Fish immune to disease?

MnFish1

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That´s how must people will understand that article - but - it is always a but - these articles only deal with the original substances and knowing that MFO is involved in fish and that the breakdown in water probably are done by bacteria rise the question of metabolites. As an example - metallic mercury is not of concern for us but when it comes out in nature - bacteria convert it into Methylmercury that can be bioaccumulated. If you try to search for metallic mercury in sediment - you can think it is of no concern because it is not there - but its metabolite is - and it is deadly for us.

Sincerely Lasse
Right - you only quoted part of my post - which said 'which is worse treatment of a disease or the possibility of metabolites'- or something like that. In any case. I was not talking about using prazipro in a display tank - or in a tank the fish would be exposed to for a long time. It was more like the case of a QT tank - in which case, all of the drug is gone after 9 days. The mercury analogy is interesting - I would presume that metalo-metabolites would be longer lasting than purely organic compounds. I.e. one reason not to use copper in a display tank. It does make me wonder - If you use natural fish food (i.e. live clams, etc - or even Frozen LRS) routinely - do you think mercury from the food will build up in the tank (the metabolites?)
 

atoll

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I have tried two Royal grammas before but one always seems to kill the other, have one now
What I do is buy them all together, so for a pair I buy one slightly larger than the other and introduce together. The right environment also helps. I never had the problem of one killing the other.
 

MnFish1

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24x an average of say 3" = 72" of fish in 130 gallons and you think that's low density. I doubt people would agree with you there but if you think so.
Lets look at it this way - lets say you have 10 5 inch pipefish in a 130 gallon tank, vs 10 5 inch tangs. (I know thats a silly example) - I was just trying to illustrate the point. The CI concentration in the pipefish tank should be much much lower due to the size of the fish involved. I.e less surface area for attachment. I probably wasnt completely clear as to what I was saying
 

Paul B

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@Paul B, Then this one of the 'missing pieces of the puzzle' I was asking for. I believe that many people read your, @Lasse 's and @atoll 's posts and assume that you are saying that by some process, even diseased fish added to the tank do not die.
I don't think any of us ever said that or eluded to it.
When you say 'All fish in my tank die of old age', do you really mean 'all fish in my tank that survive the initial transport, acclimation, etc process 'die of old age'? I would suggest that that is the course of events in most tanks. I know you don't like tangs particularly but how many of your tangs lived to be 40 years old (which is their natural life-span)?
I say all fish in my tank die of old except the ones that jump out, starve or are bullied. Of course some fish die from something that is not a communicable disease like my last 10 year old copperband which I posted about. He had some sort of neurological problem where he couldn't strike the food right in front of him. But that is not something other fish will get.

I do not keep tangs 40 years and neither does anyone else in a home tank so whatever the average age of a tang is in a home tank, thats when your fish should die. Mine usually live to about 10. My moorish Idol was I think 8 years old when he died which stinks for a fish that size and it is probably not old age. But for a Moorish Idol that is almost a record. Just like 10 year old copperbands. I am sure they live longer but most people can't keep them 10 weeks so I figure if that fish is 10 years old, that is a very good age for a copperband and I will call it old age.

It certainly is not what the majority of fish on these forums die from like some silly parasite.
Humans can live to 122 years old but the average age is about 80.
I do not think feeding bacteria or live vs dry vs frozen foods plays a significant role in maintaining immunity to CI. I.e any varied diet will work.
Then you are thinking wrong and as a scientist you should realize that and I have posted numerous scientific articles about it as it concerns fish, not people. Gut bacteria controls a fishes immunity. Copper, prizapro and long quarantine will kill that bacteria causing the fish to lose immunity which is the main reason for disease forums.

