have lots of experience with pumps ;-)

IF you are going to go with wrapping the LED's around the outside way, here is an idea for that. Those LED's already come with an adhesive backing, all you need to do is stick some of these tiny heatsinks behind the LEDs: http://koolance.com/video-ram-heat-sinks. These are also self adhesive, but you can get one's that are not, and some of them even use thermal adhesive pads that conduct heat better.

This does not solve all the problems, but I wanted to share this for the cooling issue.

-JCL

Just wanted to be clear... I do not own an ARID reactor. I just talked to the owner on YouTube and he gave some helpful advice, such as reflective surfaces for the light to bounce back, ect...

The algae we're using is an underwater species of macro algae plant, thus the submersion of the algae. You were suggesting to grow it like a hydroponic setup, correct? Micro algae can grow like that via a turf scrubber, but also adheres to the surface. Chaetomorpha algae, which is what is used in these reactors, doesn't grow onto a surface like micro algae does. It's just spaghetti algae in a ball and makes a huge mess when you have to trim it. The reactor helps contain that mess as well. Not to mention if you hypothetically put an air stone in front of the reactors pump, and even if it doesn't damage the pump, you'll probably make the pump much louder at night, and also have the efluent releasing near your return pump which would send bubbles into your tank, unless you release it back to the beginning of the sump. Honestly, no one has done something like that and I couldn't tell you either way if it would provide a benefit in a reactor setting. It almost sounds like putting macro algae in a protein skimmer with lights. But skimmers use much better pumps than the cheap type used for an algae reactor. I also couldn't say whether or not chaeto and air bubbles agree with each other. But someone can always try it out, but you'll probably have a build up of air in the reactor that doesn't escape. Remember, they're not open like a skimmer.

Also having an abundance of CO2 in the tank is a real issue, even with a skimmer running. If your ambient air is CO2 rich, because you have a lot of pets and/or people breathing in the area or a closed off house in the summer with the AC running, then a skimmer is just not going to cut it. Surface water agitation is where your gas exchange happens, and with a CO2 dominant enviornment, you're possibly adding more CO2 than oxygen, depending on your surroundings.

We've moved past wrapping the lights directly onto the reactor because of the heat issue. What some have done is have a big piece of PVC pipe and wrap the inside of the pipe with the led's, then put it over the reactor so there is no direct contact with the reactor. Just passive air flow seems to be enough. A clip on fan at the worst case would be needed.

Another member a few posts up explains that they attached the LEDs to an aluminum housing to use as a heat sink and for its reflective properties, but found it didn't disperse the heat in a way they thought.

You will always have to have a pump to move the water through the reactor with some sort of flow control. You either use a low gph pump or take one you already have and use a ball valve to control the flow through it. The size of the reactor isn't so much sized on the tank, it's more sized on your bio-load and if you have a lot of nitrates and phosphates for the algae to thrive.

Running the reactor on a reverse photo period from the tank provides benefits to both the tank inhabitants and the algae. It will provide a natural way to oxygenate the water at night when everything else is producing CO2, and therefore giving the algae an abundance of CO2 during it's lighting period. This also reduces or stops the Ph swing at night.

So you can have a huge tank with a big reactor, but if there aren't enough nutrients to support the algae to fill the reactor, then you have a bigger reactor than you need and algae will start to die off. Basically if you have algae growing in your display tank, this type of reactor will eventually out compete it, depriving it of nutrients. There are a few different algaes with high nutrient uptake and that is why Chaetomorpha is used (plus it will not adhere to the surfaces of the reactor).

However, if you have a constant flow of nutrients, a bigger reactor would be more appropriate. The algae will keep growing and you'll have to harvest it less often.

The main issue has been finding led's that are consistent and cheap enough. Some don't have the proper resistors and the blue color will burn out, some don't have the proper setup as far as power and are dimmer towards the end, some run very hot, and these issues can all be from the same brand of led's. It's a crap shoot to what you'll get. Others seem to be so expensive that buying a ready made reactor would be more feasible.

