Fishless cycling with Microbacter7

[plc001]

Hello All, I’m in the process of cycling my 40b. Using non-live rock and sand. The plan was to add Microbacter7 and then 2 days later add a pair of clownfish fish.

I added the Microbacter7 with a daily does of 1.5 caps per day. I never added the clownfish.

This Saturday will be 3 weeks, shall I just keep being patient and wait? No Nitrites yet.

 

[brandon429]

nitrites dont factor, we can use your ammonia though to tell if its cycled.

that above is your baseline reading. you would add liquid ammonia into the tank a few drops at a time, wait 5 mins and test, only until nh3 changes barely up, not full green

then we see in 24-48 hours if its back to that calibrated pic above. if so, you are cycled and can begin most bottle bac is ready in ten days and that action would confirm it.

we need to see the actual motion light/darker/back to light in order to help with those kinds of test kits, and only ammonia matters not the other two they do not matter whatsoever/less testing headache to omit two of the three problematic reads.

the .08 is where you want to raise it to so we can see the second pic of that, and then the third pic in a day or so (should be back to matching above pics not still stuck at .08)

id vote that at .2 above, but as a static reading it doesnt help any. need to see motion

 

[brandon429]

100% Water Change

So in my previous thread, I had an ammonia issue that was out of hand. As suggested, I did a 100% WC and now i’m wondering when I should start adding fish back. If anyone has suggestions, let me know!

www.reef2reef.com

a perfect example


your thread here is a perfect example of how to cycle a reef, you verified ammonia control before adding fish vs adding fish first along with the bac (which still works, doesnt harm the fish, but if your bac was a bad mix the fish die from lack of verification)

If you can get us a clear motion set of pics plc001 Ill link your thread here to a very large cycling thread as an ideal dry start example people should be copying. nh3 motion verification before fish.

 

[plc001]

100% Water Change

So in my previous thread, I had an ammonia issue that was out of hand. As suggested, I did a 100% WC and now i’m wondering when I should start adding fish back. If anyone has suggestions, let me know!

www.reef2reef.com

a perfect example


your thread here is a perfect example of how to cycle a reef, you verified ammonia control before adding fish vs adding fish first along with the bac (which still works, doesnt harm the fish, but if your bac was a bad mix the fish die from lack of verification)

If you can get us a clear motion set of pics plc001 Ill link your thread here to a very large cycling thread as an ideal dry start example people should be copying. nh3 motion verification before fish.

Thanks you Brandon, any liquid ammonia that you recommend?

 

[SMSREEF]

I do not believe MB7 will help you cycle.
Look for bottles of nitrifying bacteria that will help cycle ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate.
The best I ever used was FritzZyme Turbostart 900.

 

[brandon429]

well done catch SMS for sure it will be interesting to see if that strain can move anything. +1 point for pre verification too, if those arent ok for cycling he saved his fish by waiting patiently. darn nice catch.


*SMS has pointed out some strains are for cleaning tanks, ridding invasions, and some are dedicated cycling bac. Its not impossible for cleaning bac/heterotrophs to eat up ammonia too in oxidation pathways but only that test will tell us. if your second pics stays hovering for days, those werent cycling bacteria. very handy thread now for a new reason.

the right type of ammonia to add is this one:

 

[brandon429]

DR. TIM'S AQUATICS Ammonium Chloride Solution for Cycling Aquariums, 2-oz bottle - Chewy.com

Buy Dr. Tim's Aquatics Ammonium Chloride Solution for Cycling Aquariums, 2-oz bottle at Chewy.com. FREE shipping and the BEST customer service!

www.chewy.com

 

[plc001]

I do not believe MB7 will help you cycle.
Look for bottles of nitrifying bacteria that will help cycle ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate.
The best I ever used was FritzZyme Turbostart 900.

Thanks, this is what I found on their site:

Medium- to High-nutrient Systems, or to seed Biological Filtration in new aquaria:
To effectively decrease the concentration of available nutrients and waste material in all marine and freshwater aquaria, add 5 ml (1 capful) per 25 US-gallons (94.6 L) [≈4 drops per gallon (3.8 L)] of aquarium water daily for the first two weeks of use; the impact that MicrōBacter7 has on an aquarium is most evident within this period. Turn protein skimming and UV-sterilization off for a period of 4 hours following addition to aquaria. A noticeable difference in water clarity is typically apparent within 30-minutes of dosing. Follow same instructions for new aquarium start-up. Thereafter, switch to “low-nutrient” dosage (below).

