Durso pipe

[T33BLACK]

I have a durso pipe that I made for my Peninsula Aquarium and I think the bend in it needs to be lower maybe I need to cut the pipe down a few inches because I'm having to restrict the flow quite a bit and I have a good size return pump would lowering the pipe help at all?

 

[mcarroll]

I have a durso pipe that I made for my Peninsula Aquarium and I think the bend in it needs to be lower maybe I need to cut the pipe down a few inches because I'm having to restrict the flow quite a bit and I have a good size return pump would lowering the pipe help at all?

In general GPH causes noise and workarounds are usually very imperfect. I don't think changing your durso will make a huge difference even if it improves things.

The solution (which may be impossible) is to upsize your drains for the correct capacity and they will naturally be 90%+ noise free.

Are you targeting more than 4 times tank turnover for your GPH?

In most cases, 1x+ will do the trick. 2x is plenty, with a margin of safety. 4-5x is "a lot".

Certainly you can go even higher than 5x, but then you're usually trying to do something different with your return flow than just operate a filter section. 1x+ is fine for filtration in most cases.

So if possilbe, reduce your GPH target to those flow rates mentioned and see if that helps. (On the bright side, you will save money on cost of a smaller pump and it's power usage will be less than a larger pump.)

 

[T33BLACK]

In general GPH causes noise and workarounds are usually very imperfect. I don't think changing your durso will make a huge difference even if it improves things.

The solution (which may be impossible) is to upsize your drains for the correct capacity and they will naturally be 90%+ noise free.

Are you targeting more than 4 times tank turnover for your GPH?

In most cases, 1x+ will do the trick. 2x is plenty, with a margin of safety. 4-5x is "a lot".

Certainly you can go even higher than 5x, but then you're usually trying to do something different with your return flow than just operate a filter section. 1x+ is fine for filtration in most cases.

So if possilbe, reduce your GPH target to those flow rates mentioned and see if that helps. (On the bright side, you will save money on cost of a smaller pump and it's power usage will be less than a larger pump.)

Thanks for the help I'm running a cor 20 pump 2,000 gallons per hour but I'm also feeding a UV sterilizer with it. I have two returns which I believe are 3/4 each and the drain is inch and a half. I have a gate valve on the drain so I can silence it very well just thought maybe if I lowered the durso pipe it could handle more gallons per hour with more pressure pushing the water into the durso bend if it was lower if that makes any sense

 

[mcarroll]

Thanks for the help I'm running a cor 20 pump 2,000 gallons per hour but I'm also feeding a UV sterilizer with it. I have two returns which I believe are 3/4 each and the drain is inch and a half. I have a gate valve on the drain so I can silence it very well just thought maybe if I lowered the durso pipe it could handle more gallons per hour with more pressure pushing the water into the durso bend if it was lower if that makes any sense

Unless you are running a drain system that specifically calls for it (which you may be), I wouldn't put a valve in the drain line.

3/4" returns sound too small for 2000 GPH....what is the actual flow rate you are shooting for? Do you know the GPH requirement for your UV?

COR

COR Intelligent Return Pump Intelligent Quiet Energy-Efficient COR 15 A medium-sized, smart, quiet, and efficient pump to connect to your Apex. Up to 1,500 GPH, Apex-connected return pump that intelligently interacts with your Apex without a bulky power supply. COR 20...

www.neptunesystems.com

Where is your system on this chart? For the sake of discussion I'm going to assume this is the (150 gallon) tank we're talking about:

Sea side aquatics legit?

I found a 150g peninsula with stand and glass sump from sea side aquatics which seems like a great deal for only 2100 brand new. Anyone heard of them or dealt with them? The tank is an Aqua Japan?

www.reef2reef.com

Looks like your pump should be able to deliver about 1000 GPH at tank-height, assuming no undue restrictions.

150 gallons means you want a minimum of 150 GPH (1x) but possible as much as 750 GPH (5x).

Unfortunately I'm not finding much detail on the tank. The durso itself is 1.5" then? Also the bulkhead/tank outlet?

Assuming 12' of 3/4" return plumbing and the sump just being under the tank, we can expect almost no additional head loss from 150 GPH and about +4 feet of head loss if you push it up to 5x.

Refiguring from the flow chart with that +4 feet and we see your 3/4" drains may be limiting your pump to a maximum of around 500 gph due to friction losses.

If that's your actual flow rate and your drains and everything in the drain line are 1.5" then maybe your change on the durso will help.

But if the drain line is actually 1" somewhere (eg the bulkhead) then your max drain flow is more like 600 GPH. At 500 GPH you'd be pushing the drain to >80% of its capacity as a gravity drain....still works, but it *will* be noisy. Changing just the durso may not make very much difference in this case. Lowering the pump's flow rate will actually reduce friction losses (=waste of power) AND make the drain more silent. And as already mentioned, you can go all the way to 1x flow if needed. (Smaller return pump would probably make sense in that case.)

Anyway, I made a lot of assumptions. Make corrections as needed! :)

 

[T33BLACK]

Unless you are running a drain system that specifically calls for it (which you may be), I wouldn't put a valve in the drain line.