And keep in mind that anything you run the water through has to be aquarium safe in that it won't contaminate the water in the tank.
 

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Thank you for the thought-out reply...

Just wanted to be clear... I do not own an ARID reactor. I just talked to the owner on YouTube and he gave some helpful advice, such as reflective surfaces for the light to bounce back, ect...
OK, so you are not interested in one yourself either, I guess it is nice that Pax Bellum was willing to share ;-)

On what I was talking about with alternatives: (snipped for length)
What you describe is not exactly where I was going. I was thinking of aeroponics, where you spray the water onto the plants for the highest possible gas exchange. I don't know if Chaetomorpha would like that, perhaps you would have to use a different species. The point is to accelerate growth with maximum available CO2.

Also having an abundance of CO2 in the tank is a real issue, even with a skimmer running. If your ambient air is CO2 rich, because you have a lot of pets and/or people breathing in the area or a closed off house in the summer with the AC running, then a skimmer is just not going to cut it. Surface water agitation is where your gas exchange happens, and with a CO2 dominant enviornment, you're possibly adding more CO2 than oxygen, depending on your surroundings.
Now that you mention this issue, I may be one of the ones in that situation. Perhaps I should consider bringing air from outside...

We've moved past wrapping the lights directly onto the reactor because of the heat issue. What some have done is have a big piece of PVC pipe and wrap the inside of the pipe with the led's, then put it over the reactor so there is no direct contact with the reactor. Just passive air flow seems to be enough. A clip on fan at the worst case would be needed.
Yep, I saw that. I was just thinking that you still don't have much surface area to dissipate heat into the air that way. Maybe add a layer of aluminum flashing inside the PVC, which would also be rather more reflective of light than even white PVC.

Another member a few posts up explains that they attached the LEDs to an aluminum housing to use as a heat sink and for its reflective properties, but found it didn't disperse the heat in a way they thought.
Yes, I saw that too. It's like the ARID only without the heat pipe or heat sink on top... no-where for the heat to go.

You will always have to have a pump to move the water through the reactor with some sort of flow control. You either use a low gph pump or take one you already have and use a ball valve to control the flow through it. The size of the reactor isn't so much sized on the tank, it's more sized on your bio-load and if you have a lot of nitrates and phosphates for the algae to thrive.
Yes, I am still deciding what pump I would use, or if I would go with a manifold.
I want to try to do high fish load and high feeding load, so I probably will go one size up, my tank is a 135 gallon.

So you can have a huge tank with a big reactor, but if there aren't enough nutrients to support the algae to fill the reactor, then you have a bigger reactor than you need and algae will start to die off. Basically if you have algae growing in your display tank, this type of reactor will eventually out compete it, depriving it of nutrients. There are a few different algaes with high nutrient uptake and that is why Chaetomorpha is used (plus it will not adhere to the surfaces of the reactor).
I am looking at going the dosing route, and this is also where I was going with my wet/dry idea, put all that nitrate output capability to good use.... oh and speaking of gas exchange ;-)

However, if you have a constant flow of nutrients, a bigger reactor would be more appropriate. The algae will keep growing and you'll have to harvest it less often.
This would be great if you could find that right balance.

The main issue has been finding led's that are consistent and cheap enough. Some don't have the proper resistors and the blue color will burn out, some don't have the proper setup as far as power and are dimmer towards the end, some run very hot, and these issues can all be from the same brand of led's. It's a crap shoot to what you'll get. Others seem to be so expensive that buying a ready made reactor would be more feasible.
Yup, I could feel my hair turning (more) grey reading about all of that... probably one of the bigger reasons I am thinking of buying an off-the-shelf vs. DIY, as expensive as they are. At the very least you might want to talk to some of these online shops that only sell LEDs, they might have better one's.

