Do Algae Reactors Work, And Worth It?

helldiver

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I'm setting one up now from an old zeo reactor I like the black vinyl wrap thanks for the idea. I am in the process of ordering a longer led strip thought what I ordered would be enough. Plan on putting it on a stand in about 5" of water so the LEDs don't get wet just don't trust em!
16b99c2f25e702411da53f439d129238.jpg
Ithought about this also but putting the skimz replacement in it getting hollow tube and purting lights in them or buying santa monica sumbersible lights but this is what i have now tlf 150

Message_1506272338403.jpg
 
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Forsaken77

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New Bitmap Image by Will Carr, on Flickr

Here is a paint drawing... hopefully it makes sense..

Wouldn't you then have exposed leads all around the top that aren't waterproofed? Even if the reactor is external to the sump, when you take the top off and pull out the chaeto wouldn't corrosive water have the opportunity to drip all over these leads being they'd be all around the top of reactor?

I think that may also be part of the reasoning why this hasn't been done.
 
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Forsaken77

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Ithought about this also but putting the skimz replacement in it getting hollow tube and purting lights in them or buying santa monica sumbersible lights but this is what i have now tlf 150

Message_1506272338403.jpg

According to the Pax Bellum guy (ARID Reactor), black is the worst reflective surface when I asked him about the Skimz model.

They make white vinyl wrap that would reflect the light back into the reactor. The gloss type that's used on cars.
 

Zephrant

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I have some LEDs on order, disappointed that Topledlight took almost two weeks to even ship, will need another week or two before I get them.

Planning on using a test tube from Amazon to give me a glass tube down the center of the column. If I could get good contact from the heatsink down the middle of the glass tube to the tube, I may not need an external heatsink/fan.

Also planning on getting something like Mylar to wrap the tube. Maybe just a space blanket for starters. My setup is external to the sump, so I don't need underwater protection, just splash protection.
 

helldiver

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@Forsaken77 he is totally correct about the black been the worst reflective and to wrap in white
I was talking about buying one of these lights or something similar to turn my Zeovit reactor into a chateo reactor
or use the gem 5 lights

211043-skimz-rdl18-led-tube-a_2.jpg


gem5-lights-everywhere.jpg
 

Reefer40b

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Wouldn't you then have exposed leads all around the top that aren't waterproofed? Even if the reactor is external to the sump, when you take the top off and pull out the chaeto wouldn't corrosive water have the opportunity to drip all over these leads being they'd be all around the top of reactor?

I think that may also be part of the reasoning why this hasn't been done.
No you would seal the ends after u solder the wires, no water would be able to get to the corrosive parts and it was just a mock up wires don't need to run out the top.
 
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Forsaken77

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Ithought about this also but putting the skimz replacement in it getting hollow tube and purting lights in them or buying santa monica sumbersible lights but this is what i have now tlf 150

Message_1506272338403.jpg

The Santa Monica guy sent me a link to his submersible red led bars. They're $190 for 4!!!

Also another thing to consider is that his ATS units use red led's for green hair algae. Does chaeto thrive on just red led's? Because a year or two ago, when I was looking at what light spectrum bulb to use to grow chaeto in a regular fuge, most people said to use 6500k bulbs, which are way different than the 3000k red lights. Finding the optimal spectrum for chaeto may be different than micro algae requirements (which grows in almost any spectrum unfortunately, lol)

When you make your reactor I would stress using a coarse filter pad cut to size with a fine screen material to keep the small clippings in after trimming.
 
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Forsaken77

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OK, for thoroughness, I'm going to post everything I got:

Lights:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MRHQMYH/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Reactor:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008E6JM88/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Aluminum Tube (TBD) (5.75" ID at 22" long):
https://www.speedymetals.com/p-4648-6-od-x-0125-wall-tube-6061-t6-aluminum.aspx

The lights will be stuck to the tube. Hopefully the sticky part will transfer enough heat to the aluminum without too much of the heat going through air then aluminum. I'm hoping the aluminum tube will help direct heat out and away from both the lights and reactor. I don't know how much it will help, but we shall see. The tube will also act to prevent light leak and maybe reflect a bit of the light back in.

