Engineer goby

[Yakashka]

I would have opted out.

 

[c2l2parker]

My initial reaction was 3-4 inches, but I suppose it really depends on what other livestock you have. If there was very little else in the tank, then maybe it could be bigger, but most of us like to put several critters in our tanks.

 

[cabinreefer]

I had one and ended up getting rid of it a week later. It dug out all underneath my rocks and it made the tank look super bad(which I could deal with). But then it kept throwing sand everywhere and ended up cover my $150 meat coral in sand and it ended up dying from it so I had to get rid of it before it destroyed anything else

 

[Reefpharmer]

Engineer gobies need sand.

This is not true. I have a goby in my barebottom 300. He does sometimes hangout under rocks but he also stays in open areas and swims up to grab food. Got him pretty small and now he is about 7 inches

 

[eatbreakfast]

This is not true. I have a goby in my barebottom 300. He does sometimes hangout under rocks but he also stays in open areas and swims up to grab food. Got him pretty small and now he is about 7 inches

Let me rephrase that then: engineer gobies need sand if they are going to be kept ethically. Except for when they are juveniles, the rest of their lifecycle is tied to the sandbed. Once they settle from juvenile stage they are only ever found in the trenches that they dig. Their instinct is to build a burrow, this is their primary defense from predators in the wild. Without that basic protection, their instinct tells them they are not safe. This leads to stress, most notably in the form of cortisol, which in turn will affect nearly every other of it's biological functions in a negative way. The fact that it has done so well so far is a testament to it's resiliency, not as an example of recommended husbandry.

 

[Oohkris123]

My lfs has a goby about 6" in 50g bare-bottom tank for over 3 years...its always poking it's head out in between the frags and corals for sale. I think they don't need a sand bed

 

[Triggerfriend]

Personally, my engineer goby never really uses the sand. When he was in my 60 gallon, he lived inside this hollow fake reef thing I had. Now, in my 75 gallon, and he acts like a free swimmer.

 

[graffitireef]

The key to making sure your rocks dont fall down whether its a goby, eel, or whatever is making sure the rocks are sitting on the bottom of the tank before you put the substrate down and using acrylic rods for extra strength. by having the rocks sit securely on the bottom of the tank, the goby can dig all day long and he wont cause a collapse.

 

[Anthonykp17]

Let me rephrase that then: engineer gobies need sand if they are going to be kept ethically. Except for when they are juveniles, the rest of their lifecycle is tied to the sandbed. Once they settle from juvenile stage they are only ever found in the trenches that they dig. Their instinct is to build a burrow, this is their primary defense from predators in the wild. Without that basic protection, their instinct tells them they are not safe. This leads to stress, most notably in the form of cortisol, which in turn will affect nearly every other of it's biological functions in a negative way. The fact that it has done so well so far is a testament to it's resiliency, not as an example of recommended husbandry.

Lol you must be a whisperer. Ethically why take any fish out of the ocean then. Pretty sure my tangs don’t like my little 265 gallon tank Bare bottom tanks are fine, just make sure you have a lots of rock with different caves and hiding places. But on a side not a 29 cube is way to small for this fish. I would take it out sooner than later. Simple for the reason a big fish makes a lot of waste. You don’t want or need that

 

[eatbreakfast]

Lol you must be a whisperer. Ethically why take any fish out of the ocean then. Pretty sure my tangs don’t like my little 265 gallon tank Bare bottom tanks are fine, just make sure you have a lots of rock with different caves and hiding places. But on a side not a 29 cube is way to small for this fish. I would take it out sooner than later. Simple for the reason a big fish makes a lot of waste. You don’t want or need that

One could argue it's not ethical to keep tangs in aquaria, however this thread is specific to engineer gobies. Engineer gobies are a site oriented fish, meaning they have a site they choose and pretty much stay there. These territories are comparable in size to aquaria. They are given food and removed from predators. The only ethical concerns are not from taking fish like the ocean, but rather providing for their needs. For a burrowing fish, this means providing a sandbed.

 

[DSC reef]

We had a pair of engineer gobies in a 125 full of sand. They were burrowing machines. They had there one spot where they lived and funneled through the day. The only time they came out to swim was when food hit the water. Personally I wouldn't keep one in a biocube but never would I keep one without sand.

 

[Anthonykp17]

My point was we take Fish out of there natural habitat all the time. If you do it to one why not the other. They may be borrowing machines but they can survive without it in a Reef tank To judge someone on there ethics for keeping this fish without sand imo is just wrong. The garden ell needs sand. It will die in a short time without it. Engineer goby prefers sand but doesn’t need it to survive in a tank. This is what the op asked. Now if you wanted to say the fish is a burrowing machine and loves to borrow so if you can it would be better to prefer sand. But to say it’s unethical and the Fish will be stressed and die isn’t true. That’s my point

 

[themcnertney]

Can we talk about how they can be ruthless killers at night?