Time to plant the rest of my plants.
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atoll

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Lets look at it this way - lets say you have 10 5 inch pipefish in a 130 gallon tank, vs 10 5 inch tangs. (I know thats a silly example) - I was just trying to illustrate the point. The CI concentration in the pipefish tank should be much much lower due to the size of the fish involved. I.e less surface area for attachment. I probably wasnt completely clear as to what I was saying
Or more fish = more the chance of fish catching itch etc. Also it's about susceptibility of each species of fish to catch say itch.many of my fish would be considered high risk itch wise as I have pointed out.
 
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Lasse

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If it contain mercury - it is the form of methylmercury because it is the one that will bioaccumulate in fat. Yes it will bioaccumulate if it comes into the system. If you drop a small amount of metallic mercury in your tank - bacteria will transform this into methylmercury and it will bioaccumulate. I know you next comment - why using live and/or frozen fresh food instead of dry food. I will say - it does not matter - methylmercury is allover today. But for sure - I would not go down to the riverside here in my hometown and catch my aquarium food - why? Its only around 15 years since the factory that produce Chlorine shout down here. They have work for 15 years in order to clean the ground - mercury everywhere.

Sincerely Lasse
 

MnFish1

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Or more fish = more the chance of fish catching itch etc. Also it's about susceptibility of each species of fish to catch say itch.many of my fish would be considered high risk itch wise as I have pointed out.
I just read an article about this - high 'susceptibility' fish had a 70% incidence. Low sensitivity fish had a 50% incidence. The way I've heard it described here are that the numbers are much different. Additionally - in the Vietnam study 100% of multiple species had CI infection. Sailfin tangs and Moorish idols were among the least likely. Hepatus tangs and puffers among the highest. There was a huge seasonal variation. Which the authors suggest may help aquarists decide how to manage their tanks (I assume they mean not purchasing fish in the fall, but rather the summer)
I don't think any of us ever said that or eluded to it.
Atoll just said it about his 2 royal grammas with CI that survived. I added why I think thats the case. I do believe you have a relatively low stocking density 20 fish that are 5 inches long are much different than 20 fish that are a inch long. A pipefish is different than an emperor angel (much more surface area on the angel compared to the pipefish). Less surface area means less CI released into the water.
Then you are thinking wrong and as a scientist you should realize that and I have posted numerous scientific articles about it as it concerns fish, not people. Gut bacteria controls a fishes immunity. Copper, prizapro and long quarantine will kill that bacteria causing the fish to lose immunity which is the main reason for disease forums.
I have read your articles. I believe you have picked certain sentences and ignored others. For 1, unlike what you're suggesting, putting a fish in QT (without medication) does not 'kill all the bacteria'. 2. Some medications MAY kill SOME of the bacteria but no medication kills all the bacteria. 3. Bacteria has an influence on immune function - it is not the 'only thing' - that influences 'fish immunity'. and I don't know of any article you've posted that has ever said that. In fact, every article I've ever read on fish immunity describes several 'immune organs', humoral immunity, adaptive immunity, slime coat chemicals and anti microbial proteins (The non-specific immune system). Its my reading that ALL of these things are improved when a fish is well fed and under low stress. All food is digested in the fish in the same way - whether fresh, frozen. It becomes amino acids fats and carbohydrates - and whatever vitamins are present.
I say all fish in my tank die of old except the ones that jump out, starve or are bullied. Of course some fish die from something that is not a communicable disease like my last 10 year old copperband which I posted about. He had some sort of neurological problem where he couldn't strike the food right in front of him. But that is not something other fish will get.
And the ones with parasites that die soon after being put in - which was my point.
If it contain mercury - it is the form of methylmercury because it is the one that will bioaccumulate in fat. Yes it will bioaccumulate if it comes into the system. If you drop a small amount of metallic mercury in your tank - bacteria will transform this into methylmercury and it will bioaccumulate. I know you next comment - why using live and/or frozen fresh food instead of dry food. I will say - it does not matter - methylmercury is allover today. But for sure - I would not go down to the riverside here in my hometown and catch my aquarium food - why? Its only around 15 years since the factory that produce Chlorine shout down here. They have work for 15 years in order to clean the ground - mercury everywhere.