-JCL
 

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@Zephrant
If you're really finding it that difficult to come up with projects for those 16 fans you can always put one in the mail and send it to me this way you only have 15 to worry about :)

I am actually buried in CPU fans at work, we scrap them for cents on the pound all the time, but usually after they are used. These are brand new, they came with CPUs but we could not use them in the server blades, which also came with their own heatsinks.

I'd be happy to send a pair to anyone who wants to pay shipping costs.

jcl, the CPU water cooler is a nice idea, although yet another water system to fail is a negative. I'm hoping that a little active air cooling would be fine. The stick-on heatsinks is a neat idea too, but I'd be afraid they would not last. Looks like you have really done your research. I want one too, but am too cheap to buy it, so DIY it is for me too.

I, too, am a fan of protein skimmers, and will continue to run mine. Not sure how to put the output of my CA reactor in to the algae reactor, think if it only got pH 6.8 water it would fail, but don't currently have a way to mix it in with enough tank water to not drastically reduce the pH.

I don't think you can make one too big- Just don't let it fill with algae and crash of course.

I'm not currently planning on ozone or UV, mostly because I'm cheap and don't want too much equipment that can fail. Let us know how it goes for you if you try ozone with your reactor.
 
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Thank you for the thought-out reply...


OK, so you are not interested in one yourself either, I guess it is nice that Pax Bellum was willing to share ;-)

On what I was talking about with alternatives: (snipped for length)
What you describe is not exactly where I was going. I was thinking of aeroponics, where you spray the water onto the plants for the highest possible gas exchange. I don't know if Chaetomorpha would like that, perhaps you would have to use a different species. The point is to accelerate growth with maximum available CO2.


Now that you mention this issue, I may be one of the ones in that situation. Perhaps I should consider bringing air from outside...


Yep, I saw that. I was just thinking that you still don't have much surface area to dissipate heat into the air that way. Maybe add a layer of aluminum flashing inside the PVC, which would also be rather more reflective of light than even white PVC.


Yes, I saw that too. It's like the ARID only without the heat pipe or heat sink on top... no-where for the heat to go.


Yes, I am still deciding what pump I would use, or if I would go with a manifold.
I want to try to do high fish load and high feeding load, so I probably will go one size up, my tank is a 135 gallon.


I am looking at going the dosing route, and this is also where I was going with my wet/dry idea, put all that nitrate output capability to good use.... oh and speaking of gas exchange ;-)


This would be great if you could find that right balance.


Yup, I could feel my hair turning (more) grey reading about all of that... probably one of the bigger reasons I am thinking of buying an off-the-shelf vs. DIY, as expensive as they are. At the very least you might want to talk to some of these online shops that only sell LEDs, they might have better one's.

-JCL

Accelerating growth isn't always the best course of action. As other in this thread had found out is that artificially grown algae is less nutrient dense than natural algae. Accelerating the process may make it grow faster, but absorb less nutrients in the process. On the other hand, you don't want to get to the point that the algae is sucking up all nutrients and then having to dose NO3 & PO4. That's counter productive imo. You're adding the very thing that you originally were trying to remove on the first place just to keep the algae alive.

Of course I would love an ARID reactor. But the cost for what it is, is not justified to me. This would be used on a 180 gallon tank. So the corresponding model is roughly $750. The ends don't justify the means to me, especially when others have made almost the same thing for around $100 that work. The ARID also has an array of light strings inside it, in addition to the main centrifugal light with heat sink. I could imagine the chaeto getting caught all over those strings, but I haven't inspected one to see how they actually work.

As far as the pump, the ARID guy was suggesting an MJ900 pump. Most people have the 1200 version for other reactors and would just throttle it back some.

What type of tank do you run? A reef, a fish only? Is it new, established? Are you just prepping equipment to buy for the setup?
 

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jcl, the CPU water cooler is a nice idea, although yet another water system to fail is a negative. I'm hoping that a little active air cooling would be fine. The stick-on heatsinks is a neat idea too, but I'd be afraid they would not last. Looks like you have really done your research. I want one too, but am too cheap to buy it, so DIY it is for me too.