3/4" returns sound too small for 2000 GPH....what is the actual flow rate you are shooting for? Do you know the GPH requirement for your UV?

COR

COR Intelligent Return Pump Intelligent Quiet Energy-Efficient COR 15 A medium-sized, smart, quiet, and efficient pump to connect to your Apex. Up to 1,500 GPH, Apex-connected return pump that intelligently interacts with your Apex without a bulky power supply. COR 20...

www.neptunesystems.com

Where is your system on this chart? For the sake of discussion I'm going to assume this is the (150 gallon) tank we're talking about:

Sea side aquatics legit?

I found a 150g peninsula with stand and glass sump from sea side aquatics which seems like a great deal for only 2100 brand new. Anyone heard of them or dealt with them? The tank is an Aqua Japan?

www.reef2reef.com

Looks like your pump should be able to deliver about 1000 GPH at tank-height, assuming no undue restrictions.

150 gallons means you want a minimum of 150 GPH (1x) but possible as much as 750 GPH (5x).

Unfortunately I'm not finding much detail on the tank. The durso itself is 1.5" then? Also the bulkhead/tank outlet?

Assuming 12' of 3/4" return plumbing and the sump just being under the tank, we can expect almost no additional head loss from 150 GPH and about +4 feet of head loss if you push it up to 5x.

Refiguring from the flow chart with that +4 feet and we see your 3/4" drains may be limiting your pump to a maximum of around 500 gph due to friction losses.

If that's your actual flow rate and your drains and everything in the drain line are 1.5" then maybe your change on the durso will help.

But if the drain line is actually 1" somewhere (eg the bulkhead) then your max drain flow is more like 600 GPH. At 500 GPH you'd be pushing the drain to >80% of its capacity as a gravity drain....still works, but it *will* be noisy. Changing just the durso may not make very much difference in this case. Lowering the pump's flow rate will actually reduce friction losses (=waste of power) AND make the drain more silent. And as already mentioned, you can go all the way to 1x flow if needed. (Smaller return pump would probably make sense in that case.)

Anyway, I made a lot of assumptions. Make corrections as needed! :)

That definitely makes sense.
So from the cor 20 pump it goes into a tee valve which one goes to my uv at very slow rate the other splits into (2) 3/4 return lines back into the tank. The durso is made completely of 1 1/2 as well as the bulkhead under the tank all the way to the sump. and yes this is the 150 peninsula

 

[mcarroll]

That definitely makes sense.
So from the cor 20 pump it goes into a tee valve which one goes to my uv at very slow rate the other splits into (2) 3/4 return lines back into the tank. The durso is made completely of 1 1/2 as well as the bulkhead under the tank all the way to the sump. and yes this is the 150 peninsula

1.5" all the way from the display to the sump at least elminates the +4 feet of head pressure.....placing max flow around 1000 GPH using the rest of my assumptions. (Which is much more than needed.)

But is the UV on a third return leg? ....also 3/4" or is the UV a typical 2" housing? If not, how do you measure flow rate through it? (What is the actual flow rate through it presently? May have to be measured at the UV outlet if it's separate.)

It might be interesting if you measure the flow at your drain to see what your system is currently delivering in total. Calculations are nice, but they're even nicer when reality confirms them. :D

Use a conveniently sized container of known volume (eg 1 quart) to time the flow from a drain or return outlet, then convert up to gallons per hour.

 

[T33BLACK]

1.5" all the way from the display to the sump at least elminates the +4 feet of head pressure.....placing max flow around 1000 GPH using the rest of my assumptions. (Which is much more than needed.)

But is the UV on a third return leg? ....also 3/4" or is the UV a typical 2" housing? If not, how do you measure flow rate through it? (What is the actual flow rate through it presently? May have to be measured at the UV outlet if it's separate.)

It might be interesting if you measure the flow at your drain to see what your system is currently delivering in total. Calculations are nice, but they're even nicer when reality confirms them. :D

Use a conveniently sized container of known volume (eg 1 quart) to time the flow from a drain or return outlet, then convert up to gallons per hour.

The uv is 3/4 in and out . Not sure what flow rate I have to it I have it on a valve that I just turn down it's only open about a quarter of the way so not much. I do have the core 20 pump turned up to max flow. And I have the gate valve at the bottom of the durso under the tank closed a little more than halfway. I'm wondering if in theory I opened the drain valve all the way and slowed my pump down if that would get the same effect

 

[mcarroll]

1.5" all the way from the display to the sump at least elminates the +4 feet of head pressure.....placing max flow around 1000 GPH using the rest of my assumptions. (Which is much more than needed.)

Sorry for the confusion!! I had a mental short curcuit back there and confused drain and return measurements. Still probbably looking at ~500 GPH max flow with the COR20 turned up all the way....lots of friction loss (ie edge turbulence) shrinks the useful volume inside the pipe for flow.

1.5" for the drains is great news for the noise and potential flow rate (1400 gph, up to 50% is usually silent).

