U
EB832 Death Screen?
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OP
OP
Hi @HuneyBear, yes, you are correct about PLC (programmable logic controller). I've worked with them for decades. (40 years aerospace R&D lab., talk about redundancy!) I was just trying to describe them for others who may not have worked with them before. When designed properly they can actually take up less space.
I guess now I'm starting my own pile of dead controller parts. Grand total to date,....one. But it's a start. ;Playful I also have many other pieces of dead equipment (i.e. pumps, lights, heaters, etc.) over the years as no mechanical or electrical device lives forever.
To wit the desire for a more modular system. I believe that the vast majority of people would be capable of pulling the plug from a single dead power module that needs replacing and temporarily plug it into a wall socket (via extension cord if need be) until their favorite supplier/deliverer (i.e. Amazon Prime) shipped a new module out. The rest of the system just keeps chugging along. No real need to keep a spare of every item on hand. Factories have been operating this way for years.
Hi @Dub, while I agree with your basic premise, I don't think that this is an excuse to accept shoddy equipment. Actually I think it is the exact opposite. It is through these exchanges that the manufacturers can get some real world feedback on their products. The rest of my system has been operating flawlessly for years, so I do think that Apex is a pretty good system. But no one can deny, with all the real world feedback, that the EB832s have some "room for improvement". I'm willing to bet that someone at Neptune is reading all these post and hopefully will be taking it into some consideration. Fingers crossed! With the competition ramping up, it would be in their best interest.
(Just saw that a couple more post were made while I was typing. All comments welcome. The more the better for the manufacturers to get a good perspective on the matter.)
P.S. Hope I didn't come across as too harsh on anyone, not at all my intention, but sometimes hard in written word.
I guess now I'm starting my own pile of dead controller parts. Grand total to date,....one. But it's a start. ;Playful I also have many other pieces of dead equipment (i.e. pumps, lights, heaters, etc.) over the years as no mechanical or electrical device lives forever.
To wit the desire for a more modular system. I believe that the vast majority of people would be capable of pulling the plug from a single dead power module that needs replacing and temporarily plug it into a wall socket (via extension cord if need be) until their favorite supplier/deliverer (i.e. Amazon Prime) shipped a new module out. The rest of the system just keeps chugging along. No real need to keep a spare of every item on hand. Factories have been operating this way for years.
Hi @Dub, while I agree with your basic premise, I don't think that this is an excuse to accept shoddy equipment. Actually I think it is the exact opposite. It is through these exchanges that the manufacturers can get some real world feedback on their products. The rest of my system has been operating flawlessly for years, so I do think that Apex is a pretty good system. But no one can deny, with all the real world feedback, that the EB832s have some "room for improvement". I'm willing to bet that someone at Neptune is reading all these post and hopefully will be taking it into some consideration. Fingers crossed! With the competition ramping up, it would be in their best interest.
(Just saw that a couple more post were made while I was typing. All comments welcome. The more the better for the manufacturers to get a good perspective on the matter.)
P.S. Hope I didn't come across as too harsh on anyone, not at all my intention, but sometimes hard in written word.
Waters
"...in perfect isolation, here behind my wall."
Yes, the EB8 is extremely reliable.....I use mine as a backup when my EB8232 dies.....which it has twice now lol.
Thales
Valuable Member
I have backups for everything critical on my systems because we are likely never going to get bomb proof stuff because the industry is small and most people don't want to pay for hardened stuff.
rkpetersen
walked the sand with the crustaceans
Excellence Award
Reef Squad Emeritus
Pacific Northwest Reefers
Just a comment about the EBs. Although they are the most expensive per outlet, the EB4s are very nice. Unlike the EB8, the EB4 is all mechanical relays, no TRIAC switches. Also, one of the EB4 outlets is rated for 12 amps, the highest of any energy bar outlet, not matched by the EB832 or EB8. Very handy for devices with high draw like chiller compressors. So when I've added a few devices to one of my systems, I've used an EB4. Also keep a couple spares on hand.
joshwaggs
Active Member
I think it is also important to remember that, even though there are known problems, Neptune hasn't said anything. In fact, they just put the EB832s on sale and are pushing them. If you know there is a problem with them, then you should warn people, or fix it before selling more. Or, at the least, when they do fix the problem, then offer a way to replace the old ones with issues (even if the warranty is expired), it doesnt need to be free, but let customers know they are taken care of, not just ignored. I had the EB832 in the cart, but noticed the reviews. I went to forums to see if it was a large issue, which it appeared to be, then took it out of the cart and went to the competitor.Hi @HuneyBear, yes, you are correct about PLC (programmable logic controller). I've worked with them for decades. (40 years aerospace R&D lab., talk about redundancy!) I was just trying to describe them for others who may not have worked with them before. When designed properly they can actually take up less space.