Sincerely Lasse
Thanks - that was my point. Dry and living foods are basically the same vis a vis toxicity
 

Paul B

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I have read your articles. I believe you have picked certain sentences and ignored others. For 1, unlike what you're suggesting, putting a fish in QT (without medication) does not 'kill all the bacteria
Mn, when you quote me, quote me exactly as I said it. Talk about picking things and leaving things out. I said, and always say "Long Quarantine" as we don't now how long gut flora live. When you leave one word out it changes the entire thing. Long quarantine in most of these threads is 70 or so days depending on who you want to listen to. 10 day quarantine won't do anything.

Like when you quote me as saying "all my fish die of old age", and you leave out the rest where I say "except" from jumping out, starving, being bullied etc. Thats totally different than "my fish only die from old age".

When I say "sick fish usually live when I throw them in my tank" I never say "always". Thats why these silly threads go on forever. If you listen to "all" the words, and don't pick the ones you like you would get the gist better.

Copper, prizapro and long quarantine will kill that bacteria
 

atoll

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I just read an article about this - high 'susceptibility' fish had a 70% incidence. Low sensitivity fish had a 50% incidence. The way I've heard it described here are that the numbers are much different. Additionally - in the Vietnam study 100% of multiple species had CI infection. Sailfin tangs and Moorish idols were among the least likely. Hepatus tangs and puffers among the highest. There was a huge seasonal variation. Which the authors suggest may help aquarists decide how to manage their tanks (I assume they mean not purchasing fish in the fall, but rather the summer)

Atoll just said it about his 2 royal grammas with CI that survived. I added why I think thats the case. I do believe you have a relatively low stocking density 20 fish that are 5 inches long are much different than 20 fish that are a inch long. A pipefish is different than an emperor angel (much more surface area on the angel compared to the pipefish). Less surface area means less CI released into the water.

I have read your articles. I believe you have picked certain sentences and ignored others. For 1, unlike what you're suggesting, putting a fish in QT (without medication) does not 'kill all the bacteria'. 2. Some medications MAY kill SOME of the bacteria but no medication kills all the bacteria. 3. Bacteria has an influence on immune function - it is not the 'only thing' - that influences 'fish immunity'. and I don't know of any article you've posted that has ever said that. In fact, every article I've ever read on fish immunity describes several 'immune organs', humoral immunity, adaptive immunity, slime coat chemicals and anti microbial proteins (The non-specific immune system). Its my reading that ALL of these things are improved when a fish is well fed and under low stress. All food is digested in the fish in the same way - whether fresh, frozen. It becomes amino acids fats and carbohydrates - and whatever vitamins are present.

And the ones with parasites that die soon after being put in - which was my point.

Thanks - that was my point. Dry and living foods are basically the same vis a vis toxicity
Am sorry what is it you believe I said?
Other than, I have put RGs in my tank with itch that fought it off within 36hours and didn't die. Do you mean that?
 

Paul B

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(In 2 minutes I found something about gut bacteria)​

Gut instinct​

HEALTH
The Nofima notebook: 2 of 9


Dr Shruti Gupta
by Dr Shruti Gupta
14 April 2020, at 10:41am
Microbiome scientists at Nofima are working on uncovering the complex cross-talk between the fish and its microbes and aim to improve the health of farmed fish.