The question about the pump and overall flow is still open regards to the UV channel and measuring actual overal flow. (More below...)

The uv is 3/4 in and out . Not sure what flow rate I have to it I have it on a valve that I just turn down it's only open about a quarter of the way so not much.

Does UV have its own return, or is the whole thing just a side-channel of one of the returns? Still not clear on this, sorry. :)

If it has its own return, measure it so you know the actual GPH. This controls the UV dose....seems like you wouldn't want it to be a mystery, that way you can target what you want to target. (High flow = small critters only; low flow = larger critters. Bacteria and algae are small; parasites are big.)

I don't think a third return outlet for the UV helps (or hurts) your potential GPH though....it's another few feet of 3/4" plumbing that can cause a little more back pressure/friction loss/head pressure (+6ft vs +4ft; check the flow curve again...not too big a difference.

Tank height + friction loss = Total head pressure. Use "Total..." when you look at the flow curve and it should be pretty accurate to what you measure for total flow at the drain in the sump.

I do have the core 20 pump turned up to max flow. And I have the gate valve at the bottom of the durso under the tank closed a little more than halfway. I'm wondering if in theory I opened the drain valve all the way and slowed my pump down if that would get the same effect

If the drain is 1.5" (simple gravity drain?) then I would actually cut the valve out at my earliest convenience and definitely run it wide open.

And yes, then (if still needed) throttle back the pump a little at a time until it gets quiet.

Then measure your drain line's actual flow rate and the UV's flow rate.

As long as the two both line up with your GPH goals, you're all set. Might take a little tweaking to get flow through the UV correct.

If you end up needing more flow (which I doubt) after all measurements and tweaks are done, then increasing to 1" return plumbing would make a difference, if possible. Cuts friction losses to just +2 feet. Going up to 1.25" return plumbing would basically eliminate friction losses. (You're potentially up against your drain's max flow rate at that point and noise predictably becomes a real problem.)

 

[T33BLACK]

Sorry for the confusion!! I had a mental short curcuit back there and confused drain and return measurements. Still probbably looking at ~500 GPH max flow with the COR20 turned up all the way....lots of friction loss (ie edge turbulence) shrinks the useful volume inside the pipe for flow.

1.5" for the drains is great news for the noise and potential flow rate (1400 gph, up to 50% is usually silent).

The question about the pump and overall flow is still open regards to the UV channel and measuring actual overal flow. (More below...)


Does UV have its own return, or is the whole thing just a side-channel of one of the returns? Still not clear on this, sorry. :)

If it has its own return, measure it so you know the actual GPH. This controls the UV dose....seems like you wouldn't want it to be a mystery, that way you can target what you want to target. (High flow = small critters only; low flow = larger critters. Bacteria and algae are small; parasites are big.)

I don't think a third return outlet for the UV helps (or hurts) your potential GPH though....it's another few feet of 3/4" plumbing that can cause a little more back pressure/friction loss/head pressure (+6ft vs +4ft; check the flow curve again...not too big a difference.

Tank height + friction loss = Total head pressure. Use "Total..." when you look at the flow curve and it should be pretty accurate to what you measure for total flow at the drain in the sump.


If the drain is 1.5" (simple gravity drain?) then I would actually cut the valve out at my earliest convenience and definitely run it wide open.

And yes, then (if still needed) throttle back the pump a little at a time until it gets quiet.

Then measure your drain line's actual flow rate and the UV's flow rate.

As long as the two both line up with your GPH goals, you're all set. Might take a little tweaking to get flow through the UV correct.

If you end up needing more flow (which I doubt) after all measurements and tweaks are done, then increasing to 1" return plumbing would make a difference, if possible. Cuts friction losses to just +2 feet. Going up to 1.25" return plumbing would basically eliminate friction losses. (You're potentially up against your drain's max flow rate at that point and noise predictably becomes a real problem.)

Sounds great thank you im gonna try to cut the drain valve out and run it open and dail the pump back until it quiets. When I run the drain wide open ( valve open all the way) and the return pump on max, I constantly get the weir filling up and draining so fast it is like flushing a toilet every minute thats why I put the gate valve to slow it down.

 

[RobertK]

If you just have a single drain line you definitely don't want a gate valve on it. If anything gets into the drain pipe and caught on the valve (like a snail or something) your tank will overflow and your sump level will drop and your ATO will dump its entire contents into your sump. Ask me how I know.

 

[T33BLACK]

So I opened my gate valve all the way so not risk of blocking but was getting a horrible toilet flushing every few seconds so I drilled a hole in the top as recommended with tubing out the top and the toilet flushing stopped but now I get a constant gurgling any idea how to stop that?

 

[RobertK]

So I opened my gate valve all the way so not risk of blocking but was getting a horrible toilet flushing every few seconds so I drilled a hole in the top as recommended with tubing out the top and the toilet flushing stopped but now I get a constant gurgling any idea how to stop that?

Hmmm, can't tell you for sure. Mine was like this with a hole drilled in top and a flexible drinking straw inserted in the hole. It was pretty quiet but not completely silent. I don't have that tank anymore though. HTH.