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I am so glad I pulled out of this one six months ago. I predicted that they would delay it again and they have not disappointed. I will make another prediction based on my experience in the field and that is that they will not be releasing them to the public in Feb 2021. Two months is not sufficient time to beta test a product like this. If even just one hardware problem occurs in January they will have to replace all the Beta units and reset the clock. You typically want a minimum time of 6 months of Beta testing on a product like this and that's assuming that GHL has already had half a dozen of the new probes being tested in house from 7 months ago. If your going to give a one year guarantee on the probes you better be sure that they last at least one year and change, if not your going to have to give away thousands of expensive probes for free to calm irate customers.This cracks me up... Feb 2021.... Next....
Siggy, this is somewhat different. Neptune didn't take hundreds of thousands of dollars in pre-order sales on the back of a ready product just waiting for units to be built and then a year later advise they still don't have a working product. Remember, this is the 5th revision of a promised release date with money in hand.This is not much different from the Trident, "Fake it till you make it" it will come, they know it has to be perfect.
Not to mention the supply/release black eye that Neptune got.;Blackeye
Ya the trident. A product that’s out and works just fine.I don't think this statement is true in the long run... you're talking about a controller when we're discussing an automated tester. If by glad you went apex you meant trident, then I think that the ionD is going to beat it 10 times out of 10.
Most of the frustration isn't that they wont eventually have a good product, I think it stems from being kept in the dark and them hiding behind the approval of a patent. The longer GHL maintains radio silence, the better the ionD has to be right out the gate. It's a tall order and every day that passes raises expectations even higher. By the time this does roll out we will expect a flawless experience that I don't think they will be able to provide.
Hopefully I'm wrong... I they blow my socks off.
You regret that the comments were closed on the facebook post, it would be a shame if the same would happen here.
Let's stay constructive and positive
Gaël
I am being constructive, offering GHL the chance to respond and them failing to do so or locking threads on Facebook is not constructive. I hope the product is great and works as expected, I hope GHL learn from this and are more open going forward although their behaviour doesn’t suggest that.Hi,
Their communication is probably not perfect, but it is not easy to announce things when there is uncertainty and that all does not go as desired.
You are assuming a lot, probably too much ... what tells you that these beta field tests were not long planned and postponed too?
I think there is no point in rehash again and again.
They are well aware of our disappointments and would really have liked things to turn out differently.
I suggest to come back to the subject of this topic which is the video of the IOND running and therefore wait patiently for the patent to be validated and the video disclosed
You regret that the comments were closed on the facebook post, it would be a shame if the same would happen here.
Let's stay constructive and positive
Gaël
Not defending, but admittedly somewhat defending... for the last several months the material, technology, manufacturing sector has been to put it bluntly totally screwed. It is not as simple as making a couple phone calls and shopping for the lowest price. There are specs that (must) be 100% matched. So you are working weeks or months ahead. Hell most are a year aged in this. So say you’ve done this, now your source is shutdown. Do you try to find another source? How many companies can make what you want. What if there are only 2 companies in the world that can make what you want? The second one can make it, but, because of the short notice it’s 3x the cost. Do you wait out the 1st source that could be open before the 2nd is? What if what you ordered has been made and shipped but is caught in customs? I could go on with these. Do you give these updates that go back and forth multiple times in a week to every customer? Sometimes silence is the best answer because the one answering couldn’t tell you because the variables have become so vast. They have been running it for awhile, at a manufacturing company you don’t just run 1 You run multiples. But they are engineers, how does the average person do with operating it. They changed the operation to use different amounts and pump qty. I payed for the newest version not the outdated version. Then going through patenting thrown in to the mix... I’m not sure of how that works in Europe the US is a pain and expensive so I’d assume they are similar. I’ve worked with German engineers a lot and they keep things close to the vest anyway. Even more so if your literal name is on the product and company. Germans are not boisterous and as forward as Americans either anyway.Im disappointed about the delay but that is not the real issue, the lack of updates, the dubious reasons for delay are. Sourcing material maybe an issue but they would certainly have known months ago they hadn’t sent out units for beta testing and that testing would take months meaning it was never going to be ready for autumn, keeping customers that have already paid for a product up to date is not unreasonable and would have avoided a lot of the negativity. Avoiding direct reasonable questions and blocking commenting on Facebook posts is just poor customer service
That would be fine if they didn't put out pictures and videos touting that they had everything to make the product, they dangled the automation video as if they were on the cusp of putting them in boxes and ready to be shipped. So supply wasn't an issue.Europe was more or less in lockdown mode for several months during the spring. Borders was closed - supply lines was broken. Many large companies was more or less closed - not because they did not sell but because of lack of components. Deliver just in time is the rule in Europe- Transport capacity was used for transport of needed components in the health care. 90 % of the airplanes was grounded.
The ION director is an advanced equipment with key components from specialists all around the world - it is enough that only one components support line get broken - and you can´t assembly the equipment.
I´m not sure that you really understand how this affect the whole society in Europe and the industry. And - as it looks for the moment - there is a new shut down round the corner - it has already starts in most of Europe's countries.