Well, for what it is worth, I have a water cooled CPU in my current PC, and it has been going almost non-stop for 5+ years now, if you buy the slightly nicer one's like Corsair, they last a long time. It's closed loop, pretty care-free, I just blow the dust out of the radiator every year or so.

What do you mean the stick-on's would not last? It is a piece of aluminum...

Heh, I am doing my research because it is #@#%#! expensive, hehe...

I, too, am a fan of protein skimmers, and will continue to run mine. Not sure how to put the output of my CA reactor in to the algae reactor, think if it only got pH 6.8 water it would fail, but don't currently have a way to mix it in with enough tank water to not drastically reduce the pH.
The output of a calcium reactor is comparatively small to the algae scrubber, so it is mixing with tank water. If you look at the optional CO2 injection assembly for the ARID, you can see how it works. You could build that really easily with a couple of valves.

I'm not currently planning on ozone or UV, mostly because I'm cheap and don't want too much equipment that can fail. Let us know how it goes for you if you try ozone with your reactor.

Right, I am waiting to hopefully hear from Pax Bellum so they can elaborate on what doom awaits me if I use ozone...

-JCL
 

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Accelerating growth isn't always the best course of action. As other in this thread had found out is that artificially grown algae is less nutrient dense than natural algae. Accelerating the process may make it grow faster, but absorb less nutrients in the process. On the other hand, you don't want to get to the point that the algae is sucking up all nutrients and then having to dose NO3 & PO4. That's counter productive imo. You're adding the very thing that you originally were trying to remove on the first place just to keep the algae alive.
OK, so a couple of things on this.

I have kept freshwater planted aquariums before and used CO2 injection, and the effect is incredible, the growth basically explodes. I did not notice any ill-effects although I was not going for nutrient absorption. Maybe you might see a few deformities because they are growing so fast.

On the dosing... OK, when I first started reading about the ARID and the concept of dosing either NO3 or PO4, I had the same reaction you are having, your going to what? Then, my reaction changed to "holy crap, they found a solution so effective you actually have to dose NO3, that is hard-core".

But, after reading more on why, it is only because it needs all of these things in the right ratio or it will run out. So if it is happily chewing away at your PO4, but it runs out of NO3, it stops and cannot absorb more PO4, and presumably a few other things they propose dosing, and of course light, CO2, etc. So, it is not that you are dumping these things in there just to arbitrarily grow more algae, it's helping you find a balance to keep it going. I think you need to try and balance your feeding and livestock load to try and hit like (I forget) a 10:1 or 20:1 ratio of NO3 to PO4... So 0.04 ppm to say 0.08 ppm PO4, I am making these up, but that is the idea. That is what I am going to do, I want to run a high fish load, and I want to feed them and the corals generously. Things that are all normally no-no's in a reef tank, which is what I think makes it interesting.

Of course I would love an ARID reactor. But the cost for what it is, is not justified to me. This would be used on a 180 gallon tank. So the corresponding model is roughly $750. The ends don't justify the means to me, especially when others have made almost the same thing for around $100 that work. The ARID also has an array of light strings inside it, in addition to the main centrifugal light with heat sink. I could imagine the chaeto getting caught all over those strings, but I haven't inspected one to see how they actually work.
Yup, if this were 20-30 years ago, I would totally agree with you because I have always been a major DIY guy, and I did not historically have much money. But today I have kids, job, I am a landlord, and I have other hobbies. I have also learned the phrase "cry once buy once". It also plays into the goal I am trying to hit.

As far as the pump, the ARID guy was suggesting an MJ900 pump. Most people have the 1200 version for other reactors and would just throttle it back some.
Right, trying to see if I can reduce the number of pumps without trading that for constant valve fiddling....

What type of tank do you run? A reef, a fish only? Is it new, established? Are you just prepping equipment to buy for the setup?
The last one, researching and prepping equipment for a new setup.