I haven't gotten the tube yet because I'm waiting on the reactor and lights to get an exact measurement.

The lights I know the person has had for a couple months now. No real heat issues with it wrapped around an AVAST MR10 reactor. I also know that the Accel strip lights that MarineDepot sells doesn't get hot either, but might not have the best grow lights.

I actually just thought about this... Any hardware store should carry refective tape. So you can use whatever you want to put around the reactor, but line it with reflective tape, then put the led's over the tape.

I saw a YouTube video of Joey, the King of DIY Aquarium Stuff, make an led light for one of his 120 gallon tanks. He used gutter guards, lined it with reflective tape and then ran 5 led strips down. And he now uses this as his main method to light all of his freshwater tanks.

So theoretically, you could use a big enough enclosure around the reactor, so you could just slide it over the reactor, but as long as you have enough light reflecting back in, it should provide enough light and, provided you drilled some holes through this cover for passive air circulation, it may work.

Just so you don't necessarily have to find a reflective material, like aluminum, to house the reactor, you can use whatever works and make it reflective with the tape. It's basically aluminum foil in tape form.

Just an idea.
 

kinetic

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I actually just thought about this... Any hardware store should carry refective tape. So you can use whatever you want to put around the reactor, but line it with reflective tape, then put the led's over the tape.

I saw a YouTube video of Joey, the King of DIY Aquarium Stuff, make an led light for one of his 120 gallon tanks. He used gutter guards, lined it with reflective tape and then ran 5 led strips down. And he now uses this as his main method to light all of his freshwater tanks.

So theoretically, you could use a big enough enclosure around the reactor, so you could just slide it over the reactor, but as long as you have enough light reflecting back in, it should provide enough light and, provided you drilled some holes through this cover for passive air circulation, it may work.

Just so you don't necessarily have to find a reflective material, like aluminum, to house the reactor, you can use whatever works and make it reflective with the tape. It's basically aluminum foil in tape form.

Just an idea.

I'm using the aluminum for heat purposes, not reflective purposes.

A quick update, I mounted the LED's on the inside of the aluminum square tube, and while the aluminum gets hot (and is very reflective), it doesn't passively cool as much as I think it should. I ordered two 5" x 8" heatsinks to mount on two walls of my aluminum square tube, and will have a small fan blowing. That should do it! Photos soon when I get everything in place.
 

Zephrant

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Might be able to get buy just with a small fan or two. It can make a huge difference if you get a little bit of air flow going.

Ended up with 16 Intel Xeon heatsink/fan assemblies at work I don't need, trying to figure out how to use them in a project. I hate to just chuck them.
Looks like these: https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Heatsink-Cooling-X3210-X3220/dp/B017OC09FW
81Jt2uxdglL._SL1500_.jpg
 

fishbox

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I reached out to get updates from a couple members that used PVC around the rectors and mounted the lights to the PVC which left space for air. They seem to be happy with the results. One member did NOT use any type of active cooling with the PVC yet felt that heating was not a concern. Others used active cooling and felt the same. So I think we're on to something here by keeping the LEDs off of the reactor housing and getting some air flow in between.
 

fishbox

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@Zephrant
If you're really finding it that difficult to come up with projects for those 16 fans you can always put one in the mail and send it to me this way you only have 15 to worry about :)
 
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Forsaken77

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I actually found IP68 (full waterproof) marine grade led strips. I was thinking of putting them inside the reactor. The only problem is they're $200 for 16ft. And if people are having success with lights under $50, then scrap that. But they would be good for submersible units.
 
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Forsaken77

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I reached out to get updates from a couple members that used PVC around the rectors and mounted the lights to the PVC which left space for air. They seem to be happy with the results. One member did NOT use any type of active cooling with the PVC yet felt that heating was not a concern. Others used active cooling and felt the same. So I think we're on to something here by keeping the LEDs off of the reactor housing and getting some air flow in between.