Microbiome: an organ in its own right​

The hundreds of trillions of microbes that reside on and within animals, including fish, are collectively referred to as the microbiota. These complex microbial communities, which interact with each other, the host and the host’s environment, are called the microbiome.
At Nofima, I work with a group of scientists who are collaborating to explore the influence of the microbiome, associated with its dietary effects in aquaculture. Currently, our research is focusing on investigating the effects of the microbiome on system performance.
Preparing gut bacteria for analysis
Preparing gut bacteria for analysis
© Nofima

Why should we study the fish microbiome?​

The highly complex and mixed microbial population which lives in the intestine of animals is known as the gut microbiota. A stable and resilient microbiome is linked to maintaining the overall health and well‐being of the host. Many efforts have already been directed to understand the interactions between host and microbe, as well as between microbes themselves, in humans and other terrestrial animals. Now we know that gut microbiota plays a crucial role in supporting the host’s intestinal stability as well as metabolic and immune functions. As with humans and other animals, the gut microbial communities of lower vertebrates such as fish can also contribute to maintaining the host organism’s immune equilibrium, digestion and nutrition.
The fish microbiota is diverse and includes protists, bacteria, archaea, fungi and viruses. It is shaped by several host-associated factors – such as diet, age, geographical location, stress, genetics and drugs. Among the microbial communities in a fish’s gut, bacteria are the most abundant and dominant microorganisms. They maintain an intimate relationship with the gut mucosa (the inner lining of the gastrointestinal tract) and impart substantial functions in a healthy individual – they co-exist to contribute, among many functions, to the production of vitamins, synthesis of amino acids and production of bacterial metabolites.

Nofima’s strategy to investigate the fish microbiome​

Many aspects of fish microbiome research are still something of a black box, as researchers remain uncertain about how, when and where the fish acquires its microbiota. We need this information in order to maximise the potential of this new field in aquaculture. Microbiome research is inherently interdisciplinary and Nofima has a special advantage since its work ecompasses disciplines such as fish health, nutrition, genetics, production biology and food processing – all of which can collaborate in opening up the black box.
The majority of previous studies have focused upon the structure of the fish microbiome, providing little knowledge about the immense functional potential of the gut microbiome. At Nofima, some of our objectives are to understand and study how the microbiome cooperatively functions as communities in different rearing environments (eg its effect on biofilter activity) and how it interacts with the host tissue (that is, its role in nutrient conversion, health and disease). Furthermore, we aim to pinpoint key functionalities of these microbes in the host, which could be of great value for the future development of the aquaculture sector. In addition, fish diseases are one of the largest challenges in aquaculture production, and, as a sector, when we commit to addressing them, our highest priority tends to be working to identify the single pathogenic microbe causing the disease. At Nofima, by contrast, we challenge the status quo to identify the rest of the microbiota and determine if they can confer some resistance to the pathogen.
In the face of rapidly progressive deterioration of skin health, studies aim to get a deeper understanding of the role of the microbiome and the mechanisms of disease resistance. In recent years, dietary studies have shown that variation in microbiome composition is mainly driven by certain bacteria, but these types of bacteria are not always the same between studies. At the same time, changes are also seen to occur in circumstances where there is a high level of connectivity to external microbiomes (eg contact with varied microbes from the surrounding water or from other fish living in the same tank). A limitation is that we have not yet measured absolute microbial cell numbers in the intestine. Investigations into defining underlying mechanisms of host-microbe interactions are currently being developed at Nofima.

If you get bored, you can read all you want about how gut bacteria affects fish health.
Here is another excerpt:
It's by these guys if you want to read the whole article, but it's long:

REVIEW article​

Front. Microbiol., 04 May 2018 | https://doi.org/10.3389/fmicb.2018.00873

The Gut Microbiota of Marine Fish​

Sian Egerton1,2,
newprofile_default_profileimage_new.jpg
Sarah Culloty2,3,
newprofile_default_profileimage_new.jpg
Jason Whooley4, Catherine Stanton5,6 and R. Paul Ross1,5,6*
  • 1School of Microbiology, University College Cork, Cork, Ireland
  • 2School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences, University College Cork, Cork, Ireland
  • 3Environmental Research Institute, University College Cork, Cork, Ireland
  • 4Bio-marine Ingredients Ireland Ltd., Killybegs, Ireland
  • 5Teagasc Research Centre, Fermoy, Ireland
  • 6APC Microbiome Ireland, Teagasc and University College Cork, Cork, Ireland