Here is my current build thread on my local reef forum:
http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums...35-high-tech-build-in-arlington.158488/page-5
This is the end of the thread on the latest update, which is a little different based on what I have learned since the start of the thread.
We also debate the value of the ARID a bit, with people mostly being quite skeptical, as would be expected.

But basically I am trying to take all the best technology and build an very low maintenance setup, including reducing or eliminating water changes, if I can.

-JCL
 

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In comparison to an algae turf scrubber, it says in the faq that excess CO2 exposure allows for rapid growth, but results in conversion to sugars building up in the system.

That's what algae does: make sugars. More growth = more sugars. That's why there are sugars in natural reefs. The same sugars many people buy and dose such as carbs and vitamin C. Sugars feed everything in the food web.

I always considered protein skimmers primarily for nutrient export

Well, except that skimmers don't export nutrients. They only export food particles.

Other than not being able to process the phosphate, are there any ill effects if you forgot to dose these?

Just feed more. Food particles have a natural balance of nitrogen and phosphorus, which get broken down into the nutrients nitrate and phosphate.

if you hypothetically put an air stone in front of the reactors pump

...you will get, a nice surprise :)

There are a few different algaes with high nutrient uptake and that is why Chaetomorpha is used

Chaeto is a relatively slow nutrient uptake species. I'll be covering this here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chaeto-reactors-compared-to-algae-scrubbers.325964

I was thinking of aeroponics, where you spray the water onto the plants for the highest possible gas exchange. I don't know if Chaetomorpha would like that

Would be a very nice experiment!

I have also learned the phrase "cry once buy once"

First time hearing that one. Have heard "buy cheap, buy twice", and of course the carpenter's saying of "measure twice, cut once"
 

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That's what algae does: make sugars. More growth = more sugars. That's why there are sugars in natural reefs. The same sugars many people buy and dose such as carbs and vitamin C. Sugars feed everything in the food web.

Right. So Pax Bellum's claim is that with their solution these would be removed, but with other solutions they will not, or not as well. But they don't exactly explain how.

Well, except that skimmers don't export nutrients. They only export food particles.

OK fine. It exports stuff like food and poop, before it can turn into nutrients...

Just feed more. Food particles have a natural balance of nitrogen and phosphorus, which get broken down into the nutrients nitrate and phosphate.

I guess depending on what you are using for food. If it were that simple / easy I think people would not be resorting to dosing...

First time hearing that one. Have heard "buy cheap, buy twice", and of course the carpenter's saying of "measure twice, cut once"

Yup. I continue to confirm that I buy some expensive things and end up keeping them while others are on their 4th or 5th cheap one, sometimes spending more than I did on the expensive item. I am cursed with two of the most expensive hobbies... this and home theater.
 
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OK, so a couple of things on this.

I have kept freshwater planted aquariums before and used CO2 injection, and the effect is incredible, the growth basically explodes. I did not notice any ill-effects although I was not going for nutrient absorption. Maybe you might see a few deformities because they are growing so fast.

On the dosing... OK, when I first started reading about the ARID and the concept of dosing either NO3 or PO4, I had the same reaction you are having, your going to what? Then, my reaction changed to "holy crap, they found a solution so effective you actually have to dose NO3, that is hard-core".

But, after reading more on why, it is only because it needs all of these things in the right ratio or it will run out. So if it is happily chewing away at your PO4, but it runs out of NO3, it stops and cannot absorb more PO4, and presumably a few other things they propose dosing, and of course light, CO2, etc. So, it is not that you are dumping these things in there just to arbitrarily grow more algae, it's helping you find a balance to keep it going. I think you need to try and balance your feeding and livestock load to try and hit like (I forget) a 10:1 or 20:1 ratio of NO3 to PO4... So 0.04 ppm to say 0.08 ppm PO4, I am making these up, but that is the idea. That is what I am going to do, I want to run a high fish load, and I want to feed them and the corals generously. Things that are all normally no-no's in a reef tank, which is what I think makes it interesting.