I guess now I'm starting my own pile of dead controller parts. Grand total to date,....one. But it's a start. ;Playful I also have many other pieces of dead equipment (i.e. pumps, lights, heaters, etc.) over the years as no mechanical or electrical device lives forever.
To wit the desire for a more modular system. I believe that the vast majority of people would be capable of pulling the plug from a single dead power module that needs replacing and temporarily plug it into a wall socket (via extension cord if need be) until their favorite supplier/deliverer (i.e. Amazon Prime) shipped a new module out. The rest of the system just keeps chugging along. No real need to keep a spare of every item on hand. Factories have been operating this way for years.
Hi @Dub, while I agree with your basic premise, I don't think that this is an excuse to accept shoddy equipment. Actually I think it is the exact opposite. It is through these exchanges that the manufacturers can get some real world feedback on their products. The rest of my system has been operating flawlessly for years, so I do think that Apex is a pretty good system. But no one can deny, with all the real world feedback, that the EB832s have some "room for improvement". I'm willing to bet that someone at Neptune is reading all these post and hopefully will be taking it into some consideration. Fingers crossed! With the competition ramping up, it would be in their best interest.
(Just saw that a couple more post were made while I was typing. All comments welcome. The more the better for the manufacturers to get a good perspective on the matter.)
P.S. Hope I didn't come across as too harsh on anyone, not at all my intention, but sometimes hard in written word.
Perhaps I missed it, what is the known issue?
I currently have 4 eb832s on my system and only had 1 failure, and that was due to neglect on my part. It got wet.
All I read about is that they shouldn't have combined so many things into 1 unit and thus bringing the price down for an energy bar.
Creating multiple modules is definitely an option but it doesn't constitute calling the eb832 problematic, or less reliable.
Lumping all those capabilities into the 832 is a choice ns made. How they decide to roll out a product is strictly their prerogative.
The EB8 is a suitable substitute if all you want is an energy bar. And if memory serves me correctly they still carry those.
If you don't use the 24v and 1link option. Then the eb8 is definitely your beat option.
U
User1
Guest
You can actually say what whatever you want within reason of course. However, don't be surprised or in shock when someone questions a reply stating "known" problem without reference. We are talking about the internet here and it is full of all sorts of anecdotal statements.
I think someone above said it. People are more common to create threads when there are issues compared to those who do not without and give praise. Controller, car, or lightbulb. It is what it is.
I am biased. I own an Apex. I can see where you are coming from. Do I agree with your assessment that there are "known" issues or "a known" issue? No, I don't. On the other hand I am not foolish enough to say there are not issues reported.
Lastly let me say this - I do give Neptune the benefit of the doubt that if there was a consistent issue they would address it. I can't really say why and I'm falling in that anecdotal trap above but having an open unrelated ticket they work on issues and fix them. We just do not see it at our level.
Waters
"...in perfect isolation, here behind my wall."
For what it is worth, Neptune does offer the replacement EB8232s at half price if your unit is defective and out of warranty. I have replaced two that way.
OP
OP
Wait, What, Really, please do tell more. How does one go about getting that deal?
Then you don't know me, I'll be the first to point out a problem with Neptune product and try to hold them accountable. And there are a few Neptune products that fit that criteria, but from my experience, the eb832 isn't one.
I see you have taken my comment about a controller and ran with it about a whole tank system. I have spare lights, heaters, pumps and even tanks and stock tanks. That’s a given in this hobby. I don’t have a whole backup controller though. If you would have actually read what I said and not got all gassed up. You shouldn’t have to keep a spare COMPLETE CONTROLLER setup. You are trusting something to run your tank, but you don’t trust it. I don’t hate Apex, I just refuse to pay for marketing department before the engineering department. Back to the EB832 and it’s failure
I am familiar with PLC’s as well. I can come off as seeming harsh or angry as well, but I’m not.Hi @HuneyBear, yes, you are correct about PLC (programmable logic controller). I've worked with them for decades. (40 years aerospace R&D lab., talk about redundancy!) I was just trying to describe them for others who may not have worked with them before. When designed properly they can actually take up less space.
I guess now I'm starting my own pile of dead controller parts. Grand total to date,....one. But it's a start. ;Playful I also have many other pieces of dead equipment (i.e. pumps, lights, heaters, etc.) over the years as no mechanical or electrical device lives forever.
To wit the desire for a more modular system. I believe that the vast majority of people would be capable of pulling the plug from a single dead power module that needs replacing and temporarily plug it into a wall socket (via extension cord if need be) until their favorite supplier/deliverer (i.e. Amazon Prime) shipped a new module out. The rest of the system just keeps chugging along. No real need to keep a spare of every item on hand. Factories have been operating this way for years.
