Fish Dying Within Hours

[ToxicPaly]

I 100% know you meant well. I feel like sometimes these things are over thought and sometimes lead to negative consequences of already stressed out fish.

Also if you plan to have a QT tank you would likely be more confident to skip the FW dip since you have plenty of time and a space to treat if anything pops up.

 

[W31Olds]

Also, a factor is how large the bag is and how much water. I've bought items from different on-line suppliers and some ship with larger bags more water some not so much. My last order was delayed by a day but not a problem as he ships with larger bags more water.

 

[tim7711]

They were very small bags of water tbh compared to when I purchase from LFS. I did call my prior LFS but they had a wait of 4-6 weeks for fish I requested that's why I went the route of BRS.

Any suggestions on where to purchase from online for specific fish? I do want to try with the Black Frostbite and Black Snowflake clowns again...

 

[Tamale]

They were very small bags of water tbh compared to when I purchase from LFS. I did call my prior LFS but they had a wait of 4-6 weeks for fish I requested that's why I went the route of BRS.

Any suggestions on where to purchase from online for specific fish? I do want to try with the Black Frostbite and Black Snowflake clowns again...

Dr. Reefs QT does conditioned and QT’d fish. If he doesn’t have them on hand there can be a wait. Usually no more than a few weeks.

TSA (Top Shelf Aquatics) also has a lot of clownfish on hand and they are an amazing store. I normally do corals with them but have heard good things about their livestock and shipping.

 

[W31Olds]

Why not call BRS and get replacements?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Sorry, no - I meant ammonia building up in the shipping bag, not the tank itself.

 

[tim7711]

Why not call BRS and get replacements?

I have reached out to them via email. Will see if they have updates come next week :)

 

[tim7711]

Sorry, no - I meant ammonia building up in the shipping bag, not the tank itself.

What do I do to avoid this in the future? Or prevent loss of fish?

 

[W31Olds]

I had some problems with opening bags an added water slowly last year so now I just contact the vendor and ask them what their salinity is and setup my QT Tank to match. When I receive the fish I Temp acclimate them then open the bags and add the fish (not the water) to my QT Tank directly.

 

[HenryFN]

If the fish were shipped overnight, ammonia builds up. At the same time, carbon dioxide builds up in the bag reducing the pH. That renders the ammonia less toxic. Then, during acclimation, the pH rises faster than the ammonia is being diluted, causing the ammonia to become toxic. There could also be an osmotic issue as well - marine fish don’t handle salinity rises well.

So you have to get them out of the bag quickly so they don't get shocked by the sudden rise in ph and the ammonia, but where do you put them? Wouldn't it also be a shock to go into the tank where the salinity could be different? Is there a time window where it's safe to have them in the bag to drip acclimate? Do you make up a tank with lower salinity to float the bag in then add them to that and drip acclimate them to the salinity?

Sorry I'm just trying to understand how to avoid all the different ways you can shock new fish. I've always just drip acclimated in the bag but that's freshwater and saltwater fish seen so much more delicate.

 

[Coinzmans Reef]

You may have caused gill damage when you opened the bag and allowed oxygen in and co2 out causing the ph to rise. This can make the ammonia very toxic if the fish aren’t removed from the shipping water/bag in a timely fashion

Spot on, after I realized this was going on I stopped the LFS from bagging my fish. I had the LFS place the fish into my specimen container and I dumped them in a cooler with a heater, power head and water that matched their tanks. At the end of a long ride they went into the specimen container (no net) into the quarantine tank for a month all the time getting closer to my tanks parameters.
I never lost another fish after adopting this method of transport.
I have tested the bag water after opening and had readings of ammonia close to 8ppm for one 4.5" fish after two hours. Before I used to dump the bag water into a bucket and drip acclimate for 1.5 hours than drop into tank, this method was around 75% successful.

 

[W31Olds]

You match the salinity of your Tank with Salinity that the vendor ships. If you don't QT (not recommended) or purchase pre QT'd fish I would probably get a foodsafe 20 gallon tote, a heater, and air airstone and prepare that to acclimate your fish over a 24 hour period slowly raising the salinity to match your DT.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

What do I do to avoid this in the future? Or prevent loss of fish?

Just follow the acclimation instructions that posted - for shipped fish. Fish from a local store with short bag times won’t have this issue.

 

[Coinzmans Reef]

My LFS keeps the temp 82-84 and salinity between 1.016 and 1.017 My tanks are 77f and 1.026

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

My LFS keeps the temp 82-84 and salinity between 1.016 and 1.017 My tanks are 77f and 1.026

Wow - I really wish LFS wouldn’t keep fish in low salinity like that. They’re keeping them too warm as well. I can’t imagine how many fish they sell that end up stressed out or dying because their systems don’t match their customers.

You need to take special care acclimating fish up that far, you shouldn’t just drip or float them. Using a tank of intermediate salinity works, so does lowering your tank salinity (can’t do that if inverts are present though).

 

[Coinzmans Reef]

This store has been in business for close to forty years and that's almost how long I have been visiting them. They have close to a hundred tanks with a large turn over, even on weekdays you will wait in line. I get they are trying to limit losses for the store but disease free fish are also good for us.
Lately I just go to a reef only store where the tanks values are close to mine. My large fish purchases are over. Now and again I will buy a small fish to add into my small DT that holds four fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

This store has been in business for close to forty years and that's almost how long I have been visiting them. They have close to a hundred tanks with a large turn over, even on weekdays you will wait in line. I get they are trying to limit losses for the store but disease free fish are also good for us.
Lately I just go to a reef only store where the tanks values are close to mine. My large fish purchases are over. Now and again I will buy a small fish to add into my small DT that holds four fish.

Yep, I started in this business 50+ years ago. Back then, we all kept our tanks at 1.022, so stores keeping their fish in lower salinity was no big deal. Now days, with most aquarists keeping their tanks at 1.026, it becomes very problematic. The warm water temps are also just plain wrong.