Yup, if this were 20-30 years ago, I would totally agree with you because I have always been a major DIY guy, and I did not historically have much money. But today I have kids, job, I am a landlord, and I have other hobbies. I have also learned the phrase "cry once buy once". It also plays into the goal I am trying to hit.


Right, trying to see if I can reduce the number of pumps without trading that for constant valve fiddling....


The last one, researching and prepping equipment for a new setup.

Here is my current build thread on my local reef forum:
http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums...35-high-tech-build-in-arlington.158488/page-5
This is the end of the thread on the latest update, which is a little different based on what I have learned since the start of the thread.
We also debate the value of the ARID a bit, with people mostly being quite skeptical, as would be expected.

But basically I am trying to take all the best technology and build an very low maintenance setup, including reducing or eliminating water changes, if I can.

-JCL

I buy the expensive stuff where I know it will make a difference, like the skimmer, return pump, Vortech powerheads/Maxspect Gyres for flow, and lighting if you have corals. But more expensive doesn't always mean better in this hobby. You cannot be in this hobby with a large setup and be on a tight budget. Just doesn't work, lol.

The algae reactor is still a newer tech to me and not a necessity, and won't make your tank maintenance free unless you have a smaller system, but it helps. So I rather go the cheap route first to see if it actually makes a difference in a 220 gallon total water volume setup, rather than dropping almost $800 on something that may have little effect and possibly add more maintenance. But I would not start an algae reactor on a new tank anyway. That should be something at least 6 months after the tank is fully stocked to see where your balance will be.

As for you wanting to do a more maintenance free tank, BRS has a whole video series on the Triton Method, where a large refugium basically is your filtration, along with the Triton dosing regiments. BRS actually just started selling Trigger Systems Sumps based on the Triton method, so there's a much larger refugium area. The refugium should be roughly 10% of the display size and they sell 2 models (one for up to 100 gallons and the other up to 200 gallons). So the water goes through the refugium before the skimmer.

They even started this method on their own 160 gallon tank. It's a zero water change system. Might be something for you to look into.
 

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Well, except that skimmers don't export nutrients. They only export food particles.
Not totally accurate; skimmers remove some bacteria, the bacteria have consumed food, so in turn a skimmer does remove more than only food
So Pax Bellum's claim is that with their solution these would be removed
I'm with SM on this one, not sure you would really want to remove sugars? It's like trying to hamstring the natural process of things. I've read some rather lengthy rants elsewhere against the use of algae scrubbers related to sugar production, specifically I recall a rant about the "stupidity" of running an algae scrubber + carbon dosing, something along the lines of a one-two punch causing a huge bacterial issue. Never mind that I haven't heard of that happening, but if you really think about it, an algae scrubber has a potential to encroach upon other filtration methods like carbon dosing and zeo. What I mean is, there is a bacteria-algae relationship, though I'm not sure has been adequately explored as it relates to algae scrubbers specifically. My thoughts on this are that as an algae mat grows, so does the surface area. Bacteria colonize this surface area. When you remove the algae, you remove bacteria too. This might be comparable to zeo where you shake the canister to break away the bacterial biofilm (and then skim it out) so that's where the zeo comparison comes from (albeit one limited to only one aspect). The sugar production is a comparison to carbon dosing, again I'm not sure this has been adequately explored either (as it relates to an algae scrubber)
Just feed more. Food particles have a natural balance of nitrogen and phosphorus, which get broken down into the nutrients nitrate and phosphate.
The difference here is that many systems do not have a balanced system to remove both. Usually, there is a natural mechanism to break down Nitrate (denitrifying bacteria deep in live rock & sand beds) but not one for phosphate, at least not one as effective. There are a phosphate deposition mechanisms such as combining with calcium and depositing on rock surfaces in a crystalling form (which is typically dissolved in an acid bath or by Phosphate Solublizing Bacteria), or soft-layer deposits which are more readily accessible. But they aren't offgassed out like Nitrate/Nitrogen, so over a long term, phosphate can still rise (or worse, it can be masked as absent while it deposits)