 

[SMSREEF]

Thanks, this is what I found on their site:

Medium- to High-nutrient Systems, or to seed Biological Filtration in new aquaria:
To effectively decrease the concentration of available nutrients and waste material in all marine and freshwater aquaria, add 5 ml (1 capful) per 25 US-gallons (94.6 L) [≈4 drops per gallon (3.8 L)] of aquarium water daily for the first two weeks of use; the impact that MicrōBacter7 has on an aquarium is most evident within this period. Turn protein skimming and UV-sterilization off for a period of 4 hours following addition to aquaria. A noticeable difference in water clarity is typically apparent within 30-minutes of dosing. Follow same instructions for new aquarium start-up. Thereafter, switch to “low-nutrient” dosage (below).

What I get from this excerpt is that it is not meant for starting a cycle, but reducing nutrients in an already cycled tank. However
I may be wrong.
I did use MB7 when I was cycling and it did not get me further along in reducing ammonia to nitrite.
It would be great if the manufacturers would list the bacteria on the ingredients.

 

[lion king]

What I don't see is an ammonia source, unless you create an ammonia source with ammonium chloride or food, there will be no cycle. I use biosprira as a bacteria source for my cycles, but each has their own preference. Read up on Dr Tim's fishless cycle, if you follow his method, you'll be cycled in about a week or so. You will need to monitor you're ammonia and nitrite, both deadly to fish.

 

[brandon429]

natural acquisition is possible


ammonia gets in by multiple fractional pathways, it’s why cycling charts don’t factor bottled bac or ammonia added. Adding some sure speeds things up though beyond natural waits

the charts are for fw where many more vectors exist for the right bacteria, but saltwater tanks in the 80s were also all dry sand and coral skeleton starts + water + wait only and they cycled after a while.

Was it enough though via natural means? Hard to say, those readings don’t look zero above (then again .2 is basically zero on thousands of these tests ran in post-cycled reef, hard to see)

Can’t wait to see oxidation testing, have never seen an mb7 cycle tested for oxidation motion up/down

 

[lion king]

I have used mb7 to cycle tanks, not near as effective as biospira, but does work. I always use an ammonia source, with dead rock and sand what you see in ammonia is likely within testing error. If it were even possible to get a cycle without an ammonia source, it would take forever to get a large enough colony to support life. Live rock is different because you get die off. Just add an ammonia source and be done in a couple of weeks.

 

[brandon429]

they have a very deep/fascinating thread in the chem forum right now about different modes of nitrification and they have mentioned tank cleaners vs nitrifiers dedicated Im having to re read the thread a few times to absorb it like one of Randy's articles.

 

[brandon429]

MnFish1 found this

A New Perspective on Microbes Formerly Known as Nitrite-Oxidizing Bacteria

Nitrite-oxidizing bacteria (NOB) catalyze the second step of nitrification, nitrite oxidation to nitrate, which is an important process of the biogeochemical nitrogen cycle. NOB were traditionally perceived as physiologically restricted organisms and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

= an example of an article im on my 3rd read to pick up lol love those.

I think there may be metacycling bacteria lol awesome

 

[ScottR]

I seriously find cycling tanks too much overthought. It’s just so easy these days. Bacteria in a bottle is magic. I use MB7 for cycling. I also use live rock so it’s cheating. But in my 130g, live rock and MB7 and fish 2 days later.

 

[plc001]

Ok, added Dr. Tim's Aquatics Ammonium Chloride per instructions. Did not follow Brandon's instruction because I forgot! 4 drops per gallon and its pretty green. Hoping I did not screw up!!!!

 

[brandon429]

That's fine and it's very hard to be precise with titration kits. Won't harm at all. Let's see if any degree lighter now shows up in 2 days. If so, cycled.
Still a great test we can reference the pics are great angle.

 

[plc001]

That's fine and it's very hard to be precise with titration kits. Won't harm at all. Let's see if any degree lighter now shows up in 2 days. If so, cycled
Still a great test we can reference the pics are great angle.

Ok, thanks for your advice and I will report Saturday!

 

[plc001]

Well, not what I was hoping. 48 hours later. What should be my next step?

 

[brandon429]

We can wait weeks longer if required, that's how old school cycling works when not using seneye for ammonia. We wait weeks and weeks until the tests grant permission. Nitrite must be zero per old rules, not a hint allowed.

In my cycling threads we don't use those tests to guide our start date we use timeframes from cycling charts that show when ammonia is ready. After a large water change to export nitrate if shown, your reef would be off and running.

Part of old cycle rules is extra retail purchase. You will now be compelled to buy more bacteria though you already bought some

It'll clear eventually


post a nitrate reading if poss