A Historical Overview​

Fish and other marine animals have a unique and intimate interaction with their surrounding environment and, in turn, with the microorganisms that co-exist there. The world’s oceans are teeming with microorganisms. It is estimated that 3.6 × 1030 microbial cells account for more than 90% of the total oceanic biomass, while the number of viral particles may be one hundred fold greater (International Council for the Exploration of the Sea [ICES], 2011). The relationship that fish have with surrounding microorganisms can be mutualistic or pathogenic. Like humans and other mammals, fishes’ associated symbiotic gut microbiota play a role in nutritional provisioning, metabolic homeostasis and immune defence (Gómez and Balcázar, 2008; Sullam et al., 2012).
 
Corals.com

MnFish1

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(In 2 minutes I found something about gut bacteria)​

Gut instinct​

HEALTH
The Nofima notebook: 2 of 9


Dr Shruti Gupta
by Dr Shruti Gupta
14 April 2020, at 10:41am
Microbiome scientists at Nofima are working on uncovering the complex cross-talk between the fish and its microbes and aim to improve the health of farmed fish.

Microbiome: an organ in its own right​

The hundreds of trillions of microbes that reside on and within animals, including fish, are collectively referred to as the microbiota. These complex microbial communities, which interact with each other, the host and the host’s environment, are called the microbiome.
At Nofima, I work with a group of scientists who are collaborating to explore the influence of the microbiome, associated with its dietary effects in aquaculture. Currently, our research is focusing on investigating the effects of the microbiome on system performance.
Preparing gut bacteria for analysis
Preparing gut bacteria for analysis
© Nofima

Why should we study the fish microbiome?​

The highly complex and mixed microbial population which lives in the intestine of animals is known as the gut microbiota. A stable and resilient microbiome is linked to maintaining the overall health and well‐being of the host. Many efforts have already been directed to understand the interactions between host and microbe, as well as between microbes themselves, in humans and other terrestrial animals. Now we know that gut microbiota plays a crucial role in supporting the host’s intestinal stability as well as metabolic and immune functions. As with humans and other animals, the gut microbial communities of lower vertebrates such as fish can also contribute to maintaining the host organism’s immune equilibrium, digestion and nutrition.
The fish microbiota is diverse and includes protists, bacteria, archaea, fungi and viruses. It is shaped by several host-associated factors – such as diet, age, geographical location, stress, genetics and drugs. Among the microbial communities in a fish’s gut, bacteria are the most abundant and dominant microorganisms. They maintain an intimate relationship with the gut mucosa (the inner lining of the gastrointestinal tract) and impart substantial functions in a healthy individual – they co-exist to contribute, among many functions, to the production of vitamins, synthesis of amino acids and production of bacterial metabolites.

Nofima’s strategy to investigate the fish microbiome​

Many aspects of fish microbiome research are still something of a black box, as researchers remain uncertain about how, when and where the fish acquires its microbiota. We need this information in order to maximise the potential of this new field in aquaculture. Microbiome research is inherently interdisciplinary and Nofima has a special advantage since its work ecompasses disciplines such as fish health, nutrition, genetics, production biology and food processing – all of which can collaborate in opening up the black box.
The majority of previous studies have focused upon the structure of the fish microbiome, providing little knowledge about the immense functional potential of the gut microbiome. At Nofima, some of our objectives are to understand and study how the microbiome cooperatively functions as communities in different rearing environments (eg its effect on biofilter activity) and how it interacts with the host tissue (that is, its role in nutrient conversion, health and disease). Furthermore, we aim to pinpoint key functionalities of these microbes in the host, which could be of great value for the future development of the aquaculture sector. In addition, fish diseases are one of the largest challenges in aquaculture production, and, as a sector, when we commit to addressing them, our highest priority tends to be working to identify the single pathogenic microbe causing the disease. At Nofima, by contrast, we challenge the status quo to identify the rest of the microbiota and determine if they can confer some resistance to the pathogen.
In the face of rapidly progressive deterioration of skin health, studies aim to get a deeper understanding of the role of the microbiome and the mechanisms of disease resistance. In recent years, dietary studies have shown that variation in microbiome composition is mainly driven by certain bacteria, but these types of bacteria are not always the same between studies. At the same time, changes are also seen to occur in circumstances where there is a high level of connectivity to external microbiomes (eg contact with varied microbes from the surrounding water or from other fish living in the same tank). A limitation is that we have not yet measured absolute microbial cell numbers in the intestine. Investigations into defining underlying mechanisms of host-microbe interactions are currently being developed at Nofima.