Dosing Iron might be the better answer. Let's make this discussion interesting and all sciencey by bringing @jason2459 into the mix ;Nailbiting

My personal feeling (not theory, not belief) is that the classic "old tank syndrome" is a result of waste deposits into rock and sand over a long enough time to saturate them, eventually resulting in a systematic set-point change that is not easily reversible. Aggressively growing lots of coral and pruning/fragging it often allows for new growth to take up these nutrients rather than allowing them to settle into places you don't want them, staving off the syndrome. Attempting to keeping the nutrients out of the system completely, IMO, seems like it's a bit of an act of futility.
 

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I buy the expensive stuff where I know it will make a difference, like the skimmer, return pump, Vortech powerheads/Maxspect Gyres for flow, and lighting if you have corals. But more expensive doesn't always mean better in this hobby. You cannot be in this hobby with a large setup and be on a tight budget. Just doesn't work, lol.

Yup, agreed. I am trying to figure out if the cost increase with size is linear, exponential, or logarithmic ;-)

The algae reactor is still a newer tech to me and not a necessity, and won't make your tank maintenance free unless you have a smaller system, but it helps. So I rather go the cheap route first to see if it actually makes a difference in a 220 gallon total water volume setup, rather than dropping almost $800 on something that may have little effect and possibly add more maintenance. But I would not start an algae reactor on a new tank anyway. That should be something at least 6 months after the tank is fully stocked to see where your balance will be.

Oh yes, I am just researching them so I will ready to add it when the time comes, same thing with a calcium reactor. I will probably try without first to see what my pain threshold is...

But, even if it is only "as good" and an ATS or refugium, (I suspect it is at least slightly better) but it does so in far less space, and with much better aesthetics, that might be enough to justify it for me.

To your other point, yes you could be trading one type of maintenance for another. OK, say you do eliminate water changes, but now instead you are harvesting and cleaning the algae scrubber every two weeks, and doing various dosing and testing. Might be better, might not.

Cost does come into play. Water is comparatively quite expensive where I live, I had to do major work to get my irrigation system for my lawn to sane levels.

If I am making RO/DI water frequently (and I already do for drinking water) , the combined product+waste water can add up, and of course the salt and other additives.

As for you wanting to do a more maintenance free tank, BRS has a whole video series on the Triton Method, where a large refugium basically is your filtration, along with the Triton dosing regiments. BRS actually just started selling Trigger Systems Sumps based on the Triton method, so there's a much larger refugium area. The refugium should be roughly 10% of the display size and they sell 2 models (one for up to 100 gallons and the other up to 200 gallons). So the water goes through the refugium before the skimmer.

They even started this method on their own 160 gallon tank. It's a zero water change system. Might be something for you to look into.

OK, I will definitely check it out, thank you. I was already interested in the Triton method and the DSR method, but I had more research to do. Pax Bellum does say that their reactor is "Triton compliant"...
 

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I'm with SM on this one, not sure you would really want to remove sugars? It's like trying to hamstring the natural process of things. I've read some rather lengthy rants elsewhere against the use of algae scrubbers related to sugar production, specifically I recall a rant about the "stupidity" of running an algae scrubber + carbon dosing, something along the lines of a one-two punch causing a huge bacterial issue. Never mind that I haven't heard of that happening, but if you really think about it, an algae scrubber has a potential to encroach upon other filtration methods like carbon dosing and zeo. What I mean is, there is a bacteria-algae relationship, though I'm not sure has been adequately explored as it relates to algae scrubbers specifically. My thoughts on this are that as an algae mat grows, so does the surface area. Bacteria colonize this surface area. When you remove the algae, you remove bacteria too. This might be comparable to zeo where you shake the canister to break away the bacterial biofilm (and then skim it out) so that's where the zeo comparison comes from (albeit one limited to only one aspect). The sugar production is a comparison to carbon dosing, again I'm not sure this has been adequately explored either (as it relates to an algae scrubber)

Well, this is exactly why I want to know more about exactly how Pax Bellum has addressed this issue. And note, they specifically mention that their ARID replaces other types of methods you mention such as carbon dosing, zeo, etc. In fact, they go on to say that you will actually cause problems if you use them together. I am trying to find out what the issue is if you use them with ozone.