I had a couple in my 220. If I recall, the biggest of the two was at least 12". One died for unknown reasons (think it was killed by the other EG) and the other died because I dropped a rock on its head. I started to have fish disappear on me. Asking some help from R2R (especially @Tahoe61 & @DSC reef ) I came to the conclusion that these fish might be silent killers at night. Although no evidence that this happened, it is something to think about.

 

[eatbreakfast]

My point was we take Fish out of there natural habitat all the time. If you do it to one why not the other. They may be borrowing machines but they can survive without it in a Reef tank To judge someone on there ethics for keeping this fish without sand imo is just wrong. The garden ell needs sand. It will die in a short time without it. Engineer goby prefers sand but doesn’t need it to survive in a tank. This is what the op asked. Now if you wanted to say the fish is a burrowing machine and loves to borrow so if you can it would be better to prefer sand. But to say it’s unethical and the Fish will be stressed and die isn’t true. That’s my point

Then you are failing to understand what causes stress in fish. Engineer gobies use their burrows as a defense from predators. It is a safe haven. And while predators are taken out of the equation in aquaria, the fish we keep don't know that. So depriving a fish of it's primary defense is stressful to the fish. Any loud noise or surprising movement and there is the instinct to seek it's best source of protection, but by not providing a sand bed the engineer goby is forced to make do with what else exists. However that causes stress. And stress is not some arbitrary catch all notion. Fish, much like humans, produce cortisol when stressed. And the effects of cortisol in fish has been studied. It compromises their immune system, stunts growth, is secreted by fish so can be absorbed by other fish and leads to overall shorter lives. It may not lead to an immediate demise but certainly effects it's quality. So yes, it is a matter of ethics in whether or not to provide sand for an engineer goby.

 

[Anthonykp17]

Then you are failing to understand what causes stress in fish. Engineer gobies use their burrows as a defense from predators. It is a safe haven. And while predators are taken out of the equation in aquaria, the fish we keep don't know that. So depriving a fish of it's primary defense is stressful to the fish. Any loud noise or surprising movement and there is the instinct to seek it's best source of protection, but by not providing a sand bed the engineer goby is forced to make do with what else exists. However that causes stress. And stress is not some arbitrary catch all notion. Fish, much like humans, produce cortisol when stressed. And the effects of cortisol in fish has been studied. It compromises their immune system, stunts growth, is secreted by fish so can be absorbed by other fish and leads to overall shorter lives. It may not lead to an immediate demise but certainly effects it's quality. So yes, it is a matter of ethics in whether or not to provide sand for an engineer goby.

They soon realize there are no predators in the tank. Once again have no idea how you can say this Fish will even recognize who feeds them and I even trained my to feed off a stick Your discounting a fishes ability to adapt and learn from there environment

As far as them being predator at night this could be true but I didn’t have mine with any fish small enough to be prey. So can’t state one way or the other.

 

[eatbreakfast]

They soon realize there are no predators in the tank. Once again have no idea how you can say this Fish will even recognize who feeds them and I even trained my to feed off a stick Your discounting a fishes ability to adapt and learn from there environment

It is very true fish are adaptable. But if that were the case that they don't worry about predators in captivity, then those that are kept with sand would abandon it because there is no need for a burrow and they would figure that out. It takes energy to build and maintain a burrow. However, what we see is that they remain tied to the sand. Even ones that have spent time in a bare bottom tank will quickly go to the sand and construct a burrow when presented with sand. If, as you say, there is no need for that, then they wouldn't do it. But the reality is they do.

 

[DeniseAndy]

My engineer is a landscape designer. When it gets bored of one look, it makes another one. I could never keep corals on the sandbed that I did not want covered. All rock work was moved to under the sand and on the tank bottom (done by the goby himself). It is a great fish and not shy at feeding time. I have had him over 4years and got him when he was over 8". Cool fish, but you definitely need the right environment for them to be them. If you are not willing to let them be engineers, I feel they are not right right for the tank. JMO

 

[Anthonykp17]

I didn’t say there was no need. I stated they don’t need it to survive long term in an aquarium. I had mine with sand for 2 years. Then last 3 year I took the sand out. So mine lived both way and to say i no nothing about Fish is incorrect. I currently had 80 Fish. Think I might know a little

 

[eatbreakfast]

I didn’t say there was no need. I stated they don’t need it to survive long term in an aquarium. I had mine with sand for 2 years. Then last 3 year I took the sand out. So mine lived both way and to say i no nothing about Fish is incorrect. I currently had 80 Fish. Think I might know a little

Nobody said you didn't know anything about fish. However, when looking at their behavior, health and overall well being, sandless is not the way to keep them. There are so many appropriate species of fish to keep that will do great in a bare bottom tanks that there is no need to keep an engineer goby in one.

When we decide we are going to house any creature, we take it upon ourselves to provide what is best for that creature. To decide that it doesn't need something for which it is designed for millenia only shows great hubris.

 

[Anthonykp17]

Ok I will admit I had to look that word up (hubris)

Let’s get back to the op. A 29 biocube is too small for this fish. I don’t care if you have 9 inches of sand in it