If you get bored, you can read all you want about how gut bacteria affects fish health.
Here is another excerpt:
It's by these guys if you want to read the whole article, but it's long:

REVIEW article​

Front. Microbiol., 04 May 2018 | https://doi.org/10.3389/fmicb.2018.00873

The Gut Microbiota of Marine Fish​

Sian Egerton1,2,
newprofile_default_profileimage_new.jpg
Sarah Culloty2,3,
newprofile_default_profileimage_new.jpg
Jason Whooley4, Catherine Stanton5,6 and R. Paul Ross1,5,6*
  • 1School of Microbiology, University College Cork, Cork, Ireland
  • 2School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences, University College Cork, Cork, Ireland
  • 3Environmental Research Institute, University College Cork, Cork, Ireland
  • 4Bio-marine Ingredients Ireland Ltd., Killybegs, Ireland
  • 5Teagasc Research Centre, Fermoy, Ireland
  • 6APC Microbiome Ireland, Teagasc and University College Cork, Cork, Ireland

A Historical Overview​

Fish and other marine animals have a unique and intimate interaction with their surrounding environment and, in turn, with the microorganisms that co-exist there. The world’s oceans are teeming with microorganisms. It is estimated that 3.6 × 1030 microbial cells account for more than 90% of the total oceanic biomass, while the number of viral particles may be one hundred fold greater (International Council for the Exploration of the Sea [ICES], 2011). The relationship that fish have with surrounding microorganisms can be mutualistic or pathogenic. Like humans and other mammals, fishes’ associated symbiotic gut microbiota play a role in nutritional provisioning, metabolic homeostasis and immune defence (Gómez and Balcázar, 2008; Sullam et al., 2012).
This has nothing to do with the discussion
 

atoll

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My RGs had but a few spots and not struggling covered in them. If the fish were covered in spots then it would be more difficult of course.
So those few spots had gone within 36 hours and no fish were affected. Paul has also introduced fish like a copperband with more spots on it than my RGs and fully recovered with no.other fish affected.
I think we are going round in circles now and am getting tired of it. I have said all there is for me to say on the matter. Good luck with the thread, am out.
 