-JCL
 
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Yup, agreed. I am trying to figure out if the cost increase with size is linear, exponential, or logarithmic ;-)



Oh yes, I am just researching them so I will ready to add it when the time comes, same thing with a calcium reactor. I will probably try without first to see what my pain threshold is...

But, even if it is only "as good" and an ATS or refugium, (I suspect it is at least slightly better) but it does so in far less space, and with much better aesthetics, that might be enough to justify it for me.

To your other point, yes you could be trading one type of maintenance for another. OK, say you do eliminate water changes, but now instead you are harvesting and cleaning the algae scrubber every two weeks, and doing various dosing and testing. Might be better, might not.

Cost does come into play. Water is comparatively quite expensive where I live, I had to do major work to get my irrigation system for my lawn to sane levels.

If I am making RO/DI water frequently (and I already do for drinking water) , the combined product+waste water can add up, and of course the salt and other additives.



OK, I will definitely check it out, thank you. I was already interested in the Triton method and the DSR method, but I had more research to do. Pax Bellum does say that their reactor is "Triton compliant"...

Here is the LINK to where I spoke with Pax on YouTube and they responded right away. I have the same username on YouTube.

Try contacting them or replying to their comment and you'll probably get a response. They are username "TW."
 

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If you do a search you'll find most of us running them are very happy. I have on 2 tanks like the one from marine depot, one with a cheaper light from amazon; I had the aquamaxx reactors laying around(bad biopellet experience). Even using the aquamaxx reactor which is a nice reactor you can build the large one for 1/2 that price; pump included. It's hard to judge but my reactors seem to be even more efficient than a refugium I run on another tank.

I find maintenance to be ok, The one I have connected to an AIO below in a cabinet I have valves connected on both lines. I turn the pump off, the valves off, disconnect the top and remove the reactor to harvest and clean. Once a month. The larger one is even with the pump in the sump, I just turn off the pump and disconnect the top.

I am close to purchasing the aquamaxx kit and plan on installing on y 14g AIO. may be a stupid question but can the feed and return hoses go into one of the chambers or do they have to go in the display side?
 

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I am close to purchasing the aquamaxx kit and plan on installing on y 14g AIO. may be a stupid question but can the feed and return hoses go into one of the chambers or do they have to go in the display side?

You can drop the pump in one of the back chambers, or better yet just replace your return pump with the mj1200 and loop the reactor in. Check the gph but I think the mj1200 directly would be too much for a 14g, but looping the reactor in the cabinet should give you a good flow back into the tank.

On another note: you can make it as expensive or complicated as you want, the fact is a cheap simple diy performs just as well as any. I have 3, my best producer is a diy I fashioned from a brs reactor. It's fed from a cheap aquatop pump and has 6000-6500k led lights I got on amazon. Total cost is about $50-60, it's on a 90g.
 

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You can drop the pump in one of the back chambers, or better yet just replace your return pump with the mj1200 and loop the reactor in. Check the gph but I think the mj1200 directly would be too much for a 14g, but looping the reactor in the cabinet should give you a good flow back into the tank.
I currently have an Mj900 in there. I suppose I could just use that provided the flow does not get too degraded since it would have to move more water upstream through more equipment. The 1200 may be the better option but I would have to try and see. Good stuff! Thanks!
 
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I currently have an Mj900 in there. I suppose I could just use that provided the flow does not get too degraded since it would have to move more water upstream through more equipment. The 1200 may be the better option but I would have to try and see. Good stuff! Thanks!

I would also cut a circular piece of filter pad and place it in the reactor to catch any escaping chaeto pieces.
 

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