As 70 years old - the most important for me is my safety and that I will survive until the day I can see the ION director working at my job - It can take the time it needs.
And if you have ordered and not want to wait - just cancel the order and get your refund. That has been a possibility since the first delay
Sincerely Lasse
I agree lots of issues that have resulted in the delay, however good communication and showing paying customers a little respect costs nothing. I’m yet to decide if I’ll cancel or not, whether I do will have no impact on me (I have a trident) or GHL.Not defending, but admittedly somewhat defending... for the last several months the material, technology, manufacturing sector has been to put it bluntly totally screwed. It is not as simple as making a couple phone calls and shopping for the lowest price. There are specs that (must) be 100% matched. So you are working weeks or months ahead. Hell most are a year aged in this. So say you’ve done this, now your source is shutdown. Do you try to find another source? How many companies can make what you want. What if there are only 2 companies in the world that can make what you want? The second one can make it, but, because of the short notice it’s 3x the cost. Do you wait out the 1st source that could be open before the 2nd is? What if what you ordered has been made and shipped but is caught in customs? I could go on with these. Do you give these updates that go back and forth multiple times in a week to every customer? Sometimes silence is the best answer because the one answering couldn’t tell you because the variables have become so vast. They have been running it for awhile, at a manufacturing company you don’t just run 1 You run multiples. But they are engineers, how does the average person do with operating it. They changed the operation to use different amounts and pump qty. I payed for the newest version not the outdated version. Then going through patenting thrown in to the mix... I’m not sure of how that works in Europe the US is a pain and expensive so I’d assume they are similar. I’ve worked with German engineers a lot and they keep things close to the vest anyway. Even more so if your literal name is on the product and company. Germans are not boisterous and as forward as Americans either anyway.
My money is already spent so I’m not missing it. If they were to go out business then that’s a whole different game. We live in a whole society where you can order on Amazon and have it tomorrow. I’ve worn both of the shoes in this deal. The best you can do is what they have said. If you want your money back then you can do that. how long was the trident talked about and touted? How many iterations of it? Ghl took preorders. God forbid you have it so people aren’t buying 3 to just scam triple prices on eBay or the like. Do you want them to send you a gen5 Radion that you have to disassemble and fix out of the box because they are cracked? Mindstream with no wheel? How about pump with cracked volutes? I could keep going on with faulty brand new aquarium products that have to market that you are the guinea pig and beta tester. This hobby is one of patience. Some have never bought a $100 coral to watch it do nothing for a year then suddenly it decides hey I’ll finally grow uncontrollably.
What Sisterlemonpot said is exactly the problem.That would be fine if they didn't put out pictures and videos touting that they had everything to make the product, they dangled the automation video as if they were on the cusp of putting them in boxes and ready to be shipped. So supply wasn't an issue.
Then the excuse became, we're waiting on a patent, once that gets approved then look out! You'll have videos coming from everywhere you wont know what to do with all the videos....they're going to be the best videos! Quite frankly, no one makes a better video...
Now we're back to it was and is supply chain issues. Which is it? Both cant be the issue. They seem to be excuses to fit the narrative at the time. What can we say to buy more time?
If the videos automation were meant to deceive us from the beginning, then the question becomes, "what are they hiding?" "What are they afraid of?"
That's my chief complaint. Covid crippled everything I get that, and it's quite possible that this pandemic bought them more time and sympathy from customers. But when they start over analyzing outcomes of a potential message to the customer they start to fear the worst scenarios. "If we go with excuse X, then Y might be the outcome" No excuse would've yielded good response, they were trying to find the one with the least amount of repercussions. Where they messed up is changing their excuse. They should've hedged their bets and stuck with the truth from the beginning. Instead they got caught in their own web of deception.
I'll venture to guess that their chief fear for Y was not to cause a public panic that resulted in everyone demanding their money back, that would've forced further delays or even worse halted the entire project.
I dont think they needed to patronize us, theres more respect when you're open and honest from the beginning, it would've beared more fruit in the long run.
Instead what they did is shameful.
Hi Lasse@Sisterlimonpot If you do not think it exist - do not buy it. The way you describe the company - maybe that´s common in the US - but it is not common in Europe. If they say that they have shot a video in september but will not get it publish yet - I trust that statement.
If you are so dissatisfied with GHL why not sell all your GHL equipment and switch to Apex instead? You are a dissatisfied GHL customer, right or......
Sincerely Lasse
You regret that the comments were closed on the facebook post, it would be a shame if the same would happen here.
Let's stay constructive and positive
Gaël
It's more complex than boiling it down to the company and their competitors. I always dismiss arguments that if you don't like it use the competitor, or if you thought this situation was bad then look at how the competitor did when they promised "said" product. I view that as deflection and an attempt to dissuade conversation.@Sisterlimonpot If you do not think it exist - do not buy it. The way you describe the company - maybe that´s common in the US - but it is not common in Europe. If they say that they have shot a video in september but will not get it publish yet - I trust that statement.
If you are so dissatisfied with GHL why not sell all your GHL equipment and switch to Apex instead? You are a dissatisfied GHL customer, right or......
Sincerely Lasse