Hi @Dub, while I agree with your basic premise, I don't think that this is an excuse to accept shoddy equipment. Actually I think it is the exact opposite. It is through these exchanges that the manufacturers can get some real world feedback on their products. The rest of my system has been operating flawlessly for years, so I do think that Apex is a pretty good system. But no one can deny, with all the real world feedback, that the EB832s have some "room for improvement". I'm willing to bet that someone at Neptune is reading all these post and hopefully will be taking it into some consideration. Fingers crossed! With the competition ramping up, it would be in their best interest.
(Just saw that a couple more post were made while I was typing. All comments welcome. The more the better for the manufacturers to get a good perspective on the matter.)
P.S. Hope I didn't come across as too harsh on anyone, not at all my intention, but sometimes hard in written word.
I believe that the HYDROS system is kind of taking that modular type of approach you are speaking of to be honest. With the separate modules linked and controlling a couple functions if one where to go out you can change some functions and cables and await a replacement module. I like the function of my wave engine so I’m seriously curious on it. I’m not a fan of the outlet setup they have with it though. Time will tell how this new player competes.
While I agree all things will eventually fail I don’t think a couple years is not near long enough. and there seems to be these failures frequently is all.
**But in defense of the products. **
A lot of people mount these controllers in horrible locations that see a ton of saltwater moisture. THE most caustic environment there is. Others I think have them in no air environment that are overheating them internally. Mine is in a cabinet away from moisture and with lots of airspace.
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U
User1
Guest
Actually you missed it. Didn't say you disliked Neptune. Also didn't say you needed a whole spare of everything from head unit to plugs. I did say hobbyists should have spares and redundancy. I also gave you examples of spares and redundancy. It isn't uncommon. And yes, I took it and ran. No gas. No brakes. Just the facts. I'm not going to strap my rear to a rocket trying to reach low earth orbit with no spares or redundancy built in. Yeah - extreme but again a spare is a spare...
As I stated I have a little bit of redundancy and spares built into my system and it has nothing to do with trust. It has to do with common sense and mitigating risk to the best of my ability and comfort level. An example if you will.
Everything is running fine in our home. Car driving down the road hits a power line. Knocks out power. Power goes off. 45 minutes utility company restores power but in the process their system fails and sends in 3 times the power into our neighborhood blowing 189 homes main circuit breakers. In the process those of us closest to the entry point had appliances, solar inverters, and other systems blown. I lost two refrigerators, solar inverter, smart plugs, and....my EB832. No lights, no return pumps (remember I have 2 x Cor 15's), and a Cor 20. The Cor 20 is plugged into its own outlet on the wall. This is the important piece - the Cor 20.
It takes us a bit of time to figure out why power isn't on but neighbors are. Reset the main and than work through the house to see what works and doesn't. Tank is off line but I know I need to get flow restarted. EB832 is offline but the Cor 20 in the wall outlet can manage flow. So I can ignore the tank for now since flow is going.
In my setup had I only had the Cor 15's I would have a problem. Since I had the Cor 20, in its wall outlet, I had flow and could focus on more important things. Turns out the next day when I was able to assess the energy bar it was as simple as resetting it and everything was back to normal.
Now - I could have had a spare pump and solved the issue. Not anything unique to Neptune apex. I could also have a generator, etc. My point in this wall of text is that I had a simple design within my controller ecosystem that could handle a freak accident which this was.
Anyway it is what it is. We disagree. All good and all the best!
Waters
"...in perfect isolation, here behind my wall."
You have to open a ticket with Neptune support.....they come back and tell you yours is defective and they give you the option of either sending it in for repair, or buying a replacement at half cost. That fact that they are willing to do that either tells me that A - They have EXTREMELY good customer service, or B - they know there are issues with the EB8232. I think it is a combination of both lol.
Thales
Valuable Member
Why do you think spare controller parts aren't a given in this hobby? Why would we think that a hobby controller is different than any other piece of equipment we use? Given the high cost of reef systems and the low cost of the controller, why wouldn't you keep backups on site? Hobby equipment isn't bulletproof, none of it is, so some find it prudent to have a back up controller and EB832 on site, along with spare returns, dosing feed pumps and anything else I consider critical to the running of the system. I have a back up trident, not because I have any reason to think there is something wrong with the product, but because everything can bork and I consider the trident critical to my system.
If they fail a lot because people put install them in sub optimal locations, what is the known issue that Neptune has failed to tell people about?
I get it, I would love the inexpensive controllers for the hobby to be bullet proof. Hell, I would love the expensive 'professional' controllers we used at the Steinhart Aquarium to be bullet proof. I would love any of the reef equipment to be bullet proof.
Fwiw, I have three EB832's running on my home lab, and two at the coral spawning lab, for over 4 years. Haven't had an issue with any of them. Still have backups at both locations.
Thanks for the discussion and happy Thanksgiving!
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