Did they drill air holes in the pvc, or just using it with an open top?
 

fishbox

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I actually found IP68 (full waterproof) marine grade led strips. I was thinking of putting them inside the reactor. The only problem is they're $200 for 16ft. And if people are having success with lights under $50, then scrap that. But they would be good for submersible units.
If you're going to spend that much on lights alone you might as well to save a few extra bucks and just get a designer algae reactor.
I'm a non-working student so I'm in this for the DIY aspect and budgeting aspect[emoji12]
 

fishbox

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Did they drill air holes in the pvc, or just using it with an open top?
So far none of the members I spoke to used any holes other than the open top and open bottom. And that goes for the ones using active Cooling and passive Cooling. Keep in mind that none of them had their units running for any great length of time. More like a few weeks to a couple of months.
 
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Forsaken77

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If you're going to spend that much on lights alone you might as well to save a few extra bucks and just get a designer algae reactor.
I'm a non-working student so I'm in this for the DIY aspect and budgeting aspect[emoji12]

No, I wasn't going to buy them. Just mentioning that I found some that were specifically marine grade.

I'm on disability right now, so DIY is where it's at for me as well.

I think I'm just going to open up a cardboard box so it's still a rectangle without the ends to slip over the reactor, line it with reflective tape all inside, and wrap the LEDs around it inside. The reactor I plan to use has a water input on the bottom with flow control knob, so I don't think pvc would fit over it.
 

fishbox

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Not sure if you have the proper tools but PVC is pretty easy to cut and carve. I personally don't see any reason you could not use the cardboard with the reflective tape. It just might not last as long. Even though there may not be direct contact with water there is the case of higher humidity near the tank. But considering the cardboard is probably free how hard would it be to replace LOL
 

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Hello all, I have been looking for a good thread on this, especially one with some Pax Bellum ARIN owners, which it looks like there is one or perhaps two? (Forsaken77 and Eric23).

I am really leaning on pulling the trigger on getting one of these, but whenever I bring it up with some of the people I know, they try to talk me out of it and tell me how good their refugium method is working for them. I am perfectly willing to admit part of the reason I want it is that it really looks cool. But, beyond that, if you get into the fine print and design, I think it may actually be getting some key things correct that might be hard to replicate with DIY or other methods.

Forsake77, I am really happy to hear that you actually reached out to Pax Bellum and got a response. I sent them a very detailed e-mail but have not gotten a reply yet. I figure they are either just busy or I scared them off.

Here is what I laid out in the e-mail:

References:
I have read the information here:
https://www.f3images.com/IMD/UserManuals/6U0330_1.pdf

As well as various reviews, such as this one:
https://reefs.com/2016/04/01/turbo-charged-algae-scrubbing-pax-bellum-arid/

And a related white paper here:
http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/134/m134p207.pdf
....a highly technical study on issues with getting the lighting right.

Vs. refugiums
- Some of the advantages vs. a refugium, more rapid and uniform water flow for nutrient delivery, and in the ARID scenario, much more efficient delivery of light to the algae for various reasons (reflection, distance, etc.) and using the heat-pipe cooling system to help accomplish this (the white paper above points to the high loss of light over even short distances). This makes sense to me, and most criticisms I see in forums don't seem to fully grasp these differences vs. the various DIY solutions or anecdotal experiences. One key point I see is that, most of these users still have to do water changes, something I am going to try and avoid or significantly reduce, and I am trying to better understand how the ARID solution can help me do that.
- I am actually less surprised by the heat pipes as some others seem to be. I work in the IT industry and this has been used to cool CPUs and GPUs for quite a long time. I am actually surprised you guys did not offer a water-cooled solution, which looks like what you are doing on some of the larger setups (https://www.manhattanreefs.com/gallery/files/4/8/6/7/4/landt.jpg). This would allow removing heat in the case where it is located in an enclosed cabinet, such as putting a radiator outside the cabinet. But I realize that is no longer a passive solution.