MnFish1

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If that has nothing to do with this discussion I am finished with this discussion. You guys have a great day. :cool:
It was what a 30 page article about the fact that there are a lot of things to discover about the fish microbiome. among other things. No where did it mention what we were discussing, i.e. your comment that fish immunity is based on gut bacteria. No where did it mention that if a fish is treated with copper, its immune system is destroyed. No where did it say that quarantined fish 'lose' their gut bacteria. No where did it say (Using your new term 'long quarantine') caused fish to lose their gut bacteria or their immune system. There were some very interesting points in there - but - after reading most of it - I guess I would have hoped you would have picked out the parts we were talking about.
Of course if the fish like my cardinals were treated, they may live, I don't know. It all depends on what the fish has and if it has anything else. Not all diseases can be cured in fish or people as it depends on many factors one being how long the fish was sick.
Yes they might have lived - many people would think thats unethical. Dumping sick fish into a tank. Yet - you seem to just shrug it off - no big deal - you assumed they died. This comes down to the crux of the issue.
Mn, when you quote me, quote me exactly as I said it. Talk about picking things and leaving things out. I said, and always say "Long Quarantine" as we don't now how long gut flora live. When you leave one word out it changes the entire thing. Long quarantine in most of these threads is 70 or so days depending on who you want to listen to. 10 day quarantine won't do anything.
I have read your posts for years. I have never heard the term "long quarantine" before. So - lets approach it from a years long standpoint, unless you have changed your mind about quarantine. BTW - what is your definition of "long quarantine"?
Like when you quote me as saying "all my fish die of old age", and you leave out the rest where I say "except" from jumping out, starving, being bullied etc. Thats totally different than "my fish only die from old age".
And - I didnt mean to leave that out - I was specifically talk ing about the fish you add and they die (like the cardinals) - without being found. BTW - How does a fish 'starve' in your tank? If you honestly think I would suggest that fish jumping out is the same thing - well that seems weird? But - If I had a bunch of fish that jumped out - I would buy a cheap mesh cover to prevent it. I mean - its possible they are trying to scratch/itch/jump because of a parasite.
When I say "sick fish usually live when I throw them in my tank" I never say "always". Thats why these silly threads go on forever. If you listen to "all" the words, and don't pick the ones you like you would get the gist better.
The reasons threads go on for ever is because one side never admits the other side has a rational thought. I have said several of your ideas have merit - along with Atoll and @Lasse. I have never heard that from the 'natural side'. Frankly.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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so proud of peers in the new tanks forum, they know better than to skip qt


i also noticed nobody stepped in the two work threads. You know I wasn’t expecting total cure first go, it was to be the efforts rewarded
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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no more tank selfies here team, you all need to be using examples of other folks tanks you cured pre and post disease. Make us a short procedural list new tankers can follow
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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We want the no qt crew to write out a bullet point list of what new keepers can do to stem the tide of this disease loss, it’s rampant.



heres my list based on reading you guys’ build threads, as a rough go-

-must have mature rocks. Either buy them matured and mailed to you, or wait two to five years in your current dry rock system before adding fish, you need the supporting maturity system for disease suppression.

-feeding, folks feed their tank the equivalent of 3x a day happy meals and we wonder why disease is rampant. Search out no quarantine setups, feed like they do only, stop the reef fast fooding

what’s some more bullet points those are my two top takeaways
 
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Squidward

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Am sure you would of only to make a controversial statement.
Who wants a tank full of dying fish with itch. I nor Paul and Lasse to name just 3 wouldn't want such.
It isnt the number of years people have been in the hobby at all but the numbers of people who have no issue with itch infecting their fish without QTing. We don't have issues with itch along with others who practice similar without QTing.

Am sure they way you keep your fish you definitely need to QT them.
3 people? amazing ratio
 

Squidward

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Yes it is indeed and my tanks have been free from the disease "marine white spot" for many years, and many different tanks - and this without any prophylactic QT or QT at all. Only adaption, And whats happen with your parasite free tank if, If you get in a single parasite by mistake? I do not know if my tank is free of the parasite but I indeed know that it is free from the disease caused by this parasite. Hopefully - I will later on know if my tank have any trace of containing the parasite Cryptocaryon irritans or not.

And what do you answer @Maritimer that have done the full QT protocol and still get the disease on a newcomer?

Sincerely Lasse
I can't answer for him but I do TTM with prazipro and it's been great! I don't have to worry about introducing parasites cause anything wet gets qurantined.
 
BRS

Have you ever had a Angelfish in your reef tank?

  • Yes and it was a model citizen (tell us which one)

    Votes: 127 32.8%
  • Yes but it did nip from time to time

    Votes: 56 14.5%
  • Yes but I had to remove it because it went rogue

    Votes: 27 7.0%
  • No but I would like to try one

    Votes: 108 27.9%
  • No and not interested

    Votes: 54 14.0%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 15 3.9%
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