Vs. turf scrubbers
- In comparison to an algae turf scrubber, it says in the faq that excess CO2 exposure allows for rapid growth, but results in conversion to sugars building up in the system. I have not seen this mentioned anywhere else except this faq, nor in any review of algae scrubbers or similar solutions. I am wondering if they have any data or research about this issue? How does the ARID avoid this? Especially considering the option of injecting excess CO2 from a calcium reactor.
-On a related note, I have never seen an aquaponics solution that recommended completely submerging the plant medium in water, in fact, I more often see aeroponics used in hydroponics systems to maximize the advantage of the air/water interface. And I would think this is especially true with marine water that is comparatively poor at containing dissolved gasses such as O2 and CO2 (I have seen mention of about 1/5th that of freshwater, also affected by pH and temp, and about 50,000 times less than air). So, I think this is a key point to understand. Being fully enclosed would seem to limit it in some ways, but maybe it is not as important as I think it is.

Protein skimmers
- They mention not using a protein skimmer, for the stated reason of not needing a source of O2 from the protein skimmer, but I always considered protein skimmers primarily for nutrient export, and the oxygenation is just a bonus. Also, what happens during the dark cycle, even if you are using a reverse cycle? I know that corals and algae in the aquarium can produce oxygen, but if they are saying that someone is using a protein skimmer partially for 02, or gas exchange in general, is this something more along the lines of something you "might" be able to do, but it is not necessarily encouraged or recommended? Especially in a scenario where you want to utilize multiple methods of nutrient export to support a heavy load, I would think this would be a consideration on small or lightly loaded scenarios, and as such some of those might not have the phosphate output to support an ARID in the first place.

Ozone
- I am very interested in using ozone for keeping the water as clear as possible, and for the removal of various coral toxins and similar. But, they specifically say this can and will cause problems. I was planning to use a dedicated ozone reactor rather than with a skimmer so that I could more carefully control how much I use, as well as the safe removal of excess ozone. I have not seen any mention in regards to mV measurements with the use of the ARID. I would like to see them elaborate on the problems that might be caused with ozone, and if there are cases where small amounts of ozone could safely be used?

And now for a theory....
- Historically everyone recommends not using a wet/dry filters in reef tank due to nitrate production. Well, I happen to have one of these, and I was thinking of taking clean water after my filter system and running it through the wet/dry, and directing the effluent into the ARID, to purposely support the production of the excess Nitrate needed, along with some of the other benefits of wet/dry filters. (I am attached a diagram of my current filter concept to see what they think)

Dosing
- They sell solutions to dose things that are needed by the macro algae to ultimately remove the most phosphate. Other than not being able to process the phosphate, are there any ill effects if you forgot to dose these? I would expect the macro algae would remain alive, it would just limit it's growth. And I expect it would be possible to use automatic systems for dosing.

Sizing
- Is there any harm in over-sizing the units, do they need to be "right-sized"? Say if I want to be able to move it to a larger system in the future or run a heavier load?

Attached is my current work-in-progress diagram....

-JCL

aquarium filter - version 7_small.jpg
 

jcl123

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Hello, I have a couple of suggestions for a DIY algae reactor.

I would not try to run one of these without cooling the LED's. Those light strips you guys use don't offer much, so you are asking for excess heat, damage, maybe even safety. They are meant to be "stuck" to something, which gives them some degree of cooling even if it is not really heat conductive like metal. But wrapping them around provides none.

If you go with the "coaxial" design like the ARID, heat pipes are actually hard to make (but I have seen it done). Instead, you could use an off-the-shelf CPU water cooler (such as https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103236), and just run the water through the metal tube in the center. Then you just locate the radiator somewhere with good airflow, and/or put a fan on it. The only downside is you need a small circulation pump (that comes with it) so it is not a passive solution. But people in this hobby have lots of experience with pumps ;-)

IF you are going to go with wrapping the LED's around the outside way, here is an idea for that. Those LED's already come with an adhesive backing, all you need to do is stick some of these tiny heatsinks behind the LEDs: http://koolance.com/video-ram-heat-sinks. These are also self adhesive, but you can get one's that are not, and some of them even use thermal adhesive pads that conduct heat better.

This does not solve all the problems, but I wanted to share this for the cooling issue.

-JCL
 

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